wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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"Conventional wisdom" is generally not wise.
I look at and study as many era photos as almost anybody. But I have never made a study of Mercer specifically. I noticed many years ago that most era photos of Mercer Raceabouts were not light colors. Black and white photography isn't great for determining colors on cars. Different film types and emulsions had different reactions to various colors. A medium red car may show up as a light gray, or full blown black depending on the process used. But something like a light yellow will nearly always be between a near white or light gray in a B&W era photo.
I never made a list, or tracked given marques to see what the tendency for colors was. However, off the cuff, I would guess from the dozens of era photos of Mercers that I have looked at, that less than a quarter of them were yellow to white.
Unfortunately, in this hobby I and we love, over the three quarters of a century it has been active, hobbyists have followed a few too many fads. Popular incorrect colors have been among the worst of the fads. At least the one thing is that the color a car was painted when restored isn't set in stone. A car can be re-restored again, and colors can be changed.
When I was just getting into this hobby, I saw a number of cars being restored in really wrong colors. I saw other things like too many classic era cars with too many lights on the front. That was one of the things that got me started early at looking closely at era photographs. I wanted to know what looked right and what didn't. Black and white photography shows a lot of details, however true colors are not among the details shown. They do however give a good overview of the lightness or brightness of given cars.
In the 1910s, and into the mid 1920s, there just were not a lot of cars painted in anything considered a light color. Of course there were exceptions. And I could name a dozen of them. Buick "white streak" series cars from a bit before 1910 to about 1912 are one of the most common near white cars of that era. If you see an era photo of a bunch of cars of about 1910, and one or two of the cars appear to be white? Even bet the white cars are Buicks. Both the Mercer Raceabout and the Stutz Bearcat did build some cars in yellow or white. However most era photos they seem to be darker colors. Personally, I think the ones I like the best are dark red.
I will admit to a few too many white wall tires on a couple of my antique cars. But mostly, I like for them to look like they were ripped out of an original era photograph. A few after-market accessories, yes. But not too many. But that is just me.
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10 hours ago, 34LaSalleClubSedan said:
Is the model 24 a Standard Buick, not the large series???
Yes it is the smaller "Standard" Buick. The wire wheels make it a bit special, and add a fair amount to the value. However, the other listing had a couple pictures that showed some things unfinished that to me make me question what else isn't done ?
Beautiful (even if not perfect) car, and be aware that Buick those years did offer the sporty roadsters and touring cars in bright colors very similar to this! I am not an expert on them, however these colors might actually be correct?
The standard six Buick is no slouch! The larger Master series six is one of the fastest standard production cars of the mid to late 1920s, and although they are not quite as fast, the Standard six is faster than most common cars of that era. Great nickel era tour cars.
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Now, THAT is a parts car!
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1 hour ago, Pomeroy41144 said:
My 1937 Ford can be hand cranked.
I am going to buy the crank handle and try it some day. Next spring perhaps.
I have been taught how to hand crank Ford Model T, so I am aware of the hazards.
I'll let you guys know how I do.
I hope we don't get to see a photo of you with your arm in a sling?!
Just kidding of course. I have had a few cars that didn't have a starter, and crank started cars many hundreds of times. I have crank started many cars over the years that weren't mine, including a six cylinder Pierce Arrow, a few Buicks, among others.
My first model T speedster had an original era Bosch magneto without an impulse. It was cantankerous to say the least. I often had to spin the crank to get enough spark to fire it off, especially at that magic time about five to thirty minutes after being shut off when all the heat was in the wrong places. It did manage to backfire on me a couple times over the years I drove it. But I never broke anything.
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Thank you m-i !
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Two different top saddle/clamps, likely for a small to midsize touring car. Could be for some roadsters.
Cars that used them, needed one for each side. Some sets required two, a right and a left, mirror images of each other. Some cars used ones that could fit either side. Your top photo requires a mirror image, the bottom one might be for either side (can't see all dimensions in a single photo).
They were common on cars as early as 1910, and well into the 1920s. Must be at least a hundred variations and styles.
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A lot of cars used "fork mounted" headlamps in the acetylene gas headlamp era, and even electric headlamps well into the 1920s. They remained popular on expensive cars even after cheaper cars went to simple post or cross-bar mounted headlamps.
One of the last of the "cheap" cars to use fork mounted headlamps was Chevrolet in the late 1910s and first couple years of the 1920s. They had an angled fender skirt mount and a place to bolt a stabilizing rod between the two headlamps. Very much like these.
There were other similar ones, but my first guess would be Chevrolet.
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Amazingly, a lot of cars and trucks even in this country continued to have hand cranking capability even into the early 1950s. My dad's 1951 Chevrolet pickup originally had it, even the front crankshaft pulley for the hand crank to engage in. That part went away when he had the engine rebuilt about 1960, but I remember it on the original engine. Even at least some of the 1952 cars had access for a hand crank to be used. Replacement front pullies quit providing the engagement on them by the 1960s, and originals with that feature are few and far between (I might even have one still???).
What I found interesting many years ago, was a 1950s service manual that stated that "hand cranking access" was provided for the mechanic's convenience to turn the motor over slowly for servicing and adjusting things like valves and ignition. Made me think they didn't want people to think the car was unreliable and might need to be started by hand crank.
Numerous European and British cars and trucks provided hand cranks well into the 1960s!
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Any idea where or when this was taken? I am sure it isn't an original era photo.
Under the "What Is It?" section, someone else identified it as a 1909 or 1910 Cadillac.
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2 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:
So, to make sure there is no wild speculation I was just told (from someone who was there) the car was clipped in the rear sending it into the swale where it went on its side. No driver error. Based on what I was told the picture will not help anyone understand how the accident occurred. Some idiot, distracted or tailgator had no respect for the car in front of them.
Sounds to me like a severe case of "driver error"! Just not the antique automobile driver's error. It has ever been thus, and ever shall it always be. No matter what a person does, it involves numerous elements of risk. A lot of those risks are totally beyond that person's control. Some choices of course involve greater risks than do others. And of course, some risks can be mitigated if one is paying close enough attention to everything around them. There are always unlikely risks that cannot be foreseen or simply avoided.
My wife recently told me about a news article online that a group of people were visiting in one's home. In the midst of friendly conversation, an airplane crashed through the roof of the home! In a couple major cities in California, stray bullets have been an almost daily occurrence! Try ducking that one at your dinner table. (And yes, a few innocent people in their homes have been killed by the gang shootings!)
I choose to not pretend I am safe, hiding in a back room. I prefer to confront the common risks face to face. I pay attention to all around me, and have managed to avoid a considerable number of idiots paying no attention whatsoever to their responsibilities. If I can ever break free of my family's neediness, I hope to go back to driving my antique automobiles often and far.
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Too big of a "dose" of "doesn't"?
I see that one almost every day on this and other forums.
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I hesitate to say anything. However, anyone interested should go and see it or have someone very familiar with these cars go see it. The photo's angles aren't showing something. I tried zooming in closer and couldn't tell for sure. But something doesn't look right between the back of the roadster body and the pickup box. Maybe just some poor workmanship on the top?
1925 was the first year for the Ford factory pickup box made to fit in place of the turtle deck /trunk. The 1926/'27s were slightly upgraded with some styling improvements. Nice ones of any of those three years are prized by the model T crowd.
There are a few other minor things, modern tail-lamps for instance. I don't like too many bells and whistles on antique cars myself, so the model A horn bugs me. But those things are easy fixes.
Looks like a nice car to have a lot of fun with! Value? Depends.
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Ed is just Ed, and many here love him for it. However, some here are also are concerned about any real antique or collector car seriously damaged in any sort of an accident. Some of us are also concerned about the perception that other people have of our antiques when they are involved in serious accidents. And we care about our friends (even if they are antique automobile "friends" we have not yet met?) that may have been injured in such accidents.
Sometimes there are reasons that certain information or photos cannot be shared. So I will not press the issue.
Some people may want to know if the car or the people are ones they know? Most that do know them, will most likely find out soon enough. I know that I have been in that position a few times myself.
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I had to laugh out loud myself! First time I read the comment, as my eye looked ahead and saw the misspelling (sic), my brain quickly switched to Bugs Bunny and I heard it just as Bugs said it in a cartoon or two! (Maybe I am crazy????) It seemed perfectly normal to me.
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Windshields/windscreens did not really begin to become standard equipment on most automobiles until almost 1910, with most models of automobiles they remained optional until about 1910 or slightly later. In most parts of the world, they weren't required until about 1930 or even later. There were many automobiles, and most slower trucks that did not have windshields well into the 1920s.
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Chandler. Look at the rear window. It is the shape of the Chandler radiator emblem.
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One of my longtime best friends for many years loved collecting accessories from the nickel era cars. He had a nice collection and also had a number of after-market accessories catalogs. He had a couple similar tinted glass visors intended to be mounted inside the car (bolted through the windshield frame), including a couple in original boxes. The images in the catalogs and on a couple boxes indicated that they were from the mid into late 1920s.
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19 hours ago, carbking said:
The H's and R's were used on a number of vehicles in the 1920's; but every one I have ever seen, like this one, was suffering from "pot metal decay", and usable only for patterns.
After my dad bought the Paige in 1967, I spent quite a few years searching swap meets for parts for the car. The original carburetor had been replaced by a model B Ford carburetor (which we sold to someone restoring a model B). I managed to fine a couple Johnson model H carburetors which the Paige literature I have said the car had originally. Most like you said were suffering from "pot metal fatigue". However, I did find one Johnson model H apparently cast of aluminum. I don't know how many like it might be out there? But I have one.
If I ever get to work on the car again, and get it running? I don't know whether I might try to use the aluminum Johnson on it? Or perhaps some brass 1920s from maybe a Studebaker or other similar size six. I have a 1920s Stromberg that might be good.
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The little Willys models of the 1930s are a special thing in the collector car world. A solid mid level producer of the 1920s, they like too many others were destroyed by the depression. Willys however, bucked the system and went for much smaller and less costly automobiles, cutting a decent slice out of the remaining market for much of the decade. They sold fairly well, considering the times, and a lot of the cars were driven for many years. They were good cars during the war years, since they got better gasoline mileage than most.
After the war, unfortunately, they became popular with the hot rod and racing crowd. Their smaller size worked nicely for several types of customs, and many of the cars were thoroughly worn out anyway. By the 1960s, not very many of the little cars remained anywhere near their original form.
Really nice restorations of them are few, and far between. It may be a stretch to say this one is one of the "nicest in the world"? On the other hand, from the looks of the photos it would be difficult to find one any better.
I generally do not like to speculate much on the values of other people's cars. Even though a lot of cars are easy to follow various trends. This one, on the other hand, would not be an easy one. Desirability is mixed. It doesn't appeal to the "big car crowd", or the CCCA bunch. Too new for brass era or nickel age. Not great for highway driving, it isn't much faster than a well done model T Ford. However, it is rare, and although rarity does not equal big dollars, it also has an interesting mystique as the little car that so many super customs were made from during the 1950s through the '70s.
I would be curious to hear what it does sell for.
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1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:
Have seen pictures of timber being delivered to auto body plants by the carload. When you figure up how many bodies were made and the amount of wood in each, and figure half was wasted in cutting out the pieces it comes to an astonishing total. I can see why they would use anything that was suitable, would stand the strain and could be bought cheap.
Exactly right! Add in supply chain disruptions as another reason. Many specialty woods came from commercial groves, most of which could only produce a certain amount of wood in a given time. When you figure in that automobile manufacturers were building more cars with each passing year, and one can quickly see why shortages would occur. Certain pieces NEED to have special characteristics of both strength and flexibility as well as workability in a factory setting. Those special woods would be earmarked for those uses. Remnants and scrap pieces would be used for making smaller parts. When supplies were running low on the special woods, many pieces of the body would be made of what ever was available, hence maple bought from the furniture industry being found in some original bodies.
Although I know a bit about it, I certainly am NO expert on woods! I can rarely actually identify a given piece of wood myself by just looking at it. However, I have met people over the years that worked with specialty woods either as a hobby, or professionally, that could identify most common woods easily. One time, many years ago, I had an opportunity to look closely at a heavily weathered and gutted 1920s sedan. Just looking at the different wooden pieces and how they had weathered, I counted five different species of wood in that body. The fellow I was visiting with was really into woodworking and furniture making. He was impressed that I could see the differences of the woods even though I couldn't identify them. He then pointed out what most of them were. As I recall, oak and ash were there, but the one that really stuck with me was maple around part of the window frames. I do not recall what the other two were.
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I can't judge the size, but the overall design is similar to the Johnson model H that was original for my 1927 Paige 6-45 sedan. Yours must be a bit newer however, given the Oct 1929 patent date cast onto the body. I am not sure I could find it, however, I also have another Johnson carburetor roughly 20 percent larger than the model H that looks very similar to yours. None of mine have that inlet elbow on them, although a couple of them do have the screw holes for something along that line or an air filter. According to some original literature I have, my Paige was supposed to have an air filter on the car.
For such a rarely seen carburetor, Johnson carburetors were used on quite a few cars around 1930, including some Cadillacs.
I hope you can get a definitive answer to what it fits, and find someone that can use it.
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The '53 Studebaker and later Lark may in fact be better looking and maybe even more practical (unless you want to haul a credenza?). However that Packard is so bizarre looking that I like it!
I would have to win a major lottery before I would consider buying something like that, however, because it really isn't my thing. There would be at least a hundred cars I would have to have first.
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I knew there was something I recognized in that race car photo. And slowly, something in my brain crept out. I had to thumb through one of my automobile encyclopedias until I saw the name.
I am pretty sure that car rounding the turn, kicking up clouds of dust, is a Pic Pic. An automobile from Switzerland from 1906 to 1924 (I did have to look that up!). Note the "PP" insignia on the radiator.
I knew I had seen that odd radiator shape somewhere before.
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18 hours ago, suchan said:
I was telling myself "it sure looks better with black wheels"....then I realized it was a black and white photo I was looking at.
Nice runner.
It really is funny how that can work! I have over the past fifty years spent so many hundreds (thousands?) of hours studying era black and white photographs, I hardly even notice if the color goes away on a tv show, or other switches between color and B&W.
When I first looked at this yesterday, I wondered why they put the same pictures in twice. I had to go back and look again to realize it had been reposted in B&W.
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1930 Franklin 145 Airman Sedan
in "Not Mine" Automobiles For Sale
Posted
We already discussed this one half to death! However, it is a pretty car, and
I certainly don't mind seeing it again.