BulldogDriver
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Posts posted by BulldogDriver
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Google “how to remove water stains from veneer”.
Ray
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Looks pretty much stock. It’s a stainless steel system with a two piece long pipe coming off the headers. Easier to ship and gave some wiggly room for installation but you install two more clamps. What I removed was not stock and the hangers were cobbled together so I had nothing to compare to. Bought a new set of Waldon hangers for GS. Once I had the parts assembled and aligned, it looks stock other than all pipes being 2 14” and muffler is not oval but round. Price was good especially for a 316 SS system. Should never rust. Went with resonator eliminators as I have a fuel filter in that area, was going with EFI originally but decided carb was a better fit for me and didn’t want to re-plumb fuel lines. Exhaust that was on the car didn’t have resonators either.
My plan was/is to have an updated gen 1 Riviera that when you look at the exterior and interior it looks mostly stock. Open up the hood and the upgrades show. Performance and handling is as good as possible using original suspension design with updates. 4l60E transmission, Vintage Air A/C, Rostra cruise control, hidden oil pressure/volts/temp gauge and usb power connector, disc brakes, sway bar front and back, springs, Bilstein shocks and variable ratio steering box. If you remember, I drove this piece back to Raleigh NC from Anaheim CA after it sat on a Buick dealership’s showroom for almost 20 years. I don’t normally talk about the upgrades as I don’t want to offend the purists on the forum unless someone is looking for advice on what I’ve done. I had two original one owner 65’s that were lost in a fire back in 1980. Would’ve kept at least one of them.
Would like to get photos but can’t get down on the ground for a couple months. Stress fracture to my left femur and on crutches. Can’t bend my leg and NO weight on it so I can’t do anything on the car at this point. Was hoping to finish the interior enough to drive it by end of this month but if I’m lucky, maybe by spring at this point.
Getting old sucks!
Ray
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14 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:
Ray,
How did you put 2 1/4 inch tailpipes on a GS muffler which has 2 inch tailpipe stubs? Or did you use a muffler other than the factory GS muffler?
Tom
Tom,
The system I used is from Classic Exhaust. They make the entire system so I guess they can size the outlets to their specs. All clamps were 2 1/4” and the hangers purchased from Walden Exhaust had to be opened for the clamps going to the muffler. It was the only pair that attached to the clamps at the base.
From my reading, original mufflers are very rare. My car is a driver and I went with what would look original at a glance but would keep me from climbing under it for a very long time.
Ray
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My previous post was not to be construed to say that the factory had sized the axle pipe for a GS engine. Why as it appears, Buick elected to use various pipe sizes throughout the entire system one can only guess at this point in time.
My car is not a GS model and has a 401 that is bored 0.060” over. So I’m around a 412 now. Whether good or bad, I elected to put a GS exhaust system in it and as previously stated is 2 1/4” end to end. I had no problem getting the clearances noted in the shop manual after the adjustments noted in my previous post. Tom T. noted to the same adjustments in one of his posts in another exhaust thread.
Can’t imagine any of this really matters much with these cars. It looks as if the output numbers for the GS were done with the smaller axle pipes and until now, that I’ve noticed, no one has brought the smaller pipes up in a thread before.
Maybe Tom T. could elaborate on his exhaust system.
Ray
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Tom, I did read that the tail pipes were 2” on a GS somewhere here on the forum.
The over axle pipe being 2” could be true being the resonators and the muffler are different for GS. They could have sized those parts for the axle pipe. I’ll look in the parts book next time I hobble up to the study. Stress fractured a leg and stairs are a once a day thing for the next month or so. Glad I got the exhaust system done before this happened.
Ray
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Just finished installing a full GS stainless steel system from Classic Exhaust that was 2 1/4” end to end. Had to tweak one long pipe’s bend and shorted the resonator eliminators by 1 1/2”. Also had to make new exhaust studs that were longer to get the header flanges to fit. Couldn’t find 1/2” exhaust studs that worked. My guess on the manifolds is Buick knew the Nailhead was short for this world and just left things as they were. Probably thought the larger diameter of the exhaust pipes would be enough for the few years left for that block.
Ray
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I recently replaced all of my u joints and also had trouble with c clips. Both were Moog brand. Replaced them with SKF brand, the ones with blue spacers on the caps, UJS UJ234,from NAPA. Also got a spare set from Spicer 5-795X, they seem to the better made ones. Tom T would know the best to use. There is a way to check alignment without the tools.
The shop manual give measurements using tools and procedures that I didn’t have access to so after researching I used the guidelines in this publication https://assets.wellertruck.com/reference-materials/installation-guides/driveline-installation-j3311-1-dssp-spicer.pdf using this digital angle gauge http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/#wr300type2. Gauge wasn’t available back then.
In my case my angle on the forward shaft was 1.5* down and that was what the pinion shaft flange was already at. I did use the shims that were originally at the center housing. Try to achieve the same angle for front shaft and pinion flange. I zeroed the gauge on the frame where the center bearing is bolted. Mine came out to .01* difference.Ray
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BestOfferCounts has rebuild kits.
Ray
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From what I was able to research, the pinion flange is a direct replacement. You might be able to tap the holes in the flange, I’d check that before using bolts and nuts. I can’t remember the difference in height between the Dyna and the 4L60E mounts but it was enough to explain why the 64/65 center housing was 1 1/4” shorter. Difference in length of the transmissions was also a factor as it changed the angle of the front driveshaft. Needed to keep the angle of the front driveshaft proper.
I found that if I used my 63 trans crossmember, shifting it back 3” which was the same spacing between the bolts on the member, I was able to get the trans mount to work after modifications to clear the trans pan and fit in the new place on the frame. I had looked at using the 64/65 member but it would have been a challenge due to relocating the holes where access to nuts wasn’t feasible. Others have done it on 200r4’s which its mount is another 3” further back. I also don’t think the holes in the frame for the crossmember were flat plain to the frame. Didn’t look that way on the 64/65 crossmember.
Ray
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Sender is PT64 and uses a PT139 pigtail. From a previous post. Works for me.
Ray
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Ed,
That looks to be a 64/65 flange. 63 flange was u bolts directly to a u joint. I just replaced the pinion seal on a posi trac carrier along with outer axle bearings and seals on my 63.
I have that flange and a 64/65 driveshaft in case I have problems with the 63 setup and my 4L60E transmission conversion. The flange is tapped for 7/16 course bolts. All parts are original to a 64.
Looking at John B’s photo it appears it is not tapped with threads. I wonder if that is a correct flange for Rivieras. Mine came off a Riviera from BestOfferCounts and I picked it up directly from James.
Ray
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5 hours ago, steelman said:
3/4” is plenty of edge distance for a 3/8” hole. Rule is 1.5 x D, measured from the centerline of the hole. So, 3/4” in this case is 2 x D. Plus there is no force in that direction in this condition. If you have access, redrill the holes.
You are drilling 2 holes in that 3/4” area. Doesn’t meet the rule.
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16 hours ago, telriv said:
Dennis,
Like I said in the PM all you really have to do is drill the two holes for the '64-'65 center support. It will be excatly in line with the original bolts for the '63. The frame is thick enough to be able to perform this small mod without doing any harm to anything else.
Since the ENTIRE drivetrain has been completely swapped out in essence you have a '64.
Don't put yourself through the aggravation & all that may entail.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Tom T.
I had considered doing the same but I didn’t see it as an easier solution for the conversion. The housing spacing between the bolts is 2 1/4” and 1 1/2” which gave a 3/4” space to drill 2 3/8” or 5/16” holes, can’t remember the size. Not much metal to support the housing as it is slotted. Also the original setup seems to allow some adjustment forward and backwards, I guess for alignment to the transmission. On my 63 frame I would’ve had to open the hole on the lowest layer of the frame to allow space to get to the upper part of the frame to drill the new holes and put a socket on the bolt. I would’ve also had to come up with a way make sure the alignment of the new holes would keep the housing aligned the same as the original holes.
I can screwup a lot of housings before it would even come close in time and money to the fix problems that could be caused to the frame if that had been the path I went. Pretty hard to get all that stuff right when you only have 28” between the floor and frame.
Cutting the housing and fabricating a base plate took all of 30 mins. $20 to get it welded. Others had done this same procedure.
Just my situation.
Ray
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Dennis,
Your response is what I thought was the case. The 1 1/4” difference between the 2 housings could induce enough angle to be causing undue load on the center bearing, causing it to fail and thus the squealing. The length of a 64/65 transmission is longer than the 63, as is a 4L60E and the reason I had to modify the housing for my installation. My front shaft had to shortened by 10” if I remember correctly as yours would have been the correct length.
I think the easiest way would be to use a 64/65 housing, cut the base off and weld a new piece with nuts spaced for the 63 frame or tap threads into a thicker piece, 1/4- 3/8” should do it.
The shop manual give measurements using tools and procedures that I didn’t have access to so after researching I used the guidelines in this publication https://assets.wellertruck.com/reference-materials/installation-guides/driveline-installation-j3311-1-dssp-spicer.pdf using this digital angle gauge http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/#wr300type2.
In my case my angle on the forward shaft was 1.5* down and that was what the pinion shaft flange was already at. I did use the shims that were originally at the center housing. You probably won’t need to worry about that with a CV joint on the rear shaft but still try to achieve the same angle for front shaft and pinion flange.If you decide to rebuild the whole driveshaft, I would suggest to shy away from Moog u joints. I had 2 of them have slop in the caps that allowed a pronounced looseness when installed. Spicer or SKF were a lot better in my case.
Ray
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So, lets go back to the original post. Is there a symptom (vibration, noise, etc) that started this thread. Reason I’m asking is the center bearing housing doesn’t have the same height between 63 and 64/65. I converted a 63 driveshaft to be behind a 4L60E and had to shorten the 63 housing to the same height as a 64/65. You can’t use a 64 housing because of bolt pattern. No easy way to modify the frame mount. If vibration is the problem shortening of a 63 to a 64/65 height should help. Whoever does the job has to know how to deal with non removable rubber being a part of the housing. I’m bringing this up because that might have been done to yours. Housing for 63 should be around 5 1/4” high and 64/65 around 4”. With a CV joint in the rear it may not be that critical.
Setting the geometry of your drivetrain to a 64 would be the correct alignment.Ray
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Looks like a 64 or 65 driveshaft was installed with a 63 center bearing support housing sub’ed to fit the car’s frame. If I remember correctly the bearing is the same for 63-65.
Tom T. can correct me but I think rebuild kits are still available for the CV’s but not the center ball.
Tom T. my 63 didn’t have a CV on the driveshaft, only u-joints.
Ray
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Questions
1. What transmission is in the car,
2. Do you have the driveshaft out of the car? If so post a photo of it.
The center bearing housing for the driveshaft is different in height and the bolts are spaced different between 63 and 64/65. If your car has an original Dynaflow transmission than the driveshaft should be the original configuration. If it is a later year transmission than most likely has been modified but you can still rebuild the driveshaft without too much problems.
Ray
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I agree with Bernie. Only reason I swapped mine for a 4L60E was boredom. Covid made me do it! Along with a bunch of other enhancements. Drove cross country with the Dynaflow at 70-80 mph, 12 mpg and it did leak a little, but not enough to add any in the 3000 miles home. Maybe Bernies guy is close enough to let him straighten the Dynaflow out. $2400 seems cheap in todays world. My conversion is at least double that not including my time which is a whole bunch more than 18 hours.
Ray
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Drive shaft and trans mount are also different. Have to relocate mount holes for the mount. Either keeping the dynaflow or going to a 300/400 you would probably have to rebuild them also. Most likely cheaper to get the dynaflow worked on.
Ray
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Thanks again Bill going to pick these up tomorrow.
Ray
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Thanks Bill
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FYI Rock Auto shows 4 sources for that year.
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Ok so I am getting ready to recover the 63 seats with Clarks covers and discovered that mine were not original to the car. The pivot shafts for the bottom and back frames had a mismatched of parts and rather then describe what I found, could someone tell me the correct parts that are used on the pivot shafts? I do have new caps for the ends.
Ray
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As I understand, head bolts for Nailheads are reusable as long as they are in good condition and not stretched (over torqued). They are not TTY (torque to yield) as used in modern motors. Supplies of these bolts are getting slim, I just bought a set so I had spares for my backup motor.
Ray
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1965 Gran Sport exhaust
in Buick Riviera
Posted
The axle pipes that came with my installation weren’t flattened just bent to conform to the area. Looked like the ones removed.
Ray