Guest Smitty168 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Here's something some of you may be looking for. My old sedan has been kept together over the years with baling wire and whatever was handy. All in all the previous owners did a pretty good job of it. The Battery Tray that's in there now came out of who knows what. It holds the battery ok but it sits way up high and won't allow the Battery Cover to fit over it. This means that the tools are flopping around under the seat just waiting for an opportunity to short out the battery and maybe start a nice car fire. Not good! JPAGE was kind enough to take me by the hand and help me out with this. Not only did he find me a correct Battery Cover but he also made up a PROFESSIONAL drawing of the correct Battery Tray. Thanks Jim. I took Jim's drawing to a local outfit that is in the business of building race cars for different team sponsors. He looked the drawing over and agreed to make up a tray for me. As it turns out, he made three (3) trays. He says he got carried away. I told him that I would pass the word on this Forum since I suspect that there are more than one of you guys with the same "rusted away tray" problem. The fabricator's name is RUSTY SMITH (no relation). His business is called LITTLE BOY's SHOPRte 12Oxford, NY 13830607-843-6203I told Rusty I would pass the word and his phone number. He only has two of these trays left. I think he'll want $120 each plus shipping.I've attached pictures here.Good luck and thanks to all you guys for your advice and counsel as I get this car up and running.Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smitty168 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Guys,Forgot to mention is original post. He did not punch mounting holes in the tray in order for me to make sure of alignment. I'll drill out the holes in the correct spot once I've lined everyting up.Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Nice tray and thanks for passing on the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This is the actual tray for the '36 Dodge and Plymouth. You have a nice looking reproduction there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Oh man.. I thought mine was an original as it came out of one of the cars!(I know that's not always a good assumption) Were there different styles during production, perhaps something outsourced? That's a bummer,need to apologize to Smitty! In any case ,it's better than no battery box! Who ever looks under there any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Oh man.. I thought mine was an original as it came out of one of the cars!(I know that's not always a good assumption) Were there different styles during production, perhaps something outsourced? That's a bummer,need to apologize to Smitty! In any case ,it's better than no battery box! Who ever looks under there any way?The ends could always be made and added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smitty168 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't see the problem. The Tray that JPAGE drew up and the fabricator made for me is Clean, Functional and Attractive. To reproduce the original as shown in 1936D2's photos would add more money to the costs of fabrication. This for a componant that is hidden from all view except from a very skinny person willing to crawl under the car. When installed, the battery hold down keeps everything tight and secure.I don't plan to submit my car to Concourse Judging. Pretty sure I'm not the only one either. My car will be a fun to driive Cruise In baby. She won't be a Trailer Queen. Not sure there are too many "ORIGINAL" 1936 DB's out there anyway. If a guy could afford to to restore a D2 to original 'factory' condition, he probably would loan it to a museum and never drive it. JPAGE has been an inspiration and mentor to me throughout my rebuild. I'm a JPAGE fan. He says it's original, it's original. The one Jim copied was probably an aftermarket solution to the eternal rust problem. Maybe Chrysler suggested this as a solution to it's dealers. Anybody know??I'm keeping my new battery tray. Going to prime it and paint it this week.Keep the faith.Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't see a problem with it, either. I merely mentioned that the sides could be added for a more original restoration, not knowing what your plans were for the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smitty168 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Keiser,Oh, I wasn't responding to your reply. Just thought that sometimes the quest for "originality" gets out of hand. If the battery looks like it might jump out of the tray I may weld a couple of straps on each end. Don't think so though. Here's a little secret, I'm going to put an Optima battery in there. Look at the pictures and you'll see the "battery" shown is really an empty plastic case made to hold an Optima. I also own a 1930 Model A as well as a 1951 Ford Crestliner. The Crestliner has won several First's. I restored it as close as I could get to 'factory'. There is a saying among judging groups which goes "Don't kill the car". In other words, give the owner a break. Factory original screws and nuts aren't an absolute requirement. Best,Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I did notice the "hollow" MoPar battery. Very cool item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I'm kinda embarrased that I made that kind of booboo! And I'm all for originallity! I do remember having a box similar to the one 1936D2 has pictured in one of my other cars although there wasn't quite as much left to it. I'll probably use the one I have. It really looks like an original style box as it is pretty heavy gauge and the bolts are actually fastened with 16ga. straps welded to the box. It also fits like it's made for it ,not like some "universal" aftermarket parts! Could it possibly be a late production part? I do appreciate getting the correct info on these cars but if someone needs a new box I think the price is good! 1936D2, is that an extra box or one of your good parts? Edited June 8, 2012 by jpage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIClassicGirl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Smitty, would he (Rusty) be interested in making one for a Victory Six? Our box is about shot! And for that money, I'd definately buy one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) ...Could it possibly be a late production part? I do appreciate getting the correct info on these cars but if someone needs a new box I think the price is good! 1936D2, is that an extra box or one of your good parts? I'm thinking it may be a later model Mopar product that some people may have used as a replacement for a corroded out one some time in the past. The one I showed in the photo is the same as I have seen on five different original '36 Dodge cars now. I have seen the one as the remanufactured shown above but I don't specifically remember where or the particular application. As "smitty168" said, it is utilitarian. Better than no box at all or a rusty original! It all depends on what is sent to a remanufacturer as to how the job is done. I would hazard a guess, that if you had brought the box with the ends in to the guy originally, the price of THAT finished box copy would have been similar. (Not the case now if brought to the same guy. It would of course be more because of adding the ends.) The material is not the cost item, it is the labor. And there really is not much more to making the ends. Again, I don't think it is a big deal. The battery will still fit there and the Optima will be well protected inside the hollow "Willard" style shell. The box as manufactured above will be fine. I am just one that is all about the original look. If I had it done, (which I did once for another car), I would have had it done in the style of the closed end version just because of knowing about the "five original car samples". Forgot to answer "jpage"s question... The box shown in my earlier post is from an original '36 Dodge that was being parted out. I have purchased that box. It is an "extra" part. I was thinking about using it in the car that I had the replicant made for. Undecided.Hope to not be getting on "smitty168"s bad side with all this! Edited June 8, 2012 by 1936 D2 answered question. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smitty168 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Classic Girl,Don't know if he would be interested or not. Why not give him a call at the posted number above. If you can produce accurate drawings and / or detailed photo's Rusty may take the job.Hope he helps you out.Regards,Smitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 From the beads on the bottom yours might have been original and the sides rusted out so some one pealed them off "1936 d2 " is right what he is showing is an original box and I have 3 cars with the same box. Ill bet your guy can break out 2 end panels and spot weld them to the box you have ant it would look as the original 1936 box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 These are definetly two different boxes. The original ,as pictured by 1936d2 looks abit shorter in height and is more boxy. Originally,the carrier I have had 3/4 in.diameter dimples in three rows on the bottom for drainage and the bolts were fastened by welded steel straps. I changed the drawing to show channels as I thought the dimples would be hard to reproduce. Actually the grooves should run the other way! In any case ,it's still a nice repro and will work. The man who made these might be willing to make other small parts as it's getting harder to find anyone to make short runs or one-offs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yea im guessing he put the raised dimples to keep the bottom of the battery off the bottom of the box . But as you know it doesn't take long of some 2012 changes or what people consider improvements to really change a car . A person keeps doing that and when hes done you look back at the car and some thing is wrong but you just cant put your finger on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smitty168 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 For what it's worth, my guess is that the newer design was done by somone who knew what he was doing. This is not some quick fix, slap it in and move on down the road item. I'm thinking that some after market outfit, maybe even the factory designed it for the mechanic. Installing and removeing the battery cover and battery are much easier and quicker with the newer design. My thought anyway.Smitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Better yet you could put the battery on the fire wall under the hood and make it much easier and quicker , and wont have to freak out when u hit a bump or some thing in the road and wonder if the terminals got jammed against the sheet metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) When I bought my car, I had found the "old guy" that had it originally had moved the battery to the firewall. This was a "practical" move, he had considered, in an effort to assist starting in sub-freezing weather by having much shorter battery cables. Nice idea, but poor in practice. The only place to put the battery under the hood was directly in front of the driver and high on the firewall, above the starter. This made it hard to service the brake master cylinder and kind of got in the way of oil filter changes. But the worst part was the fact that invariably there would be acid vapor, liquids and corrosion from the battery near the "new" battery tray. The main electrical wire bundle from inside the car came out of the firewall right next to the battery. By the time I was looking at the car, almost all of the insulation was gone from those wires! I separated them a bit and sprayed them with a heavy coat of varnish in an attempt to stave off a fire until I could get the wiring harness replaced. (That job had then just climbed to the top of the priority list, along with moving the battery back to its proper design location.)If you have all of the engineering as the original guys had designed, you really have no worries. There was a battery hold down strap to keep the correct size battery in place. There was a metal lid to the battery box to protect the connections to the top of the battery and the whole top of the battery box. This also protected the interior of the car in case of a hydrogen gas explosion of the battery. There was a large rubber protective gasket on the bottom of the smaller removable, wing nutted inspection cover on the lid that also protected the connections. The battery box itself had the end covers to protect the sides of the battery from road debris. The design of this had partially open corners, again to relieve the pressure of an hydrogen explosion if one occurred and also to normally keep the battery box vented so that hydrogen gas did not build up.If all this design is in place with the correct size cables for the connections, and clean connections on both ends, there should be NO PROBLEMS at all with starting or safety during normal use.Again, do it like the original designers specified and all is good! Edited June 12, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 lol I was just being sarcastic I'm like you a firm believer in the fact every thing car was thought out and designed to be one way and thats the way it came . Just using the a fule pump a few years newer that and no visible difference caused me a problem. These things were designed to hand crank that's just a few turns , my car now starts on about 1/2 a turn now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Just look in your parts books and it easliy seen that there were no changes made with that battery box for quite some time, in my opinion while I apprecaite the guys efforts for making that box ( he did not know any better and did a nice job ) the new box outa put put in the crusher and the right box oughta be made and installed in the proper place. We have at least 4 of these incorrect boxes at this point that we know of and that is going to cause someone a great deal of confusion down the road when these cars need to be re-re-stored. There will be some heated discussions and it may come to people throwing their hands up in the air over just not knowing what is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yea im guessing he put the raised dimples to keep the bottom of the battery off the bottom of the box . But as you know it doesn't take long of some 2012 changes or what people consider improvements to really change a car . A person keeps doing that and when hes done you look back at the car and some thing is wrong but you just cant put your finger on it From having some experience with this sort of thing I can almost guarantee that the raised ribs/dimples whatever you want to call them were a mistake, he punched them on the wrong side and just went with it because he figured no-one would care/notice, ask me how I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 ...the new box outa put put in the crusher and the right box oughta be made and installed in the proper place....Your "political correctness" is slipping again Jason. Maybe it could be more like... "This box could be sold to someone who needs that style and, now that we know the correct version, Smitty168 may be able to talk him into some of those!" :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think everyone has misinterpreted the dimples. I said that the battery carrier I have(the one that was copied) had 3 rows of 3/4 in.diam.dimples in the floor instead of 3 continuous channels. I drew it differently on purpose so it would be easier to manufacture except when it was copied, the channels are running the wrong way! I concur that the part I copied is not original to the '36 Dodge and I also agree whenever possible it's best to use the original parts but the new repro is still a good replacement for a "driver" car,which most of the '36's out there are. I would not overlook a car with this type carrier as opposed to some of the other outlandish"improvements" some people have come up with! I would be interested to find out who made this carrier and if it was an aftermarket replacement. Is the Plymouth or Desoto carriers the same as Dodge or not? Like I said it's not a junk carrier,so it seems that it had an intended purpose! Please don't put down the metal man who made it. He did a good job of reproducing the item at a fair price and very quickly too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) I like the box and it took me 1 try on ebay and then buying another parts car to get a box it wouldent take 2 seconds to add the sides and take a grinder flatten out the all thread starting from the top of the box down where the orginal has a flattened rod Edited June 12, 2012 by amigo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The idea isn't to try to rebuild the repro box into something that it is not. Add what you will,but it will still not be correct. Let's look at it for what it is and try to find out if it was a replacement,like an aftermarket dealer item or just a "PEPBOY'S" SPECIAL! It was copied from a production part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) The idea isn't to try to rebuild the repro box into something that it is not. Add what you will,but it will still not be correct. Let's look at it for what it is and try to find out if it was a replacement,like an aftermarket dealer item or just a "PEPBOY'S" SPECIAL! It was copied from a production part! Might help if you posted a picture of the box you thought at the time was original, maybe we can put a date to it if we can see its true design. If its really old than might not be any way of finding out who made it although I do have quite a few aftermarket acces catalogs from this time period but problem with them is that the majority of the pict. are pretty small and not well detailed. Just for clarification I hope you dont think I was puttin down the guy that made it, I thought I was pretty clear that he has no blame on this Edited June 13, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I say this .....Finish the car and if the box is bothering him after the car is all done 10 years later and he has some extra time he can be looking for an original box on eBay one will come up. If you get stuck on the battery box most likely you will never finish the car and it will be on eBay as "only needs this only needs that " like so many others. good chance all the bs ya go through finishing a car the box wont mean chit when you get that far and if it dose easy fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Smitty if ya haven't noticed most ppl here including myself use to work on the Dodge assembly line back in 1936 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I say this .....Finish the car and if the box is bothering him after the car is all done 10 years later and he has some extra time he can be looking for an original box on eBay one will come up. If you get stuck on the battery box most likely you will never finish the car and it will be on eBay as "only needs this only needs that " like so many others. good chance all the bs ya go through finishing a car the box wont mean chit when you get that far and if it dose easy fix I dont think Smitty plans to lose a wink of sleep over this box but it does make for interesting banter amongst ourselves and we all learn a little something so its all good as they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Smitty if ya haven't noticed most ppl here including myself use to work on the Dodge assembly line back in 1936 I still have my employee badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Amigo,I didn't think you or anyone else on this thread was that old..you must be about 96 or older to work in an assembly plant in 1936!!! I don't really understand your posts.. the thread was to offer a replacement part ,one that was mistaken to be an original part (my mistake) to any one who might need it and to let folks know that there is a company that may be willing to reproduce individual parts. The option of whether or not to use a part that may not be an assembly line part is purely up to the individual. I will be sending pics of the box soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 jpage it is fascinating to me how these cars were made and how little the basic things have changed over 75 years I did have a 53 ford in high school and I can say with no doubt that this 1936 car of dodges was a lot better designed and a better car than that 1953 ford. It still amazes me how the body parts were stamped and who made the stamp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The hard part of the box has to be the cover wouldent you say , I was lucky to have one in the trunk of the parts car in great shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Little known fact concerning original battery boxes is that the box for the 29/30 DA ( not saying the entire prod. run although it would not surprise me ) was made up of steel much like the original 36 box in this post but used wood as well within it to offer a cushion for the battery in the chance of its bouncing. Sorta gives you and idea I guess of the roads people were still putting up with this late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Here's some pics of the box we copied. Maybe someone can identify it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Style looks older to me, but not as old as the car's original late '30's styling. I would take this to be a '50's or '60's replacement aftermarket part, like a J.C. Whitney or such. Let's see if I am right as time goes by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) OK. So here is a NORS (New Old Replacement Stock) battery box offered by the eBay seller of MOPAR products - fmmpar out of GA. (This is one of the sellers I am always boggled by because of the excessively high prices put on items. Check it out.) 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939-40 mOpAR PDSC BATTERYTRAY | eBayThis could be an indicator of the notion that the box "jpage" speced for remanufacture was a replacement part from sometime in the past. Edited June 16, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 That be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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