BulldogDriver
-
Posts
437 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by BulldogDriver
-
-
Try to find a service group that does commercial/industrial vehicles. Make sure they understand the driveshaft is for a special application and let them know the proper phasing. They know how to balance properly in my experience.
Ray
-
The shims are 1/16” or something close to that.
I did a lot of research on this.
Back in the day Buick had a kit to check the alignment of the drive shaft. I believe Tom T. has one or maybe Jim Cannon I can’t remember who had posted they had one. Anyway with the technology we have today, and the fact that an Alignment kit is not in everyone’s tool kit, the pdf that I linked to gives the theory and shows what you need to do for a proper alignment. Same theory back than so the only thing that’s different is how to check for alignment.
The digital gauge is very accurate and you have to be precise on making sure of the pinion flange being vertical and the car needs to be as it would be if ready to drive on the road. I used 4 tire ramps that were the same height. Don’t forget to zero the gauge before taking your readings. I used the frame were the center carrier bearing is positioned.
If someone is going to do this could they take readings before they change anything. As I did a transmission swap to a 4L60E, my readings wouldn’t be much good for a Dynaflow of ST300/400.
Ray
-
Are you sure about Russ not having the 4L60E adapter? Still shows on his site and he has mentioned it to people in other posts recently.
Ray
-
Crest wrench that fits the nut will work. I made sure the wrench was seated all the way on the nut and let the center bearing spin with the wrench. Should also be a sleeve that will lock the nut in place. You would’ve had to bend the edge away from the nut to loosen it. Don't forget the shims under the support. Original ones would stay on the bolts and slide up into the cars frame as one. Might want to use new bolts, lock washers and flats.
Ray
-
Yes that is true from my experience. The only thing I did was experiment with the height of the rear transmission mount and the center bearing. Ended up using the same height at the center bearing and made the front shaft 1.5*.
Ray
-
Ed I believe it would differ between transmissions and the rear mounts. I modified my original rear mount and had to move it back 3” which in itself was not a hard thing to do. The holes for mounting were 3” on center and tack welding a bar to 2 3/8” nuts at 3” on center you can fit it up into the frame without any modifications. I made a template to drill the hole to move the mount back by using the original 2 holes to keep the mount on the same plane as it was originally. The mount had to be heavy modified to clear the transmission pan and relocate the transmission mount. Also strengthen the the mount with c-channel. Probably overkill but I won’t need to worry about it. This is not the finale product but it gives you an idea as to what had to be done to make it work.
Ray
-
Phasing on the 63 driveshaft is 101* not 105*.
I have swapped a 4L60E transmission into my 63 Riviera using the original drive shaft. All u-joints were replaced with Spicer brand. I had problems with poor materials and tolerances used in the Moog brand. The front stub shaft had to be shortened so I took it to a local commercial truck service center and made sure they knew of the 101* phasing. These businesses work on driveshafts regularly and understand why things are done a certain way. The driveshaft was shortened and balanced with no problems.
As Buick in the day used a specific tool for alignment of the driveshaft and only a few lucky souls have access to that tool, I did some research on driveshaft alignment and by using this publication that explains why the alignment angles are used, was able to get mine done without vibration. The only extra tool needed to do this is a digital angle gauge.
Wixey Digital Angle Gauge Type 2 with Magnetic Base and BacklightSpicer drivetrain publication:
https://www.waterousco.com/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/content/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
The illustration that I used for alignment is attached.
Before you remove the driveshaft I would suggest taking measurements of the angles as originally installed. You would need to know the angle for the engine, front shaft, rear shaft and pinion flange. I did this with the car sitting level on 4 tire ramps. I zeroed the gauge off of the frame were the center bearing is mounted. The engine angle was taken on the flat area by the starter, the angle of the shafts directly on the tubes. Make sure you have the gauge perpendicular to the floor, if not it will read a different angle. You will need to release the driveshaft from the pinion flange and the flanges u-joint mount point also needs to be perpendicular to the floor so you will have to jack the differential up to do that. I used a deep socket that fit the diameter of the u-joint mount point to give me a flat and accurate mount spot for the gauge. Also perpendicular for the gauge there.
The front shaft angle is to make sure you have some angle greater than zero and less than 3*. Mine was 1.5* and is probably not what you will have as I have a different transmission with different mounting height for the rear transmission mount. The shims at the center bearing will let you change that angle. The rear shaft angle and the pinion flange angle are what need to be the same. The gauge will give you a reading that is 90* different that the shafts, you will have to add or subtract making sure you know whether the gauge is reading up or down. The gauge will show an arrow. Mine matched was without adjustment to the top mount arm.
This took some time to do but can be done without a helper. The math of driveshaft alignment hasn’t changed so what the guys didn’t have back in the day was the digital gauge and that is what makes doing this today without the “tool” viable.
If you do use this please post your original angle readings as I didn’t have that when I did this. I had the engine out before I decided to do this.I also have a spare 64/65 driveshaft with pinion flange in case I need it but with rebuild parts for the cv joint impossible to source, I think the original driveshaft should be looked at as a viable solution first.
Ray
-
1
-
-
That’s one of the best sources for reproduction parts for our cars. James is easy to deal with, he verifies everything he sells is the correct part. Go to BestOfferCounts on eBay for all that he has to offer.
Ray
-
1
-
-
Google their address than look at the street view. Probably not a manufacturer.
Ray
-
Heater vent. Was controlled up on the console in 63. Don't know if it was on 64/65.
Ray
-
https://www.jamcosuspension.com/product/1963-69-buick-riviera-power-brake-conversion-pbb6369
or something like that. Will need to rework the brake lines going to the proportion valve.
Ray
-
New carrier bearing assemblies are available without having to rebuild yours. BestOfferCounts usually has them or look on eBay. I’d check the drive shaft throughly while its out and also look at the trans shaft seal. Hopefully the CV joints on your driveshaft are in good shape. Rebuild parts for them are scarce.
Ray
-
1
-
-
Should be able to reach the back of the radio with the ashtray assembly removed. You’ll need to pull the vent hoses off the vents to get to the backend.
Ray
-
Better make sure it’s not a posi rear before you go playing with it with the motor doing the turning.
Just saying.
Ray
-
1
-
-
Air filter is Wix 42092.
Do a search for ‘springs’ on the forum and see what everyone has to say about the different vendors. A couple of them will build to your requirements.
Shocks are a bit of a challenge. Monroe were an option but may not be now. Top of the line option are Bilsteins and are still available. They are not cheap.
Search for ‘front end rebuild’ on the forum. Some parts are better then others and most kits are not the best for all parts.
Good luck,
Ray
-
1 set of shields and 2 sets of clips.
-
All,
I had posted in one of the other topics that when replacing your AC unit with a Vintage Air Gen4 evaporator in a 63 Riviera it created an issue of not enough depth for the original radio. It relates to the defroster vents being in the center of the dash rather then on the sides as with 64/65 cars. The only solution I have been about to find that allows a radio to fit and still look somewhat ‘period’ was from Restsound. Their units are 4.3” deep and that will clear the evaporator.
There is an issue with their units that I feel everyone who is considering using the radio should know. The display is not very bright when exposed to normal sunlight as in “you can’t see the display”! The radio is in its installed place. Attached are 2 photos. One shows the display inside my garage with the garage door open and the next is the car pulled outside. The multi function gauge is from Dakota Digital and can be seen very clearly in all brightness’s. I have discussed this with Restsound and even sent the unit back to them. They informed me they are unable to test it out in the daylight and set it back as it was sent to them. After finding this issue I did a more in depth search on the web and found several references to this problem from other enthusiasts, didn’t come up when I researched the radio before buying it. This has been brought to their attention before and it looks like they are ok with this.
The unit functions as stated and other than this issue I think it is a solution if you go with Vintage Air AC.
Ray
-
1
-
-
Zimm, want to do a solid for the forum? Most if not all of the forum don’t have access to the original Buick special tools used to verify the drivetrain is aligned properly. To verify my drivetrain alignment I had to use a modern approach. What I did was use one of these :
WR300 Wixey Digital Angle Gauge Type 2 with Magnetic Base and Backlight
along with a lot of reading of this publication from Spicer. Illustration #9 is what I believe the Buick tools verify are within specs without the use of ‘degree’ tools that would have been expensive, bulky, and hard to read under a car back in the day. I believe that the angle gauge of today will give a more accurate alignment.
https://www.waterousco.com/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/content/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
This is how I did the procedure. After putting my ‘63 up on car tire stands I set my weight to a average amount that I would drive around with, I took measurements at the starter pad for the engine’s angle, front shaft angle, and pinion yoke. For differential i used the pinion yoke. For that reading I had to pull the driveshaft loose and aligned the yoke vertically and stuck a deep socket with the same diameter as the ujoint in it’s place to get an accurate reading. To zero the digital gauge for initial angle, I used the ‘X’ of the frame where the center carrier bearing is mounted.
I’d post my findings but unless someone is installing a 4L60E transmission, the numbers won’t be much help.
Ray
-
1
-
-
I know these aren’t cheap but I used them on mine and was a perfect fit as everything I’ve used fron Steele. The clips came from Cars. If I remember correctly had to get two sets.
https://www.steelerubber.com/dust-shield-filler-kit-70-2796-45
Just saying,Ray
-
1
-
-
I’ve looked but couldn’t find a topic on replacing the wheel/bearing that is on the throttle arm and makes contact with the back of the throttle pedal.
Suggestions?
Ray
-
Yes they are original to the car and are Brown Line. Doing a full interior replacement. Waiting on parts from Just Dashes.
Ray
-
Factory would have installed the seat as a unit with trim installed. I just finished installing my driver’s seat with the frame separated from the power track assembly. I had already installed the track.
Not easy to get to the 4 bolts that hold both units together. I also had to remove the top trim piece closest to the driver’s door to get to those bolts.
Move the seat all the way ‘forward’ and if a power seat, raised all the way ‘up’. 3 bolts in the rear and should slide rearward. If not loosen the 4 bolts at the front. If power make sure you disconnect the power plug to the motor.
Ray
-
1
-
-
Tom
Thanks for the detailed explanation. All of the reading I’ve do on the forum has related to the optimistic numbers for compression on a nailhead.
I had a chance to think about the low compression numbers and realized that I hadn’t set the throttle wide open. A senior moment, the numbers are now in the 170# range. I feel a lot better about that.
Was able to start the engine up for the first time in almost 2 years. Did a bunch of stuff over that time; SS exhaust, posi rear, fix stupid leaks, finish AC replacement, rebuild console, replace interior.
Might even get a chance to drive it by summer!
Ray
-
1
-
-
Tom it was a stock rebuild. Cast pistons and not sure about the cam. Engine had been rebuilt about 20 years before but it sat on a dealership’s showroom all that time. I suspect they started the engine to move it around and nothing else. Cylinder walls were glazed so had them deglazed and new moly rings.
I thought stock engine was 165-175 psi. Did the rebuild with Best gaskets. I guess the extra thickness of the head gaskets have that great of a decrease in pressure.
Engine ran good before deglazing, drove it cross country 3 years ago, and only noticed a problem when I pulled the intake to do the dual plane mod and block the heat ports to the carb.
So tearing the front end off the engine isn’t going to be of much benefit on this build. I would rather not do something that doesn’t have much benefit.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Ray
Pinion Angle
in Buick Riviera
Posted
This publication has all of the information on driveshaft design and reasons for setting the angles. Somewhere on the net I read what a vibration on acceleration and deceleration meant and how to adjust the angles to correct for the vibration. I’m on the road the next couple weeks and will try to post those posts but may not be till I return home.
https://www.waterousco.com/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/content/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf
If I remember correctly Buick was using CV joints in other models in 1963 and moved over to them in 64 Rivieras. I would think the shorter front driveshaft for ST 400 transmissions would be the deciding factor in this.
I have a 64 shaft in case vibration was a problem on my application with a 4L60E transmission but has not been a problem as of yet. All of my u joints and bearings are new and the best quality available to us. I would think that making sure these parts are at the best condition possible is the most important thing to get the issuer resolved. Going to a repair shop that works on commercial and industrial vehicles is the answer to getting a driveshaft balanced properly today. Phasing is a key component also. 63 shafts are phased at 101* if I remember correctly.
If you make a hybrid shaft, I am not sure how you go about coming up with the correct phasing for application. Maybe the GM engineer mentioned earlier could shine some light on the subject and I would like to here what they have to say.
Also I don’t remember if I mentioned that the 63 center carrier bearing housing on my installation had to cut down to the height that 64/65 carrier bearing is. That can be done without hurting the rubber on the housing if your careful when welding the base back on.
Ray