MikesWoodieWorld

I am parting a 53 wagon, just may have one. Add a picture, and I may need help in removing it!! LOL (Well, never did that yet!!) Mike

I am not familiar with 55's, but the 50-53's have their sweep spears made of stainless steel, which polishes up to a gorgeous shine, and will last a long time. I would think yours are stainless too. Polishing them should be a lot less money than if you had to plate them. I suggest doing it before you install them and have second thoughts later. Let me know what you decide, Mike

Keith, I see you are in Toronto. I lived there in the fabulous era of 1957-8. Across the street from where we lived there was a local Chevy dealers storage lot, and I remember the new 58 model Chevy's being brought there, in the wee hours, very cloak and dagger!! When we awoke, there they were, with covers on each and every one of them!! The climax was when the covers were removed, many weeks later, to reveal the new year's styling!! What suspense!! Meanwhile, we had to look at covered cars!! (Perhaps that is why I never like to cover my treasures, but enjoy seeing them daily!! LOL) We lived at 20 McGill St., a rooming house that my parents ran for a while, perhaps it is still there.... Then we moved to Whitby, 30 or so miles east. I have very fond memories of our time in Toronto. Thanks for reminding me, Mike

Keith, I enjoy working with wood much more than metal. These carving machines have been around quite a long time. I understand they were used to make rifle stocks, some able to carve many at a time off one pattern. Do you have any pictures of the boat? Mike

ROB, I can make every part for 50-53 wagons on that machine as far as size. The upper door frames are too weak to be made by holding the ends, though. For those parts, I have a second carving machine, same as the one shown, except it has a table mounted on it. I have mounted 6 vices on the table, 3 for the pattern, and 3 for the blank. The blanks have to be planed to the finished width and left oversize on thickness and length. I mount them in the vices and finish the inside shape, then turn them over and complete the other side. I am afraid the machine is too cluttered right now to post pictures, but when next I use it, I will post some pictures. As for the corner brackets, you are right. The angles are very important to get exact, since they are a major help in keeping the tailgate opening square. Also, the wood surfaces they mount to have to be accurate for the same reason. I'll see about getting you some more roof pictures!! Mike

Actually, John, no!! Wagons do that quite easily!! Fill the shop, that is! My shop is 50' X 100', and the "wood room" as I call it is about 25' X 25'. I have 8 wagons here, and you can visualize their size... So, you go figure...I am too tired for all that math! LOL I added some (rather rudimentary) shots of Buick roofs, as I see them as I retire to my loft...only to revisit them in the morning as I descend!! Pictures do not convey the image I see...never can! Yes, my morning commute is just to descend a flight of stairs (amid gloating!!)...I am a shop dweller..SHH, don't let that out!! Cheers, Mike LOL

JOHN, Actually the 51 is "old ivory", but I call it cream!! Some of the pictures make it look washed out, white!! I have a couple of duplicating carving machines, which are quite labor intensive, but can duplicate about 90% of the shape of any wood pattern. I will be duplicating some pieces in the near future (for the 53, above), and will add some pictures of the process. You are correct about the rear "D" pillars, John, they take about a week to create...each one!! They are made up of 3 pieces of 2 1/2" thick raw wood (planed down to about 2 1/4") laminated together, and the laminations are important to get them to come out where they are supposed to be. They are the most labor intensive part of the wood, but some other pieces come really close!! I was a machinist, working with CNC (computerized) machines for 30 or so years (until I burned out!!), and I draw on that experience constantly, working with the wood on these carving machines. But the wood gives me pleasure to see the grains I expose, never had that with metals!! And it does cut much faster, which I enjoy! (But it sure creates a lot of wood chips!!) I added some archive pictures of when I was carving the drivers door lower piece of wood, my first endeavor. They may not make much sense to you, but I will try to explain: The pattern is on the left side, held "between centers" which means it is held at each end approximately in the center. The blank of raw wood is held similarly on the right side. I can crank a handle and rotate the parts simultaneously a full 360 degrees, they rotate in tandem around the "centers". So I can carve all around, but the ends (where I hold them) have to be dealt with later...by hand!! The first 3 pictures show the pattern on the left, in various rotational positions, with the blank following. The probe moving on the pattern follows the shape, and a cutter on the right transfers the shape to the blank, but that is oversimplification...it takes quite a bit of time, depending on how much excess stock has to be removed!! The probe has to match the cutter in diameter and shape, as the last two pictures show. The groove is round, so the probe & cutter are also. I will try to take more explicit pictures as I make the wood for the 53, but it is not so easy, a video would be much better, but over my poor head!! Thanks to all for the kind words, and encouragement, Mike

There are two robust corner brackets in the rear upper corners. We did attach our temporary posts to them. Luckily, they are attached to the roof rails that go along the inside of the roof from windshield to tailgate, and these are usually very good. I have never had those missing, but some smaller hardware can be frustrating to find. The first two pictures show the corner bracket: the first one is my 51 (still don't have all the screws in it yet), and the second one is in the 53, and you can see it gets covered by some wood trim after the headliner is in. In 1953, California would have provided a 1951 license plate (larger than the black plate you see) with a corner metal tab with 53 on it, covering up the 51. In 54 and 55 I believe new corner tabs were issued. In 56, a completely new yellow plate with black letters was issued, and it was the same size as the black plate. From 57-62, foil stickers were issued each year. In 1963, the black plate was issued, and each year a new sticker was issued to the present day. New plates have been issued over the years, but as long as the car maintains its registration and the plate is in good condition, it can stay in use, I believe. If you look at the rear plate, you can see the orange sticker on the right upper corner. This has 1970 on it, but the left corner has a 1971 damaged green sticker, so that was probably the last year it was registered. Mike

ROB, Well, the new one is a 53 Super. It probably looks like a basket case to the average person, but is actually very decent. The white paint appears to be the original, mixed with surface rust, but no apparent rust through. There is no evidence of any other color on it anywhere. It seems to have had a desert life. There is the usual floor rot, but limited to the front only. The wood is very weathered, but at least the "C" pillars are still supporting the roof. We made a temporary support for the rear roof for the trip here, only a couple of hundred miles. I am amazed just how well the doors fit and open and close with ease. I am a retired hobbyist, but occasionally take on an outside project (only wood work), mainly to fund my own projects. This one will get a new set of wood and be on its way. I am anxious to get started!! I have a buddy, Frank, who is into 46-48 Chevy Woodies, and yesterday we cruised north on Hwy101 to Solidad, CA where we met his friend Joe, from Oakland. Joe had trailered Frank's latest project down, and we transferred it to my trailer and brought it back to Frank's place. (Sorry, no pictures.) It was a great run, and I didn't have to drive through any heavy traffic!! We got a lot of lookers, but I am sure most were wondering what it was...no wood!! It is pretty hard for the average person to know it is a Woodie when the wood is not there. One guy thought it was a truck!!?? That one will keep Frank busy for quite a while. And the 53 will keep me busy, too. Mike

ROB, The roof is supported by the windshield pillars and the "B" pillars (between the front and rear doors). In my original post in this thread, I showed a few pictures of the main body section of the 52 with the doors removed, but the pictures were not very good. It was crammed between two other wagons. Since then, I have moved all of them around, a major task, but allows me to clean the floor as I move them. (Plus, I had to make room for another one!!) Due to that, it is now in a better position to photograph, so I added a couple of shots showing the roof support. You can see that 2/3 or so of the roof is not supported by steel. The "C" and "D" pillars are structural wood. My experience is that the rear corner posts ("D" pillars) usually rot badly, but the "C" pillars don't as much, and they make a big difference on roof support as these wagons sit outside rotting. If you look at the picture that I posted of Bernie's old 50 Super (he posted more on another thread), you see there is no rear wooden corner posts, but the "C" pillars are there. They are starting to go, though, sadly! Prior to 1949, Buick Woodies were all wood bodied, including the roof. In 1949 they used the steel roof and doors, and this was continued until 1953, the last year of real Woodies. The 50-53 used the same body, with some minor changes, the 49 is a one year only body, but it is structurally like the 50-53. Most of the changes in the 50-53 were on the grilles and rear fenders, so the main body wasn't affected. Mike

This was started many years ago, are you still needing help? Mike

I am refreshing this thread to keep the number sequence close. I am sure I will need it when I get to my 50 grille. Great thread!! Mike

OK, Bernie, you win on that one!! However, most woodies were using mahogany during the early 40's and beyond. Some 30's used the (blah) woods you mentioned, but mahogany comes to life when the sun hits it, no contest!! Even if it is "foreign". Remember, "foreign", back then, was not like it is today. As an aside, I am "foreign", being born in England. But we arrived here in 1960, and I was taken in by local kids since I spoke funny!! I taught baseball fans how to play cricket, and they loved it, although it was quite Americanized!! LOL Good memories, foreign was not back then as it is today, and I am grateful for that. I am an American citizen now, and feel American. (And an usually assumed to be one, since all accent is totally gone, and I look American!! LOL) Enough of this, back to business: By the early to mid 40's all had gone to mahogany. But, Al Mack's comment about Di-Noc may have been a way around "foreign" wood!! However, it was not used on Buicks, at least to my knowledge. And my experience shows me that it was not used on the 49 Buick woodie. It does not deteriorate the same as wood, even painted wood. And I have a major collection of deteriorated wood, believe me!! But, thanks for your input Al, and yes, I do remember, er, I am old enough "to remember building the wooden airplane models with those decals?" But, frankly, I built way more car & wagon models than ??airplanes?? LOL Thanks for reminding me of my age!! LOL Also the experiences that comes with age!! The 50-53 Buicks had "mahogany" painted on the steel door-skins, surrounded with real American white ash, as the old dashes that were wood-grained, some of them more beautiful than actual wood, and consistently so!! With wood, you never know just how the wood grain will come out until you are finished!! Wood will throw you a curve ball, almost every time!! It is not easy to select the wood to give you optimum results, but when fake wood-grain is painted it can be awesome every time, assuming you are a true artist. And even if you are not, in this computerized age, just make a few changes and run it again until it is right!! Thanks for all input, I am not sure if my problem is fully solved, but it was fun. By the way, Pete, you mentioned you have (2) 49 Woodies in your garage (you lucky dog!!), but you note was only about one...how is the other one?? HMMMM! On another note, I am totally exhausted, I left here at 5AM with my trusty Dodge diesel and trailer to pick up another Buick Woodie, a 53. I drove all day, around LA (never through it unless have to, it is known here as hel-L A!!), left at 5AM, got back at 5PM, only was an hour or so to load and secure, all the rest was driving. Hey, it is a Buick, it was well worth it!! (OK, tomorrow, I may not agree when I awake, but tonight, all is good!!) Cheers to all, and thanks for any & all replies, Mike ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Hey, Bernie, the fuel you ran in your 50 Buick, way back then, where did it come from??? LOL Mike

Thanks, Pete, it did help a lot. My old and new wood is one piece on the doors, and 3 pieces on the rear quarter section, also. On the old quarter wood all three are ash, the middle one with the painting I described. The wagon I am working on had new rear quarter wood when it came here, done by the previous owner who is deceased now. He made the middle one using mahogany. I think I will have to remake it, though, since it doesn't fit worth a darn, and I will use ash. At least it will be consistent then. Thanks for the picture, it blows up really well, for details. Mike

I have run into a question about the 49 Buick Woodie. The wood is white ash, with mahogany inserts. My question is, how did they add the mahogany along each side? My old wood was badly weathered, but usable for patterns. My door pieces look like there are remnants of a paint process, not unlike the way dashes in the 30's & 40's were painted to look like wood, but are definately ash wood. It was not a veneer, as this would be obvious with aged wood, it would splinter, etc. I have been studying any pictures of restored wagons, and found a closeup of a door handle, with the mahogany showing. On that wagon, it looks like ash grain with a mahogany color, as if it was just stained. But ash grain and mahogany grain are very different. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Mike (Note: This is also posted in BCA General Forum.)

I have run into a question about the 49 Buick Woodie. The wood is white ash, with mahogany inserts. My question is, how did they add the mahogany along each side? My old wood was badly weathered, but usable for patterns. My door pieces look like there are remnants of a paint process, not unlike the way dashes in the 30's & 40's were painted to look like wood, but are definately ash wood. It was not a veneer, as this would be obvious with aged wood, it would splinter, etc. I have been studying any pictures of restored wagons, and found a closeup of a door handle, with the mahogany showing. On that wagon, it looks like ash grain with a mahogany color, as if it was just stained. But ash grain and mahogany grain are very different. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Mike

Bernie, I went back to your thread and looked over the pictures of the 50 wagon. The second picture, which I have added here, shows a definite angle projected by the rear fender. I would suspect that the floor is rotted beyond repair, wholly based on this picture. I have an extremely rusty 53, and the rear fenders are this way. It would be a difficult task to rework the floor and inner rear fender areas, since with the wood gone, there is not much to guide you to get it right. I would also suspect the door bottoms are pretty bad also, but perhaps you are good at repairing rust. Here in CA, wagons that sit out for 30 years get pretty rusty, but still have enough integrity to restore. I wouldn't think that would be the case in NY. But, perhaps another visit, with a chain saw is in order, to really assess it. You should go before it has to endure another winter!! I would be happy to help you in any way I can. As far as wood kits, no. Half the work is fabricating the pieces, the other half is fitting it. These were hand built wagons when new, but after 60 years, things can really change, so each one is a little different. Mike

And another... This one came here for all new wood, and it has 1-2 coats of varnish in these pics. I don't enjoy varnishing (it is truly a hassle!!), but do truly love to see the woodgrain start to blossom!! On this one, I carefully selected pieces that had an awesome grain, and one piece flows to the next, as much as possible. Not an easy task, since it is truly up to the piece of wood being shaped!! But, Mother nature smiled on me in this case, because I was thrilled!! When I restored my 51, I used 75% old wood, which is darker, naturally, so the new wood had to be darkened to match. ( I do not like to bleach old wood, it never comes out even, so I deal with it in its natural state.) But with all new wood, that is not necessary, hence the lightness, and accompanying grain structure showing. On my 51, with darker wood, the grain is there, but is not too photogenic. Cheers, Mike

And another one... This is another 51 Super, came here for a full set of new wood. I made the wood, but couldn't properly fit it, since the car was not fitting well. doors were way off, etc. So right now it has all the wood removed, and is out for paint, and alignment. I am looking forward to fitting the wood when it returns. Mike

OK, you guys, Woodie pictures it is!! The first one is a 1949 Super, came here with some wood already made and installed. I was just to finish it. Well, it doesn't always go that well!! It turns out that the new wood was not made very accurately, so the rear fenders do not fit, and upon fitting new wood to the doors, they don't match the rear quarter wood!! Oh, well we will work it out!! When it came here, it was painted only on the main body section. The hood, doors and fenders were just stripped and primed. I cannot fit the door wood if the doors are not properly fitted. So off it went to get the doors and fenders painted, fitted and aligned...except the rear fenders wouldn't fit!! That is when we discovered the problem!! On top of that, it had sat in storage for a few years, with bare wood, which darkens with age, and there were some watermarks, due to leaks, perhaps. So the new wood is whiter, and it will take some doing to make all match!! More on this one later, and on to some others!! Mike

When I got the '51, it was TOTALLY disassembled...there was just the main body section sitting on the bare-bones frame. We had to roll it on several 6" dia logs to winch it onto my trailer, which the seller donated for unloading. In those pictures, it is sitting on some dollies and the front clip and hood are barely tacked on, mainly for storage space. As are the rear fenders. The front suspension and rear end had been left outside for quite a while, and were pretty well rusted. I was very lucky to find an excellent rolling 2 door sedan chassis and engine for sale cheap. The seller had removed the body from a good running car to put on a modern chassis. I was planning to exchange the running gear over to the woodie frame, but when I set the frames side by side, I discovered they were the same!! That really motivated me, and moved the project well on it's way. (I later noticed the woodie frame was reinforced with strips welded to the bottom of the x-frame as is the convertible frame, so I still have to do that, not a hard job.) I'll try to post more pictures soon, Mike

To Robert & lancemb: I have just realized I don't need one, I have 2 already. So any of you guys out there that need one, have at them!! Thanks anyway. To Robert: great job!! You must have a good steady hand & a lot of patience!! Cheers, Mike

Hey Rob, I have been through this before... (and will again, as long as I possibly can!!) ...With a 1951 Buick Super Woodie (pics added), so I fully know what I am in for!! But, hey man...get out of your armchair, they are not really as hard as you may think, and with a little effort, you too could do one, and the feeling when you see your efforts...cannot be conveyed with words!! Not even remotely!! Not even pictures!!! I would be extremely happy and grateful to pass on anything I have learned, and talk you through the tougher parts, by phone or emails with pics...no problem!! The last 3 pics posted shows how the '51 looked upon arrival, well mostly!! It took 3 trips with my truck & trailer, you are seeing only one trip's load!! Now it is nearing completion, and sometimes that drags out, held up by a simple item!! But, it will show up, and on we go!! Meanwhile, there are still bargains to be had out there for derelict Woodies...ie: poor souls that have been left to the elements, which are particularly tough on Woodies, in any climate!! As time goes on, they only deteriorate worse, so save one, or two!! After all, Detroit, or Japan, China, whoever will never build anything even remotely like it again, so it is a lost treasure!! Unless we save them. Thanks for the kind words, Mike

So John, did you find your stainless? Probably did by now, but if not, I have one, Mike