rob.webb

My family used to own this coupe, and we put in this engine. It is a 135 engine block, with at 35-XXXX number, but we put 1930 cylinders, heads, valve, gear, manifolds, and cooling on it. I believe we also used a 1931 Warner 4 speed transmission, but I'm not sure. It was used as a driver before we sold it. It was running well when we sold it. I had just used it at the 2014 WesTrek.

I'm going to be there... You know about my parent's open house?

I'd buy a set if you make them. What do you think the cost would be?

Just got this from Paul Fitz, reposting here with his permission. I'm pretty sure the problem is that the spark is too advanced now that I hear his explanation. Will post what I find out when Eric retards the spark. Rob hi. Starter motors that draw too much current and burn up are usually being over loaded as far as too much strain on them from load. It has nothing to do with cables being too big. Electric motors naturally draw more current when they get more load put on them. Load them enough and they burn out with all the current they will draw to deal with any higher then normal loads. If you put an amp meter on the starter cable it should only be drawing about 120-130 amps for a motor that is broken-in. A newly rebuilt motor will draw a bit more, but no where near what a Franklin starter motor can’t handle. The Series 14 motor is higher compression, but not so high that it’s going to affect the starter. They do fine until you get well over 7:1. I rebuilt Dale Balderson’s 30 Pirate to exactly a measured 7:1 compression ratio and there’s no problems starting it. How easily does that Ser 14 motor turn over with a hand crank ? If you can turn the motor over using one hand on the crank, it’s not a mechanical problem with the motor putting too much strain on the starter. Is the ignition timing way too advanced ? Some guys try to get more power out by bumping the advance way up. That doesn’t work on Franklins. It just beats up on the connection rods, and if too far advanced, can beat up on the starter motor because the spark is going off too soon as the pistons are coming up on compression. Too early a spark makes the motor want to turn backwards against the starter motor and the current draw of fighting against goes way up. With the spark plugs out and the throttle open, how easily does the starter turn the motor over ? If it’s still struggling and pulling a lot of current, the starter drive may be binding, the armature shaft may be bent, or there’s still circuit problems inside the starter motor. The foot switch contacts may be badly burned up and may not be allowing proper voltage and current flow, or other connections are bad. Do a voltage drop test (you can Google it) on each component and connection, from the battery terminals to starter motor ground at the engine mounting, and the battery ground cable too. Let me know what you find out. Paul Fitz

This is a problem that is not strictly a Franklin problem I suspect, but it is happening on a Franklin, so I'll start here and see if anyone has any thoughts. My Dad and I sold a 135 Coupe that has a 145 engine in it to Eric Berg a couple months ago. He has needed us to replace the starter 3 times since then. The first time the moving starter gear had moved all the way to the other side of the ring gear and gotten stuck. The other two times the starter had burned out internally after a week or so of normal use. All of these starters had been taken to Vogel Electric in Bakersfield, which is a very good shop and does all the electric motor work for the Nethercutt collection and many other HCCA and CCCA clients, and certified to be in good shape. When we got the broken starters back from Eric, we took it back to Doug at Vogel, and he indicated the wires inside had completely burned out and the entire starter needed to be re-wired. $600! When I look at the wiring diagram, the starter, starter button, and battery seem to be the only thing in the circuit. The car has a standard 6 volt battery and new high gauge cables from the battery to the button, button to starter, and from the battery to the transmission for ground. I'm totally at a loss for why 3 starters seem to have been destroyed by this fool-proof system. These results are what I would expect from running the starters at 12 volts for a long time or 6 volts for a VERY long time. I need to figure this out before we run out of starters and need to start rewiring them... Could it be that we put in wires that are too big and even at 6 volts there is too much current? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

Hi, I have installed a Mitchell in two 1929s. (Technically, I installed it in one, took it out, and put it in another....) The first one was a 135 Coupe. I used the mounting plate that mitchell provided, and I mounted it as far forward as possible because I didn't want the driveshaft in the back to be too short. This required that I remove the equipment box under the seat. As I was doing it with the body on the car, I couldn't really get inside the frame channel to add angle iron, so I cut the mounting plate to size, cut holes in the bottom of the frame and put about 1/2 inch of spacers between the plate and the frame. The overdrive unit was still a little lower than I would have liked. There was a significant drop between the transmission and the overdrive. We put it all together and drove it 100 or so miles. Not too much vibration, but if there were I couldn't have done anything about it because the overdrive was basically bolted directly to the frame with no ability to adjust it. We traded that car to a friend who took the overdrive out and put it Jeff's 3.92 gears. We were doing a body off restoration on our 137 Touring, so we had much better access to get it mounted correctly, and the extra 7 inches of wheelbase made it easier to place the overdrive so as to not interfere with anything. Instead of using the plate, we used two pieces of angle iron attached to the outside of the frame. This will allow for adjustments forward, backward, left, and right to make sure the overdrive stays more or less in line with where the drive shaft would have been, and we made sure that the front mounting was as high as possible so there wasn't a big drop in the small drive shaft from transmission to overdrive. The car is still being put together, so we haven't driven it, but hopefully it will work well. Steve Roake had Mitchell install an overdrive in his 135 Sport Sedan. I drove the car, and the overdrive worked flawlessly. Steve passed away a few years ago, and I don't know what happened to the car, but Warren Martin might know. I bet if you called Mitchell and asked about Steve's car they would have lots of info about what they did. Feel free to call me if you have questions. I'm in the Franklin register. Rob

Just got this from Paul Fitz. Problem solved, I think, http://www.metrommp.com/?f=product_list_for_vehicle&VehicleYear=1932&Make=REO&Model=FLYING%20CLOUD

A Friend of mine just sent me this: http://www.metrommp.com/?f=product_list_for_vehicle&VehicleYear=1932&Make=REO&Model=FLYING%20CLOUD I think this solves it.

Hello, My dad and I recently bought a 1933 Franklin Olympic Coupe, which shares a body and chassis with the Reo Flying Cloud. (and a model of Marmon, does anybody know which?) We have looked into having new rubber covers made for the long and thin brake and clutch pedals. Are these available from some other source? If not, would there be any interest if we make a run of these parts? Thanks,

Hey gang, After nearly 70 years owning full-eliptical spring Franklins (and one beast without them for around 10 years), my family bought an Olympic Coupe. We don't know much about the availability of parts for the REO made sections of the car. One thing ours is missing is ruber covers for the brake and clutch pedals, which are long and thin, as opposed to the nearly square ones on other Franklins. My dad has found a guy who can make reproductions of these pedal covers, and we have a nice sample as a pattern. As with most rubber production, it will cost about the same amount to make several sets as to make one set. Is there any interest in buying these if we make run?

It was just re-listed at $69. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-FRANKLIN-BRASS-GREASE-CAP-DUST-COVER-WHEEL-CENTER-CAP-HUB-CAP-/121470160302?vxp=mtr#ht_800wt_610 Is it for a 1906-8ish G? It is smaller than the ones on our D, and I think the cross engine has a different style, but I'm not sure.

Which models used the 34000 gemmer? Thanks, Rob

We hope to see you and this beauty at the WesTrek in Oregon next June!

This is a pretty good car at the current price. I owned this car before Sheldon, and I drove it a lot. In 2003, I drove it on I5 from Bakersfield up to the Bay Area for the WesTrek and had no problems. I believe Sheldon did some engine work when he owned it as well... (Valves? Rings?) The body is solid, and everything is presentable. It is a great driver. If you're on the fence about bidding, feel free to ask me about it. Unless something really bad happened to the car in the last 2-3 years it is a good deal at any price below 10-12k.

Depending on the distance, I would guess that ~25% of the 100 or so cars at the Trek each year are driven there. Depending on the car, they usually take the back roads, but a late model Franklin with overdrive or high speed gears can take the freeways with no problem. There is a nice large parking lot a few blocks away from the Franklin parking for trailers if you want to go that route.

Hi, I'm helping a local museum to maintainence on their 1916 Series 9A Roadster. They've changed all fluids except for the clutch. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have known there is fluid in the clutch if I hadn't told them. Their clutch is currently working very well. Would you recommend changing the fluid? If they do change the fluid, what should they replace it with? How much? I remember changing the fluid on our series 8 clutch, and I recall that it is fairly difficult to pour accurately into the clutch without a fairly contorted funnel. Also I remember that the parts book said to use "2 guns" of oil with no explanation of how much that is in terms of standard units. I believe that Tom Rasmussen later told us that he recommends 8oz of straight 30W. Thanks for any input.

If you're near Bakersfield, then you should contact my dad Lee Webb. He has a barn in the Rosedale neighborhood with enough parts to build 4-5 29's from scratch and some complete cars you could look at including a mostly original 130 Sedan and a partially disassembled 135 Sport Sedan. In April we have an "open house" for Franklin club members during the HCCA Bakersfield Swap Meet. His number is 661-599-1670.

Hi Jim, All series 13 cars have an internal oil pump to supply oil to main and rod bearings. The pump is inside oil pan and is of the "distributor" type where the oil pressure is directed to each main bearing individually. There is a way to put a groove in the gears of a 1929 pump to have continuous oil pressure to all the bearings, but the pump will not produce as much pressure as the 1930 and later oil pumps. There is an external oiler that pumps oil to the valves, but it is inadaquate and the valves must still be oiled by hand ever few hundred miles. The external oiler has a weight inside that, theoretically, on a rough road would bounce and turn a ratchet mechanism, pumping oil to the valves. Roads today are too smooth for this to be effective. I have seen engines where the valves are oiled by a line from the pressurized oiler from inside the engine, but it takes a lot of effort to make this work. (usually way too much oil and the engine smokes) In my opinion it is easier to just oil them by hand. Inside the "hood front" there should be horozontal shutters that are hooked up to a thermostat on the engine that would open them when the engine warms up. On a 130 I have seen the shutters manually controlled from the dashboard without a thermostat. The thermostats are available (I have several in a box) and there is a person in the midwest who rebuilds them. Please let me know if you need any more information. I'm in the Los Angeles Area. Rob

I see that this sold. Anybody here know who bought it?

So.... My Dad and I are really busy and Martin needs these parts soon. We won't be back at our shop until 2 weeks after the Trek. Can anybody else get Martin some T3A parts sooner?

Hi gang, I'm potentially taking delivery of some newly manufactured front springs for a cross-engine Franklin at the Trek. Is anyone driving or shipping a car to the west coast after the meet who would be willing to take on some hitch-hiking springs? If nobody responds, I'll just have them shipped directly to California. Thanks! Rob

Stan Lucas? This is only a guess...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/magazine/how-to-solve-an-88-year-old-literary-mystery.html

I agree that the car Arnie always brings to the Trek is the '31 pictured. However, Tom indicated that Arnie might have owned the '32 in unrestored condition before selling it to Bob. The car in the movie looked a little worn, but similar to the '32 that started the thread, so I was wondering if it is the one. It would make sense if Arnie had it in running but unrestored condition before selling it to Bob, who restored it. I'll ask Arnie or Sue at the Trek and report back. Probably a wild goose chase!

Sorry, I've never taken a T3A apart. Did the other two screws come out, but that one is stuck? Maybe someone else on the board knows something I don't know..... I probably won't be to our shop until August... (It is VERY HOT where we work in July) I'll let you know when I try to get the parts you need out of one of our extra T3As if I find anything special about that particular part. It is possible that you just need to soak that particular piece in solvent because the screw is in there really tight or something got caught in the threads. The last resort would probably be to heat it up, but talk to a professional like Tom or Paul before you do that to make sure the heat won't damage the part. I remember Neal Kissel having to heat a brake drum up until the hub was red hot to get it off an old rusty series 14 axel once... 80+ years of grease burning is a smell you'll never forget!