wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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It was called the "New Day" model Jewett in 1926 and became the "New Day" Paige for 1927. It was also either a 6-40 or 6-45 as the 1927 Paige. I have the 1927 Paige 6-45 sedan in my garage. As Paige Detroit wound down their final year, they rebadged the New Day Jewett as the small model Paige. The crossover cars had the Paige name on the radiator, but Jewett badging on all other nameplates, engine and body. The crossovers also had an unusual hubcap with a fancy "P" more like something Peerless might have used. Years ago, there was another Paige 6-45 sedan in my family that had the earlier crossover badging and hubcaps, along with those steel disc wheels. Unfortunately, I was unable to get it when the other family member decided to sell it. It was in slightly better original condition than mine, and I would have liked to have had it.
Mine is a little later in the crossover, and has Paige engine and body badging, although the engine number plate had been changed apparently at the factory from the original Jewett one which was made of brass, to the Paige version which was made of aluminum. A piece of the brass engine plate was still attached to the engine. Mine also has the genuine Paige script "P" hubcaps.
In the OP photo, I can tell the hubcap is not the Paige script "P" by its general size and shape. However, in the blur, I cannot tell for certain if it is the earlier Jewett script "J" or the interim fancy "P"? I almost want to say I think it is the interim "P"? But I just cannot be sure.
One detail in the OP photo that pretty much clinches Paige or Jewett is that the body (in spite of black and white photography) is clearly a three color body. Paige and Jewett were ahead of the curve on fancier colors for their cars in 1926 and 1927. Nearly all their cars those two years were three color bodies, with black upper body on enclosed styles above the upper beltline, and two contrasting colors separated by the lower beltline. They also had pinstriping in an additional color, and some bodies got another additional color around the window reveals. All cars had black fenders and side aprons.
Nice little car!
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Be careful Jack B! Model Ts are quite addictive. Once you get past the proletariat ubiquitousness and try one? They really are the most fun per mile and for the dollar than any other antique automobile. I have had a Pierce Arrow, a couple nice pre1930 Studebakers, another rarely seen horseless era touring car, driven friend's Lincolns and numerous other fine cars. But even when I had some of the best cars I ever owned or drove, if I didn't also have a model T, I felt I was missing something valuable. I decided over thirty years ago, I had to have another one, and that I never wanted to not have at least one ever again.
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We want to welcome you to one of the best forums on the web for one of the best and most rewarding hobbies ever! Antique automobiles have an almost magical way of connecting their caretakers with history in general, and then making one's own personal history and family more real and interesting. Making those things more real and personal gives people greater understandings of the past and how people lived, then other cultures as well.
There are a lot of misconceptions out on social media. The "touring sedan" thing is one of them. While there were a lot of cars that were called "touring sedan", the combined term did not become common in any way before the mid to late 1930s, and then only on specific automobiles.
To get proper answers to your questions, we need to know what you actually have?
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Too modern for me to be really interested, but I just had to look at the actual ad.
Sad. Looks like it might have been a nice car before they parked it in a field for a couple decades?
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Antique automobile emblems like these are often highly collectible. Often to the detriment of owners of cars that need them. That said, values individually vary from only a couple dollars for some, others might be in the hundreds for a single emblem. It takes a serious collector that knows that market to give decent advice on values.
Beyond that, condition has a major effect on the value. Nice undamaged pieces are worth much more than ones in poor to fair condition. The "Star" automobile one (the white and gold star inside the blue and white circle) is a good example of one that would be worth much more if the porcelain in it was not broken. Those are not rare, but really nice ones are tough to find. Your "International" (1920, maybe early 1930s truck) might be in the same boat.
The "Flying Cloud" one is interesting to me. It was a series of Reo automobiles from about 1927 to about 1934. My first real antique automobile over fifty years ago was a 1929 Reo Flying Cloud master series. That emblem I have never seen before. If it is from a Reo automobile, it would likely be from the early 1930s, or it could be something different?
The "Paige" one is also of interest to me. Its condition looks to be fair to probably good if it was cleaned up a bit. Paige ceased production in 1927 when the Graham brothers took over the company. I am not sure what all years that one may be appropriate for, however it would be the final few years. It looks like the one on my 1927 Paige 6-45 sedan (mine appears to be in better condition). I believe yours might be good for back to about 1925? Frankly, I don't know how much that one would be worth? The last one I saw for sale I was told went for about a hundred dollars. Whether that was a fluke or high or low, I won't claim to know. But I cannot at this time buy anything like that unless I really need it.
The LaS is for a LaSalle, a companion car to Cadillac, probably late 1930s. No idea of value.
The Fisher Body tags are likely not worth much. Most of the rest of them I have little to no idea what they may be worth.
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The gear on your magneto is way too large, too many teeth, to use on a model T regardless of mountings. The magneto could probably be used on a model T with a proper gear and mountings. That mounting could possibly with considerable alterations be made to work for a model T. However, it clearly was not intended for a T. I agree with others that it most likely was for some tractor or industrial use engine. The mounting is similar (but not the same!) as a 1950s Le Roi industrial air compressor my dad used to have.
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As a matter of clarity and language, "wood wheels" are in fact wooden "spoke" Wheels. And "wire wheels" when discussing the antique era automobiles are better referred to as "wire spoke wheels". That distinction became unnecessary years later as wooden spoke wheels became so obsolete that there was little place for confusion. However with automobiles of the 1920s and earlier, it helps to be clear about it.
That will help you later if you decide to pursue this course and advertise for parts you need. Clarity in the titles of online advertisements go a long way to getting the responses you seek. Be sure to tell whether you are wanting to buy (sometimes abbreviated as "WTB") or wanting to sell ("For Sale" or "FS").
I am not very familiar with the 1928 dodge automobiles, so all I can give is some generalizations.
"Is it possible?" Certainly. Is it worth it? Maybe, depends on marque specifics and your reasons for wanting the change.
A lot of people are afraid of wooden spoke wheels. Rather silly really. If wooden spoke wheels are in good condition, and tight as they absolutely need to be? They are not the weak archaic technology people today think they are. They were not the go-to most common wheels on many tens of millions of automobiles manufactured for thirty years because they weren't any good! They were engineered, designed and built to withstand the terrible roads of their day. They can handle speeds easily double anything your Dodge will ever attempt! They do need to be inspected occasionally for any signs of loosening, as become loose will destroy the wheel quickly at modern speeds. As long as the wood (and frankly metal pieces!) is good, they are not in any significant manner more unsafe than steel or wire spoke wheels. The modern era failure rate is probably worse for wire spoke wheels than it is for the many times more wooden spoke wheels on the road today.
Accidents and collisions often can break a wooden spoke wheel. Breaking a wooden spoke wheel very rarely ever causes an accident.
By the way. I am one of the few people regularly on this forum that has actually driven antique racing cars at actual racing speeds on actual half mile (half mile plus!) race tracks, on wooden spoke wheels. Those events I was fortunate to be a part of nearly fifty years ago were the most fun I ever had in my life! And I would do it again in a minute if I had an opportunity to do so!
Generally speaking, changing wooden to wire spoke wheels requires changing the wheels (obviously), as well as the hubs (all four!), and probably the brake drums (some cars the brake drums might be interchangeable or easily modified?). Also, almost always, some changes may have to be made to the spare tire carrier. Often, getting a workable spare tire carrier for some cars can be the hardest part to get. Fender side-mount spares may or may not be difficult to change. Rear mounted spares will likely require a totally different spare tire mounting assembly.
Whatever you decide? Good luck! And enjoy that car.
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The Ford "Deuce" mystique drives the cost on these coupes. I don't see it myself either. In almost any condition, there are a hundred cars I would rather have for half or less than what any Ford "Deuce" will sell for. As far as I am concerned? They can have them if they can afford them. I would rather have a Ford model T.
I sometimes comment of my general dislike of "most" collector car appraisers. The collector car market is complicated, and it doesn't always make sense. These cars are a prime example of the issues faced in collector car markets.
The 1932 Plymouth Xander shared will be a tough sell at under 9K. My first glace at the OP Ford and my first thought was "he'll probably get it!"
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That "might" (I said "might" ) be a master coil for a model T. A lot of those were made and sold by numerous companies as the earliest model Ts got to be a few years old. The earlier Ts used a variety of different coil systems made by several companies. They were not yet standardized, and servicing them was becoming difficult. Methods to properly adjust the various systems were not then available to local shops, and the master vibrator coils helped to steady the timing of the engines.
A lot of the master vibrators were manufactured after 1913 when Ford standardized on the KW design coils. For both simplicity and availability reasons, a lot of those master vibrator coils actually used the new design standardized coil inside their box! IF (that BIG if again?) it does in fact have the Ford coil inside, one can buy ready rebuilt Ford coils and with only a minor alteration make that coil box work as a single cylinder early style coil.
Just a thought.
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I am pretty sure that intake manifold is from a mid to late 1910s Maxwell! Rather distinctive looking shape. I have one of those manifolds in my junk and was told years ago it was from a Maxwell.
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Reo Flying Cloud also had the front end of the front springs in rubber inside a cast iron base in the late 1920s. Reo also was one of the first automobiles with internal expanding hydraulic brakes in 1929 (or so I have read, but I always had some doubt about that myself?). However, I had a 1929 Reo Flying Cloud master series about fifty years ago. And those castings don't look quite like I remember them? The castings on my car were more squared looking. Maybe it could be one of the "mate" series cars? Or a year or two later?
For whatever it is worth, my Reo from 1929 had eighteen inch wooden spoke wheels and tires on it. I don't offhand recall how many lugs they had.
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I am not being picky, nor complaining? But I suspect a humorous typo?
On 10/18/2023 at 8:05 AM, Peter Gariepy said:On top of that the paint got a good buffing and a few interior tears were sawn up.
Oh, what a difference one simple letter can make. "Sawn", "sewn"?
Big difference in the image one can perceive.
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The "Early Ford Registry" site is very good for people interested in the pre-model T fords.
https://earlyfordregistry.com/
The N/R/S cars are a little smaller, lighter, and less horse power than the model T. I have never had one myself (would love to!), but understand that 30 mph on good roads should be no problem. Properly restored and sorted, they are good drivers and fairly reliable. A lot of people alter some things like the rear end to use the better-built model T parts to increase reliability a bit. Well done, it can hardly be seen once assembled. Transmission is not enclosed, and requires a fair amount of oiling that makes a mess on the rear chassis and ground, but otherwise works well and is fairly reliable once well restored and maintained.
The flywheel on the front of the engine can break the crankshaft if the car is pushed a bit too hard. Although I rarely hear of it happening. The EFR in the past twenty plus years has done a great job of getting owners to tour with their N/R/S cars more. It is a group I really wish I could afford to be a better part of.
Good luck!
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Very nice! Congratulations.
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A longtime friend had one about thirty years ago. I saw it once at his place. I think he had to sell it about fifteen years later, and I have no idea where it is today. I have heard there are a few others, but haven't seen them. So I think there are a few at least. Neat looking tail lamp!
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Looks like you're on the right track. I take it those are "fixed lugs" on the rims? Most big cars and smaller manufacturers used separate lugs that were not attached to the rim to mount the rim onto the wheel. Most model T Fords with factory demountable rim wheels, some Chevrolet, Overland, Star, and others used fixed lug rims for some years and models. I am not familiar with Chrysler/Maxwell so much, although I think Maxwell did use some fixed lug rims about 1920.
People tend to freak-out when faced with the idea of straightening early wheel rims. Misconceptions of the "widow maker" rims, and safety concerns-turned-fears tend to run amok leading people to believe that even minor damaged rims cannot be repaired. Actually, if rims are not badly damaged, they aren't that difficult to straighten.
A strong heavy base to work on is important. I often use my car-trailer's tongue for that purpose. I also am fortunate to have some tinsmith anvils that belonged to my grandfather which I often use to straighten many things including wheel rims. Tinsmith anvils are not something most people have, almost anything heavy and solid enough to hold the rim steady while wrestling with it can work well. Trailer tongues are fairly common in this hobby.
For a whole lot of reasons, measuring, assessing, mounted tires create interference, the rim should be stripped of tires or other wheel or pieces not being repaired at that moment. So, yes, the air should be let out and the locking bolt removed.
The first thing to do is determine just where the rim needs to be tweaked. To that end, for rims that aren't too tough, a "perfect" circle drawn on cardboard may be suitable. Tracing a rim is not "perfect" enough. You need a very round circle of appropriate size to trace, or rig up a compass to draw one. A couple well centered circles (inner and outer) is also helpful to determining which areas of the rim are too straight, and which areas are too sharp.
Once found, mark the rim with a beginning and ending points (chalk, pencil, felt marker?). Most minor issues are gradual, so your area to tweak should be a few to several inches long. If the bent/tweaked area is close to the split? Clamp the area closer to the split, and use the longer part for leverage to make your adjustments.
Once marked, firmly clamp the rim onto your solid base just outside the area to be tweaked. Do not crush the rim with a clamp to the base. A small block or two of scrap wood can cushion and protect the rim from additional damage. When well clamped, try to manhandle and push/pull the other side of the marked area in the appropriate direction, split rims should NOT be latched together! One needs to push past the desired point, and then let the rim spring back freely. Softer metal rims it doesn't take much!
You also want the free-floating ends to help guide you to know when things are getting closer to right. Ideally, the two ends should with little to no pressure basically meet evenly, and with somewhere between a very small gap to a very slight pressure pushing the ends together. Most of this is not critical. Close to perfect is close enough!
As a general rule, I prefer to bend and work these rims back to straight cold. However, some rims are just too tough to do cold, and some heat needs to be carefully applied. Also, some rims if tweaked or twisted enough (and it doesn't take much!) are better suited to be repaired with carefully placed hot spots to shrink the metal back to where it belongs.
Work slowly, and carefully. Don't force things too quickly and make matters worse. Work it a little, then recheck it. then work it a little more. Easier to make a couple small adjustments than to make a big leap and have to bend it back again.
A couple years ago, I needed to replace a tire on my Paige as the eighty year old tire no longer wanted to support the car so that I could roll it around when I needed to (it doesn't run). My spare rim turned out to be bent. Not badly looking at it. But enough that I spent more than two hours trying to get the locking pin put in it, and there was no way it was going to line up enough. Once I accepted that I had to straighten the rim, it took about a half hour to custom make a simple sheet metal template to precisely check the curvature of the rim (the rim was slightly twisted and I needed precision!). Once that was accomplished (including the precision template), it took about forty-five minutes to find and carefully mark the bends and twists, clamp the rim to grandpa's tinsmith anvil, fire up the oxy-acetylene torch, re-bend and tweak the rim back to where it belonged, AND clean and repaint the rim!
The next day, it took about ten minutes to mount the tire onto the repaired rim, and put the safety pin in place. About one hour to repair the rim the right way AND mount it versus more than two hours fighting with the bent rim and failing. Think about it.
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38 minutes ago, Max4Me said:
With the adjusted carburetor and repaired tank the car is back on the road! Let’s see if it lasts longer than I do.
That is almost exactly how I would have done it! Probably a little nicer than my usual work (no show cars for me!).
Now, the challenge is on! With a good repair, drive it to see which fails first! You or that repair? (And I hope it is a long - lo-ong - contest!)
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On 11/4/2023 at 3:54 AM, alsancle said:
This is a great car. Engine swap is too bad.
Yeah, that engine swap just doesn't make sense to me. I can understand someone being afraid of the early V8 engines, how to work on them (that fork and blade setup can be scary, although I have worked on a friend's engine a fair amount), reliability issues? The Lincoln (and most big 1920s V8s!) have frames designed for the shorter V8 engine. Trying to "shoehorn" in a typical flathead six can be really tough. And a bigger straight eight no way! Any too small engine is going to make the thing a complete dog to drive. And those model L Lincolns are great drivers when properly sorted! I often drove my friend's 1925 home from busy weekends because I had serious insomnia which made me able to drive hours longer than most people were able to stay awake. I drove his seven passenger sedan hundreds of miles!
I remember fifty years ago Jack Passey's place had at least a dozen model L Lincoln engines sitting around on half frames. He had collected them for spare parts for his collection, and would make them available to other owners if they needed one. But Jack has been gone for awhile now, and I have no idea what happened to all those engines. The recent thirty years, much of this country has gone nuts for cleaning up the environment, and sadly a lot of valuable old iron made a long trip to overseas iron furnaces. I imagine that there are still a number of model L engines scattered around? But what would it take to get one, I don't know. And the cost to rebuild one these days is (YIKES)! I could probably still do most of the work to rebuild one, IF I had the time. But I do not have the time to work on anything like that right now.
I love the Judkins coupes! I have been up close to a few of them over the years. I sure would like for someone to get this car and restore it correctly. But that engine swap pretty much ruined that car. And going to a modern engine would only make the car worse. I sure hope someone with enough knowledge, and deep enough pockets, will step up and take this one on.
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I enjoyed the updates. That type of tinkering and sorting always seems to go slowly. However it is important in order to get a car truly enjoyable and drivable.
Some interesting history in the car's past eighty years.
Enjoy the journey!
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Looks like one model T roadster (likely a 1926/'27) in that pile, right in the center of the photo!
I wonder if the photo could have been about a year after the war ended, and new cars began being available to replace cars that were barely still going by the end of the war? If the photo was taken prewar scrap drive? That would be a lot of cars only about five years old at the time. And most of them look pretty beat!
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Saddened by the loss of your grandfather. If you keep the car, and take good care of it, every time you go for a drive it can be like visiting with him again.
Not a really expensive collectible car, but those Plymouths for their era were good cars, advanced for their era and fairly reliable.
There are some proper ways to put a car back onto the road if it has been sitting for very long. Brakes are most important, and cleaning up the fuel system nearly as important for getting it to run correctly.
The interior looks really nice! Do you know if it is the original or not?
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7 hours ago, Leif in Calif said:
Why were they popular?
They weren't all that popular back when the cars were new. Yes they were a factory option on many cars. And almost every auto parts store in the country sold after-market versions for anything (many of them had to be special ordered).
However, out in the real world, on the roads and in the parking lots? I doubt if more than about one car in a hundred actually had those things.
Many cars of the 1920s had a visor over the windshield. They mostly kept much of the rain off the windshield at low speeds. Wipers were not very good in those earlier years, and most driving was fairly slow. By 1930, most cars were eliminating exterior visors.
Interior sun visors had been around on a few expensive cars and as after-market accessories since the late 1910s, but were somewhat rare (there is that word!). They began showing up in common cars during the 1930s, and being standard on the driver's side (I remember cars that had only one!) about 1940.
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Looks like a nice one. The input end looks like the one for an impulse to make starting the engine easier.
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So it finally arrived! Nice picture. Yeah, those top saddle "L" brackets are definitely too long for a roadster top. Otherwise, I think the car looks like a nice "Southern custom" model T. ("Southern custom" is how I sometimes refer to the Australian and New Zealand model Ts that received locally built bodies when they were new. They were often nicer than the standard Ford production bodies!)
Even though 1914 would be before the higher taxation brought about by the War in Europe, many Fords and other American and Canadian cars were already being shipped down as little more than a chassis, and received locally built bodies.
I am sure you should enjoy driving it often, as I know you like to do.
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For Sale: 1926 Chevrolet Superior Truck - $14,500 - Sarver, PA - Not Mine
in "Not Mine" Automobiles For Sale
Posted
Looks like a 1928 engine? Not necessarily a bad thing.