wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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John B, It may not be your cup o' tea? But I love it!
I have been seeing this showing up in several places lately. Every time I see it again I like it even more! It needs a lot of work to get back onto the road, and being a moderately rare European luxury automobile would make it costly to do almost anything to it properly. If I had money (I never had that much!), was twenty years younger (like there is any way to make that happen?), this is a car I could really go for!
I expect that the wooden body was originally painted, not left natural. I sure would be curious what colors it may have been?
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Overland, on most models in the mid 1910s, famously had their "signature" in the lower front corner on both sides of the top hood panels. You can see that signature in both photos. So yes, it is an Overland.
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One doesn't run into them very often, however, five spoke steering wheels were used on several American early automobile manufacturers. I don't recall marque names offhand, just that I have seen them several times over the years. The use of five spoke steering wheels generally seemed to end on cars around 1907. A number of heavy trucks also used five spoke steering wheels, and for some years later, even into the early 1920s. They were often heavy duty and larger around.
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6 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:
Is it possible that this user is from a foreign country
and doesn't know the English translation for certain
technical terms?
That is precisely why I earlier tried to tap-dance around some of the possible reasons for a misunderstanding of the words. I was trying to point out possible reasons for the words he used, as well as keep the door open for further comments from the OP. I do keep hoping. It looks like a really fine example of an early electric, I would like to see more photos of it! (Egregiously self-centered selfish reasons!)
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I personally would want the photos and any pertinent discussions preserved for future reference. And the whole thing could later become relevant in a future search as a segue for another newcomer.
Perhaps after several days of "deaf ears", such a thread could be temporarily locked and allowed to fall out of sight, and then unlocked for future reference. However, I tend to not want to impose too much on our fine moderators with extra requests.
We do not want to scare newcomers away. However those of us that have been active on forums such as this for many years (more than 25 years for me participating and answering questions on other antique automobile forums!), have seen this phenomenon getting much worse in recent years.
And nobody wants me to get going on a few diatribes over the socioeconomic and political forces behind this behavior.
Of course what we really want is for people interested to join in and add to the discussions about antique automobiles!
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8 hours ago, edinmass said:
Should I use JB Weld or super glue to fix the number three exhaust valve? 🤔
I prefer chewing gum myself.
Actually I dislike chewing gum, so when I need to make a repair, I have to borrow used chewing gum from someone walking by.
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I really miss talking with and listening to people of that and an earlier generation or two. One could get such a feel for what they went through so long ago. I had great uncles that fought in the first World War, other uncles that were in Europe for World War Two. I met and had a couple antique automobile mentors that drove racing cars in the 1920s and 1930s (no well known names). All long gone now.
I started asking questions of people when I was very young. A lot of them couldn't believe a kid my age could really be interested. But I was.
I still like talking with strangers, and listening to stories they want to tell.
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Chevrolet also offered a V8 in 1917 and 1918. However, the vast majority (probably close to 99 percent!) of Chevrolet automobiles from 1916 through model year 1928 were four cylinder engines!
There is the rule, and then there are the exceptions to the rule.
And I could be wrong. It "might" be possible that it could be an Oldsmobile? However their last four cylinder was about 1924. Although the chassis and engine were very similar to some of the Chevrolet models of similar years, I suspect this chassis it later than 1924. I have known a few people with early 1920s four cylinder Oldsmobiles. But i never really worked on one to get close enough to the chassis myself.
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Most people are too busy arguing about how "right" they are to actually learn what "is right".
That includes most of my family.
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A very good friend about fifty years ago bought a 1924ish Mack three axle Bulldog (HUGE!) truck. He drove it home a couple hundred miles from Southern California into Northern California! It had the original optional pneumatic tires and wheels, which generally meant it would have one of the "higher" gear ratios. He loved to tell people that it had a top speed of "sixteen miles per hour, NOT seventeen, SIXTEEN!"
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Years ago, I had a 1928 Chevrolet chassis that looked very much like that! I had saved it from a scrap yard, and parted out the pieces. It was in pretty bad shape, I sold pieces cheap. I was really pleased when a fellow restoring a 1928 had a mechanically good rear end with a bent housing (apparently a common failure on that series Chevrolet?), came along and found my housing straight but with the rear cover missing most of the insides were useless or missing. We were both glad I had saved it from the scrappers! He actually offered to pay me more than I wanted, I said I was happy someone that needed it got it.
1928 was the first year for front wheel brakes on Chevrolet, which my chassis had. Parts may be missing, but I don't see brakes to the front, so I would guess about 1926 or 1927. Front cross member and rear cross member/gasoline tank cover look nearly identical to what I had.
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I could really love this car! IF it was a little nicer original condition. I think with enough hours cleaning and sorting, and patching up a hundred flaws, it could be a great nickel era car.
I remember it being shared here a few years ago. Same issues, too high a price.
An interesting story/history with the car. That and I love the style regardless. If I had the money? (I don't!) I could almost consider it.
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The 1925 Essex might be okay. Although anybody that would paint the other cars such horrible colors would be suspect of bad choices on any work done on any cars. The "restored" (using the term very loosely!) cars would have to be really cheap to offset re-restoration costs.
Simply sad.
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The original post piques my interest. Someone apparently with a recent acquisition, a really fine piece of automotive history, and also apparently and rightly proud of it. We of course want to know more, about the car, and about the new caretaker. What is his background? His level of knowledge about the car and its history? Those of us that have been in this hobby for a long time and are passionate about the cars and the history want to be helpful. We want other people to want to care for pieces of history. We want the cars to be cared about, understood, and appreciated.
The OP used a couple words that automatically bring up questions. Early "electric automobiles" did not of course have a magneto! They on the other hand might have used a battery charging station that mechanically generated its own electricity. Such systems were sometimes used outside of city areas where there was no local electric company to supply "ready made" electricity. Such mechanical generators might have used a magneto, or technically not a magneto but another type of dynamo that some people may incorrectly refer to as a magneto (few people today know the difference!).
As for "points"? Early electric automobiles used a number of batteries wired in combinations of "series" and "parallel". The various combinations altered the available voltage and the resultant "capacity" (or "amperage", or "current" if you prefer?) available to the electric motors. Different combinations of "series" and "parallel" batteries is how the speed was controlled, and affected how far the car would be able to travel on a given charge.
Early electric automobiles used a high current "controller" to switch between the various combinations of series and parallel connections. Those "controllers" were a weak spot in early electric cars. A lot of power went through them, and at best when they were new if pushed too hard, could burn out the contacts inside. As the cars got old, all connections and contacts corroded somewhat. All corrosion in those connections add to the line resistance and in turn stresses all contacts even more.
Getting an early electric automobile to run like it was supposed to is tough. And one should not try to run one hard at all without first checking and cleaning EVERY connection in the system. Antique "controllers" have been destroyed by trying to use them with corroded contacts and other bad connections. They can literally melt down!
A person might use the word "points" for the contacts inside the controller? Just speculating here. There are several "points of contact" inside the controller box. Most early electric cars have been used beyond the point of corrosion causing problems. Most original controller boxes need significant repair if the car is to be driven more than a very little bit, and slowly (even by early electric car speed standards!).
The ability to communicate in common language is the single most important building block of any society!
I sure would like to see the OP come back here and tell us more. Maybe keep a dialog going that we would enjoy and maybe help him to understand more about his wonderful automobile!
A long long time ago, I had a friend in one of the first local old car clubs I ever joined. He had an (1908 I think?) electric car. He drove that car a lot! There was a local "One and Two Cylinder Car" tour hosted by the local HCCA group nearly every year in those days, and the tour welcomed steam and electric pre 1915s as well as the one and two cylinder gasoline automobiles and motorcycles (all pre1915). He drove that electric car year after year after year. Nearly always, he would leave first, drive slow, and finish last with just enough charge to crawl in slowly. But he loved doing it!
I wonder where Lloyd's car is now?
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I really can't see those two pictures being the same car? Way too many things different. Wheels, lights, colors, top, with no rhyme or reason for changes. Change from right pieces to wrong pieces or the trouble to do a bad paint job? A third photo in the ad looks to be the car in the top photo above.
A good friend years ago had one of those right hand drive model A phaetons. his was actually pretty nice. He got a big kick out of people being surprised to see him on the wrong side. His girlfriend liked to sit in what was supposed to be the driver's seat reading a book as he drove from the other side.
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11 hours ago, alsancle said:
but I'm thinking 35-40 mph is the comfort zone.
Yeah but my model T Ford will do that!
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Likely after-market. The throttle linkage is adaptable. Manufacturing style indicates post WW2 (could be late 1930s?). Target market was probably tractor or industrial engines.
Similar carburetors are sometimes used on earlier antiques where the original carburetors are not available or cannot be rebuilt to be reliable.
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Thank you! It is nice to occasionally see a happy ending!
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I tried zooming in on the photo and did not get anywhere near that much clarity!
Given additional detail, I am less sure about any of the cars. I am fairly sure the white car is not a Buick, in spite of the white. The script certainly does not look right, unless it could be an after-market name or some other script. With all the bunting and decorations, a lot of details are hidden.
I could barely read any of the typing in the lower corner. With your better blowup, can you read the typing? There were a lot of people's names, and a couple of the cars maybe?
A wonderful photo regardless.
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Definition (detail) of the photo is not good. Solid identification may not be possible.
That said, I believe the first car on your (viewer's) right is a Packard, likely a model 30, but could be a model 18(?). I base this on the the apparent shape of the radiator and hood, and the deep long front bills of the front fenders (Packard is famous for both of those shapes!).
The third car from the right I suspect is a Maxwell. Also based upon an apparent shape of the radiator and hood, which most early models had with a "dip" lengthwise of the hood similar to Packard, just a bit different. The Maxwell with that style radiator had a brass bar running across the front of the radiator, which this car appears to have.
The fifth car, white near the middle of the photo, I am going to hesitate a bit. My immediate reaction, and I think very likely, is a Buick. I base this on a simple yet very obvious trait. It looks to be white.
While white is popular with restorers over the past fifty years, and a lot of horseless carriages have been painted that way? It was not common nor popular in this country back in the first several decades of the automobile. White was popular in England and its colonies around the globe! To a lesser extent, it was also common throughout Europe. For whatever reason (filthy dirty roads is one leading theory?), white was not popular on American cars. There were hundreds of exceptions. Custom ordered high end (expensive!) cars sometimes. Many dozens of lower production marques offered white. The most significant exception was Buick! For several years, roughly 1907 through 1911, across several models and sizes of cars, Buick offered their "White Streak" cars, which were in fact painted white. And Buick built a lot of them. Nine times out of ten, if you see a white car in an era photo from about 1907 through 1915, it will be a Buick.
My hesitation on the car is two things. One, although the radiator shape is very close to what nearly all Buicks used those years? Its "aspect ratio" is off just a bit (slightly tall and narrow). That could simply be a distortion of the image.
Two, there clearly is a radiator script, and it also looks very close to what Buick used on thousands of cars they sold! But it appears slightly off. Something looks too tall in the middle of "Buick". "Buick" is tall at both ends, and basically short all through the middle. Again, it could be just something in the photo? Seems to me that "Glide" had a similar script???
Wonderful photo! Good luck!
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The mounting brackets (a few pieces missing on one side could be easily made!) appear to be adjustable for chassis width. That indicates that it was likely an after-market bumper for most any midsize to large car. Bumpers were not provided on most automobiles through about 1926. Some major manufacturers began offering factory optional bumpers around 1924/'25. Some high end automobiles offered bumpers as early as 1912, including I believe Pierce Arrow.
This one appears to have what were likely nickel plated trim covers on the front sides of the bumper bars. They did not go all the way across, and were held in place in part or in whole by the front assembly brackets. They may have also been held in place by in part by fancy headed bolts through the trim piece and the bumper bar. Such fancy headed bolts more than anything held the trim piece centered on the bumper bar and made assembly onto the car easier. Once all the bolts were fully tightened, the trim pieces should stay in place even without the fancy headed bolts (the fancy head was a sort-of half a football shape!).
The bumper bars originally were most likely painted black, with the nickel plated trim pieces to add a bit of "flash" to the car.
I have always really liked that style after-market bumper on mid 1920s cars! I have seen quite a number of restored and even a few very original cars with them on the car.
For whatever it is worth? I have seen at least one restored car where the trim pieces had rusted so badly, the fellow restoring the car made near duplicates out of stainless steel. These days that might be worth considering in place of the cost and hassle of nickel plating?
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Things like this truck are in a sort of purgatory, or gray area. Certainly not "original". Not quite "like" or "as" original. But not really a hotrod either. But they are a part of automotive history. Mechanically similar in design and appearance to the original driveline, they basically act like the original would, and most people wouldn't know the differences if they looked at it.
Trucks and cars like this could be good daily drivers, and be great to see around town. Not my "cup of tea", but I wouldn't mind having one (for awhile?) if it were given to me.
Trucks like that were sometimes being upgraded with the newer engines and transmissions when they were only a few years old. It could very well have looked a lot like that when our nation entered the world war.
Over the years in this hobby, I have known several people that owned mid 1930s Buicks with late 1940s Buick straight eights in them. Also a number of people that had 1930s Chrysler products with '40s/'50s Plymouth flathead sixes in them. Sometimes they also have later rear ends and brakes in them. They look nice driving around town. Even though they are not correct that way.
There is room in the world and our hobby for such things. As long as they are not identified as what they are not.
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A beautiful and wonderful automobile!
But a "magneto"?
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Healdsburg/Windsor is on the edge of the wine country North of San Francisco. Beautiful countryside, great antique automobile roads. I have toured that area many times in years past, and driven by it for family and business drives literally hundreds of times!
The car? 1934 is a bit too new for what I really want, but I have always wanted for a Rolls Royce, and if it were possible (it isn't), I think I could fall in love with this one.
I look at the ads for them often, and also would expect the price to be about right for the model. I certainly hope it is legitimate, and hope someone gets a great car for a fair price!
1921 Delage DE “Woody” Sedan. $24,500
in "Not Mine" Automobiles For Sale
Posted
Thank you John Bloom for posting this, and kar3516 for your comments!
Cars like this should be discussed more for the benefit of all.