Engine trouble!

[Guest Zachk56]

Hello all! I'm having a bit of trouble figuring this out. I pulled into my work last night and hit a small bump. Immediately after I heard a noise and the steering wheel felt like it was being pulled as I could barely turn the wheel. I'm not much of a mechanic so any information will help. My question is if this is the motor mount? I will provide pics. 

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

You need to replace your engine cradle bushings and washers for them.  I used polyurethane bushings from fieros, along with washers from the same.  

Do a search for cradle bushings on the forum. There is tons of info.

[Ronnie]

From what I can see in your photos the engine cradle bolts had failed. It is usually caused by rust but I don't see that much rust on your car. You are lucky that it happened where it did. You could have been killed if you had been driving down the road. You may find this information useful. Engine Cradle/Sub-Frame Bushing Replacement

 

Here is an example of a similar failure..

 

 

[Guest Zachk56]

Thank you both very much! I'm happy it did too, I was previously on a highway doing 80..

[KDirk]

Yeah, the original  design of the subframe bushings on the Reatta is substandard  in my view. Later E and K platform cars had a different design  that have much heavier bushings and thicker steel retainers  that are heavier duty design. The later type can be used on the Reatta in lieu of the original  type, and the Dorman parts are much like the later, better GM design. Since the OEM parts are no longer  available,  it is kind of a moot point.

[Barney Eaton]

Just a wild guess......you live in the rust belt

[KDirk]

Gee Barney, ya think? That pic Ronnie posted makes me shudder. If that happened at speed, ouch. One thing to point out on the original stock cradle insulator design is that it was a big hunk of cast steel with rubber vulcanized onto it. The problem with this is that once the steel starts to rust and expand it separates from the rubber portion forcing an eventual catastrophic failure. Another problem is that the bushing has a full steel sleeve that the bolt goes through. This compounds the rust with steel on steel, and makes removal and replacement more difficult. The later design is just two stiff rubber bushings with an upper and lower steel  retainer and center bolt. This may soften the handling a bit, but is a more reliable design for long-term use.

[DAVES89]

As most of you guys know I use the Black for a winter car. When we swapped out the tranny I took real interest in the cradle bolts. I am happy to say that they still look good. Although one of the cage nuts was rusted tight. We used a cutting wheel to make a little door to get at it and when we were done I took it to another friend who welded it back up.

Edited March 26, 2017 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[jonlabree]

I'm moving to Texas, They don't have any rust.

[KDirk]

^ Correct as to the bolts being available. The original design bushings are not available, making their use in service a non-issue. Another tidbit on the original versus later design as that the original design bushing is raw steel, unpainted. The later type (replicated by Dorman) has painted steel retainers washers, affording a bit more rust resistance. I have seen the lower portion of the original type rust almost completely away around the bolt. Honestly, this design sucks even if they did last 25-30 years. Probably what caused GM to update the design around 92/93 and again in the late 90's. Then too there is the issue of the cradle itself rusting to the point of structural compromise, which can happen on rust belt cars. Interesting to note the 94-99 Riviera had a major problem with this. I suspect the use of lower grade steel or poor painting of the cradle (or both) contributed to this. 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by KDirk (see edit history)

[KDirk]

Go ahead and order them. Even odds you get a follow-up saying they are unavailable.  The catalog show the part number, and the fact they have failed to mark it discontinued simply means their database management is lousy. I could list a couple of dozen GM part numbers that pertain to the Reatta that are not available, even though multiple  dealer parts sites like the one pictured  continue to show them available for order. I know because they are parts I've already tried to order and got the big kiss off after they realized they couldn't fill the order.

 

You do realize these sites are simply using a common  database to produce their listings,  and the veracity of that data is often in question - at least so far as a part still being available? Recall  the recent discussion on the intermediate parking brake cables.  a couple of places show the part number for order (aftermarket parts, not OEM in this case) and then after the order is placed  they contact  the customer and tell them it is not in stock and cannot be located. Same kind of thing there. The data simply doesn't reflect reality.

 

These outfits that sell factory parts online (generally just GM dealers who've  setup to retail parts via a website front end)  are not stocking these parts in most cases. They are taking your order, forwarding it to GM SPO who then drop ships the order; assuming they can fill it to begin with. When SPO tells them "discontinued, none on hand" they come back and cancel the order. Been there and done that many times in the past ten years now. That they fail to update the database is outside my control and apparently is either out of laziness or incompetence.

 

issue of front bushings was beat to death here on this forum in couple of years back. Much tooth-gnashing and hand wringing occurred  when it was found the bushings could no longer be ordered as the supply had dried up. I did a national search via my local dealer  (had a very patient parts guy working there who humored my parts conquests) at the time and culled enough parts from about a dozen dealers scattered around the US to do two cars  worth (12 bushings, retainers and hardware). I had to settle for some parts of different specs used on 92/93 Riviera and late 90's Eldorados just to get two complete sets. This was before the Dorman bushings - which are not spec' d for the Reatta incidentally - were determined to be a good substitute.  Otherwise I'd  not have wasted the effort to chase down factory parts to begin with. So there is the basis on which I make the statement  the original bushings are not available. Unless a hidden supply of these was uncovered sometime in the last two years, I see no reason why the status of these parts would have changed.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by KDirk (see edit history)

[KDirk]

Yeah, I wish they would get their act together on this stuff. I think this issue is that there are so few orders for these parts that they are off the radar, so to speak. If many orders were being placed for them, and then subsequently having to be cancelled, the part numbers in question would probably be updated in the interest of reducing customer irritation.

 

I don't know what goes on inside the depths of GM SPO (service parts  operations division) but I get the sense they aren't Much concerned with this stuff as it all 30 year old parts with so little demand they aren't going to have staff spend time checking the availability status of probably  dozens if not hundreds of part numbers that are miscategorized as still being available even when they aren't . That would require  many hours of work to research and correct, and they probably take the view that there is no value in the effort. Keep in mind too that a part can be both discontinued and still available  if there is residual inventory on hand. So, there is probably a lag time between when the last inventory on hand is sold through and the availabilty status  is changed to unavailable.  

 

In the rare instance someone orders a part number that isn't actually  available (depsite showing it is) they simply can that order and send the customer a sorry, you're outta luck email. It may also be that some dealer parts sites are using a local copy of the database that is older and doesn't reflect current parts status straight  from GM. Without seeing the underlying working details of their website back end, I've no way of knowing. But, I've had many orders kicked back when the cart accepted my order, only to have a dealer parts rep contact me a couple of days later to advise they couldn't ship the items I ordered. 

 

And on that obscene shipping charge, that is a common practice with many of these dealer parts sites. They do this to pad the discounted parts price. I find the practice rather stupid, they should just charge what they need to to clear a decent margin. It's like the airlines offering a cheap fare and then nickel and diming you to death with add on fees for every conceivable thing.  That seems to be a pervasive  business practice  in many sectors of the economy now though. People put up with it, so companies keep doing it.

[Ronnie]

I'm all for finding new sources of hard to find parts. That is something as Reatta owners we all need. However, I think it would really be helpful if we only posted links to parts that we know, with a reasonable degree of certainty, are actually available. That would include parts that we have purchased, parts that we have called about to verify they are in stock, and that can be verified to be in stock by having first hand knowledge that someone else purchasing them

 

One of the reasons a lot of auto parts websites list parts that they don't actually have in stock is for search engine optimization. Each time a hit is made on their website, no matter if they actually have the part listed available or not, it helps their Google ranking. When you do a search for a part that is no longer available that is the reason you find them and not the mainstream auto parts websites like RockAuto. They want your to find their website at the top of the search engine list so they can sell parts they DO have in stock.

 

As a group, we are not helping anyone by shotgunning a bunch of links to websites without having prior knowledge that the part is actually available.  There are a lot of websites that will allow you to add a part that is unavailable to their shopping cart. Even the Reatta Store will allow that sometimes. I wish it didn't but I have no control over that.

 

The bottom line is if we would only post links to websites that we are familiar with, and we know have the part that is needed, we could avoid wild goose chases that lead to a dead end, which is just a big waste of everyone's time.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Ronnie (see edit history)