Replace brake line question

[stvaughn]

1932 REO with 1/4” copper lines and I want to replace them with steel/SS/cu-nickel. What do you recommend? There’s some pretty tight bends involved. I intend to buy the proper tools for the job. 

Steve

[PFitz]

The copper/nickel is easier to bend and flair than SS and it won't corrode like plain steel brake tubing. It's all I use in my customer's late 1920s and 30's cars. 

 

Paul

[stvaughn]

16 hours ago, PFitz said:

The copper/nickel is easier to bend and flair than SS and it won't corrode like plain steel brake tubing. It's all I use in my customer's late 1920s and 30's cars. 

 

Paul

Thanks Paul, what’s a good source? 

Steve

[PFitz]

28 minutes ago, stvaughn said:

Thanks Paul, what’s a good source? 

Steve

 

 

Summit Racing has all the sizes of copper/nickel brake line you'll need.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/summit-racing/product-line/summit-racing-copper-nickel-alloy-tubing?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending

 

Use all new flair nuts, too. The old brass ones can sometimes have stress cracks from decades of outward pressure from being tightened against the tapered seat. Or they can become brittle and weak with age and zinc leashing out (the brass turns pink-ish). Then they may crack during use causing a loss of fluid pressure.

 

Use a standard tube flaring kit. No need to use a double flair on most pre-war, low pressure brake systems.  A single flair is fine and a double flair may be too thick to let the flair nut seat onto it's fitting with enough threads engaged.

 

Anneal the finished flair by heating cherry red and quickly quenching with water (copper anneals just the opposite way that steel does).  

 

Then twist the flair with a fist full of 4/0 steel wool to easily remove the heat tarnish and shine it back up.

 

Paul  

Edited September 12, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[stvaughn]

Thanks Paul, great information. Increased my knowledge base. 

 

Steve

[PFitz]

Your welcome, Steve.

 

Work slowly and carefully.  There are a few things to be aware of that help prevent leaks at a fitting caused by an uneven, and/or, wrong size flare.  

 

First is to make sure the tubing is cut perfectly square to the tube and deburred inside with a deburring cutter that comes folded into most good tubing cutters. A good tubing cutter is a must !!!!

 

Second is,  put the flaring clamp in a bench vice to help steady it.

 

Third is, make sure the tubing is perfectly square to the flaring clamp, the tubing clamp halves are at the same level, and that the tubing end is at the proper height in relation to the clamp before flaring.

 

Don't be afraid to practice on some tubing before you go for a finished flare. 

 

When your done, run some alcohol through the lines to make sure they're clean, then blow them dry with compressed air.  

 

Paul

Edited September 12, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Why anneal the Cunifer?  It works fine without annealing with double flares, just ask Volvo. I can understand if these early fittings will not accommodate a double flare, then you must use single flare. Is this an anneal if a single flare instruction?

 

Why would the earlier cars be lower pressure than post WWII cars? Different diameter of master cylinder? Different hinge point of the brake pedal? It's just physics....

[PFitz]

50 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

Why anneal the Cunifer?  It works fine without annealing with double flares, just ask Volvo. I can understand if these early fittings will not accommodate a double flare, then you must use single flare. Is this an anneal if a single flare instruction?

 

Why would the earlier cars be lower pressure than post WWII cars? Different diameter of master cylinder? Different hinge point of the brake pedal? It's just physics....

  Obviously, this is not a Volvo and it can be a mistake to think we can always extrapolate what's on new cars to old.

 

The earlier brake lines are thicker, heavier, and not supported as well as a Volvo. They bunce and flex more then those on a modern car. Plus, flaring tubing work hardens it at a point that bending/flexing might cause a problem, so annealing the flares is an added safety measure that does not negatively affect the tubing.  

 

Paul 

Edited September 12, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Would add, to buy a long tapered reamer for cleaning off any burrs in the end of the pipe after cutting.

[PFitz]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Would add, to buy a long tapered reamer for cleaning off any burrs in the end of the pipe after cutting.

 

Many tubing cutters already come with a swing-out deburring cutter, like this one from Sears.

https://www.sears.com/capri-tools-dutyklinge-copper-tubing-cutter-klinge-1-8-quot/p-SPM8821775602?plpSellerId=AutoToolGuys&prdNo=18&blockNo=18&blockType=G18

 

Home Depot, Lowes, Plumbing Supply, and many Autoparts and Hardware stores carry similar ones. 

 

Paul

Edited September 13, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

I used copper/nickel on my 1932 Dodge Brothers DL sedan.  It was easy to bend and flare, and matched the look of the original copper lines.  I bought all new line fittings, but used the original Lockeed junctions and brass fittings on the wheel cylinders.  I used silicon brake fluid, which has a tendency to leak more than standard fluid, but have never had any leaks from the lines or their fittings.  I used double flares and did not anneal them.  I’m not sure what annealing would do to the composite material in these lines - it’s not all copper.  Personally, I wouldn’t anneal them and I feel the double flare gives a much better seal.  All my fittings handled the double flare with absolutely no problems.  I don’t know who made the brakes on your REO, but if they’re Lockeed you shouldn’t have any problems.  Not trying to start a war here.  I’m sure PFitz is giving you the straight dope and basing it on his experience.  Go what ever direction you feel is correct.

[Rusty_OToole]

I mean one like this.

 

The ones that come attached to tubing cutters are nearly useless.

[PFitz]

I guess it's all in how you use it. 

 

I've never felt the need to use a tapered reamer because the deburring cutters that come on a decent tubing cutter  (not the junky cheap ones that don't cut tubing straight either ), have always worked fine for me.  I guess that's why they still sell so many brands/models of tubing cutters with the deburring cutters built in ??? 

 

But what do I know,... I've only been rebuilding brake systems and replacing brake tubing on antique autos for a full-time living for 40 years .

 

Paul

Edited September 13, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[stvaughn]

You guys have provided me with a lot of good information and I really appreciate it but please play nice. Everybody has their own “best way”.  I can assure you that I’ve done lots of things others think are totally unnecessary but when I get through I’m confident that it will be as good or better than it was when I started and it makes me happy. ?

 

Steve