Getting her started, slow progress

[Garysriv]

So, I have the '65 that has been sitting in a garage for decades and am going about trying to get it started....

 

I have replaced battery cables, plugs, wires, points, rebuilt the carb, (came out nice), set the timing, set the dwell, Marvel mystery oiled the cylinders, cranked with no plugs until OP light went out, which it did.  I bypassed the heater core because I'm worried if coolant flows thru the core may have a hole and flood the interior (I was surprised though that the afreeze was pretty green when I cut the hose).  Also disconnected the fuel pump from the varnish tank.

 

As noted in another post, compression on right side is at about 100 and very even across all cylinders, about 45 on the left and even.  I took the left VC off to see if I had some vales sticking open but I didn't, they all actuated nicely when I cranked it.  I have a remote start button hooked up to the starter so I can do it from under the hood.

 

So, what does this all get me so far?  Slow cranking and hints of combustion but not enough to get her going.  My last attempt Tuesday night was I put 12v direct to the coil from the battery.  I thought maybe this car had the resistor type coil wire in the harness so I wanted to get a full 12v to the coil.  Didn't seem to make a difference.

 

One thing I've been pondering is potential exhaust clog, but I'm not sure that would make it not start, maybe run bad, but not start?  Looking at the muffler I can see it had basically collapsed internally and the tailpipes have broken off.....I did notice that the right exhaust manifold has one of those heat risers on it, probably rusted shut, but that's also the side with the higher compression.......

 

It's probably still a few different things.  One thing I just don't think it cranks fast enough for an engine that's been sitting to get going, feel like I need it faster.  Thought I would hook up another battery and try jumping it.  Had one guy tell me to put 24V to the starter....hmmmm.  Definitely not something to do on todays cars, but I thought if I just hot wired it like that what would I burn up besides the starter potentially?  Anyway, that seems like a last resort.

 

[KongaMan]

26 minutes ago, Garysriv said:

My last attempt Tuesday night was I put 12v direct to the coil from the battery.  I thought maybe this car had the resistor type coil wire in the harness so I wanted to get a full 12v to the coil.

 

FYI, the resistor wire is bypassed while starting.  You get a full 12V to the coil.

 

And I don't want to ask a dumb question, but how do you set the timing and dwell on a non-running engine?

 

You can determine the state of the exhaust valve (open or closed) by looking at the position of the weight.

[Garysriv]

33 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

FYI, the resistor wire is bypassed while starting.  You get a full 12V to the coil.

 

And I don't want to ask a dumb question, but how do you set the timing and dwell on a non-running engine?

 

You can determine the state of the exhaust valve (open or closed) by looking at the position of the weight.

Yes, normally bypassed but wasn't sure using remote start button and not ignition.

 

I set the timing and dwell by taking out all the plugs , hooking up the timing light to the #1 plug.  Cranks pretty fast with no plugs.  Set the point gap with a feeler, then when cranking with a dwell meter, was a little low, so adjusted thru the window while cranking.  Both should be in the neighborhood enough for starting....

[Garysriv]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

You can determine the state of the exhaust valve (open or closed) by looking at the position of the weight.

 

Mu guess is in open position the weight should be at the bottom, or close to it?  Doubt it would freeze open, right?

 

 

[Seafoam65]

                        Have you actually pulled the coil wire out of the cap and held the end of it near a ground and checked for a hot spark

when cranking? If the spark is good, try priming the throat of the carb with B12 chemtool aerosol carb cleaner. The indication is that you have 

serious issues on the side of the engine with low compression . In my shop I've found that an engine that sits that long almost always needs a valve job

and the piston rings are usually stuck in the grooves of the pistons. On the compression issue, if you want to know what is going on, one cylinder

at a time rotate the engine till that cylinder has both valves closed, then blow compressed air into the cylinder and listen to where it comes out.

If it comes out the crankcase, the rings aren't sealing, if it comes out the throat of the carb, the intake valve has a problem, if it comes out the tail pipe, the exhaust valve has a problem.

[1965rivgs]

When you previously posted low compression on one side of the engine I did not realized you have low compression on the other side also. A healthy engine should be between 150 and 180 lbs on each cylinder. As I suggested before, you could have an issue if someone washed to the cylinder walls clean with gasoline or starting fluid but adding light duty oil to the cylinders should take care of that.

  Does the engine sound funny while cranking but not starting? Is it backfiring or spitting compression back out of the carb? I`m wondering if it has a bad timing chain. I dont often see that on a Nailhead but who knows? Those compression figures are really low

  Tom Mooney

[Garysriv]

1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

When you previously posted low compression on one side of the engine I did not realized you have low compression on the other side also. A healthy engine should be between 150 and 180 lbs on each cylinder. As I suggested before, you could have an issue if someone washed to the cylinder walls clean with gasoline or starting fluid but adding light duty oil to the cylinders should take care of that.

  Does the engine sound funny while cranking but not starting? Is it backfiring or spitting compression back out of the carb? I`m wondering if it has a bad timing chain. I dont often see that on a Nailhead but who knows? Those compression figures are really low

  Tom Mooney

Yeah, I think the 100 on the right side may be enough to start, but 45 on the left, I don't know.  Outside of the engine looks really good, like its never been apart,  but I think its just the sitting.  As seafoam noted above, my guess is rings stuck in the grooves.  If I could just get it running they may free up, but not sure I have enough compression pop to do that.  No backfires, you can hear it fire a little, and smell the combustion, but not enough pop to sustain it.

[Garysriv]

2 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

                        Have you actually pulled the coil wire out of the cap and held the end of it near a ground and checked for a hot spark

when cranking? If the spark is good, try priming the throat of the carb with B12 chemtool aerosol carb cleaner. The indication is that you have 

serious issues on the side of the engine with low compression . In my shop I've found that an engine that sits that long almost always needs a valve job

and the piston rings are usually stuck in the grooves of the pistons. On the compression issue, if you want to know what is going on, one cylinder

at a time rotate the engine till that cylinder has both valves closed, then blow compressed air into the cylinder and listen to where it comes out.

If it comes out the crankcase, the rings aren't sealing, if it comes out the throat of the carb, the intake valve has a problem, if it comes out the tail pipe, the exhaust valve has a problem.

spark is good.  Will have to try the compressor thing.  I'm thinking its mainly blown to the crankcase at this point.

[telriv]

Try advancing the timing 3/8ths. of an inch & see if that helps. Usually with low compression it will at least start & run.

[Garysriv]

2 hours ago, telriv said:

Try advancing the timing 3/8ths. of an inch & see if that helps. Usually with low compression it will at least start & run.

Thought about that but didn't do it, going to try again tomorrow, will give that a shot.