64 Riv with 2x4bbl

[Guest ewing]

Any one heard of a KW code 425 that had/has a dealer installed 2x4 bbl set up?

I am going to look at a 64 that has the factory 2x4 set up and all the right engine trim, but the owner isn't sure what the block id is. I will be looking at it later this week hopefully.( I'm hoping I see KX, not KW!)

Also this car is for sale, full body off frame restoration, frame repaired and painted, ( rust at rear body mount locations) rebuilt top end, new interior complete, rechromed all bumpers and refinished SS.

Body work is all done but color not sprayed yet. Delux interior, all power windows, optional riv wood steering wheel.

Needs engine and transmission reinstalled and trim reinstalled.

Current owner wants to sell as is.

One concern is of course that there are no missing pieces.

Any opinions as to value at this stage? How does $6,500 (USD) sound?

Thriller... if you are reading this, it would be premature to discuss this possible acquisition with Carol!!! I may need to hide it for a while, but it is the missing decade in my car list...

[RivNut]

KW is the engine code for all 1964 425's and YES the 2x4 set up was available as a dealer installed option. There was no GS option in 1964 just an option that upgraded the engine to "Super Wildcat" status - 360 hp and 465 lb. ft. of torque. I'm pretty sure that the only X code engine was the LX that came in 1965. In 1966 the 2x4 set up was at first a dealer installed option but towards the middle of the production year some MZ engines were produced that had the 2x4 setup installed at the factory. In other words GO FOR IT and congratulations on your find. On the same surface as you'll find the KW numbers on the left, look on the right to find the VIN number. It should match the VIN number on the cowl tag. If it's a numbers matching car, the next thing you might want to do is date code the manifold to the date code on the Fisher Body plate. I'd also check to make sure that the carbs are the correct numbers for 1964 for both the front and the rear carb.

[Guest ewing]

Thanks Ed,

Can you tell me, did the option include posi? or was that a separate option. I'm told it has posi. Is there a number on the rear that identifies a posi? or do I have to check it ' the hard way', by raising the rear and spinning a wheel...

And for the carbs, can you tell me what to check to verify they are the right ones for the car ( as in a Buick factory carb?)

Thanks,

John

[BellHorsepower]

Check it the hard way? Dude! Punch it ,check it the fun way! sheesh. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest ewing]

Hey, I'd love to! But for now I have to settle. Cause the engine is sitting on a pallet beside the car. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[NTX5467]

In many cases, back then, the limited slip differential was visually identified by a red plastic, semi-circular, tag attached to the rear axle's drain/refill plug (which had the special fluid notification cast into it). Back then, there was a special part number lube for limited slip differentials--the "normal/universal lube" + additive came later.

The earlier limited slip rear axles were "locked until they unlock" (i.e., with springs keeping the clutch packs engaged until they had to slip to allow for a turn or corner situation). For reference, the newer ones are "unlocked until they lock", which have an internal governor weight that swings out to engage the clutch pack or "locker" device.

Sounds like a neat vehicle!

NTX5467

[RivNut]

On the bottom of the differential part of the housing there's a stamped X inside a circle on posi equipped cars. The posi rear end would have been a separate option. I did some checking since my first post and found some references to a KX engine, but there were still dealer options. If you want the complete skinny on the GS models and the 64 Super Wildcat option that preceded the GS, check out the ROA's website www.rivowners.org and open the link on feature articles. Then click on any of the other links and study them; look at all of them until you feel that you're familiar with what you're looking at. There you'll also find all the different codes for options etc. One thing to be aware of is that the 64 ST400 (Buick's designation for the Turbo Hydro 400) is different for 64 than all other years. You'll notice that the shifter quadrant has only L and D, but it is a three speed automatic. Other rare options are rear window defroster, adjustable arm rest between the rear buckets, AM/FM with the Reverberator, power vent windows, cornering lights, guidematice - auto headlight dimmer, twilight sentinel - turns headlights on when it's dark. Don't let anyone tell you that leather was an option in 64; 63 was the last year for that. Look for rust in the corners of the rear window, you can tell if the window seal is broken if the trunk floor is rusted where the body bolts are. There was a vacuum operated automatic trunk latch available too, there's a big vacuum pump in the glove box. You pull the handle and 'woosh' the trunk unlocks. The fisher body plate will tell you some of the options the car originally came with. If Fisher had to modify the body for something, it's on the plate. i.e. power windows, rear defroster, remote mirror, air conditioning. Things like tissue dispensers which could be bolted on at the dealership are not on that plate. Read the articles until you feel that you're qualified to look at the car without help. It's all in there. If you're really serious, the best investment you can make, besides joining the ROA, is to purchase a factory chassis manual for the year car you're looking at. Good luck.

[RivNut]

Sorry, you asked about carb numbers. For cars with automatic transmissions, the rear carb is a 625 CFM Carter AFB #3646, and the front (no choke, no idle circuits) is a 625 CFM Carter AFB #3645. If the car is equipped with the finned aluminum valve covers, make sure the rear bracket for the a/c compressor is correct. Stock brackets won't clear the taller valve covers. The bracket for the switch for the transmission passing gear (yes, it's electric) is unique for the 2x4 set up as well. I don't know the numbers but check the number for the distributor, I think they too were different with the 2x4 setup. I know that those motors were timed differently.

[Guest imported_kbm]

The 1964 Riviera was available with the factory option KX code. I believe there were 2122 of these Super Wildcat Rivieras.

Kenneth

[Guest ewing]

To all you guys who replied, great info , thanks.

I hope to get a peek at it this weekend and I'll take pictures, look for id info, and give you all an update. May even have a few more questions!

Cheers.

John

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Hey John - you need help looking at that? Might be fun.

When it comes down to it, what's it worth to get me not to tell Carol? If you are missing the '60s, I could probably sell you the Special, but not until I have another driver <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Mr Riviera]

KX is the proper factory code for 64 with the 2 x 4 intake. If its not KX someone added it. It would also have the Alum. Valve Covers.

[Guest ewing]

Looks like I'm going to have to wait a week, maybe 2, before I can get a look at it.

When I do I will post an update. I'm told it may be a dealer installed 2x4, but it does have the correct chrome air cleaner and aluminum [bUICK] valve covers. The current owner hasn't seen the car for a while and he didn't locate the block code, before it went to the shop. So who knows what it might be!

[Guest ewing]

Hey Derek,

Are you up for a short road trip this weekend?

I am going to look at the car and the drive train this weekend. Planning to check out all those casting and serial numbers, to see whats what.

Its about a half hour drive from home.

I just waiting for a comfirmed time, could be saturday or sunday, don't know yet!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

I'll have my camera....

[Guest ewing]

Saw the car today and here's what I know now;

the bore is measured as 4.43 in with 40 over pistons

the book says a 425 has a bore of 4.3125

401 has a bore of 4.18

the block casting # is 1364704; that is a 425 block

the head casting # is 1196914; that is correct for 425 block ( plus 364 and 401, 59 to 66)

We know the carbs are correct, they are correct Carter AFB #3646 and 3645.

The block production # and id # that should match the car vin is ground off and someone has hand punched some numbers in to the fron edge that looks like

'L W 401' why they did that ... who knows.

Question:

does the 40 over make sense for a 425 block, from factory?

The top of the engine is torn down, but we did see the finned BUICK valve covers.

The interior and body hardware is comletely stripped out, but the owner is confident it is all at his place ( separate from the body and engine.

The ACC are

EXNTS-2R-3B-4F-5WK

It is nicely optioned, vacuum trunk release, wood like wheel, Nice WW colour; Diplomat Blue. Only big option missing is the AC

It has a posi tag on the diff.

Trim 621 optional blue vinyl, which I'm told it completely redone ( out of car)

Redone panels, new roof liner, new carpet, nothing in interior is in the car though. Didn't see, but the SS is supposed to be all 'water sanded', and bumpers rechromed, new tail lights. Only thing we could see as not part of the deal is the trunk liner.

Most of the body metal is repaired, some minor rust perf left to do in the trunk.

Boxes of pieces, and one fear I have is that there will be missing pieces, like door hardware, and the like.

So the price is $8000 CDN, that's about $6500 USD.

I am struggling with this one as it is so torn down, but...when done!, what a car.

I guess I have a day or so to decide.

[Guest ewing]

a 425 block cast number

original id numbers ground off and punched in new numbers, very strange...

[Guest ewing]

body

str wheel front end

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Some of these photos look vaguely familiar. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Of course, I like the new signature too.

Overall, it looks like a decent car and you wouldn't take a bath (like I really know since I keep doing it) in terms of the value of the car <span style="font-weight: bold">assuming</span> that all the unique bits are there like the seller says they are. Something didn't add up with the seller's story...not a big deal, except it goes to trust. If everything is delivered with the car, and everything is new / redone as described, then it isn't a bad deal for someone interested in re-assembling a car.

[nooshinjohn]

if you are still looking for a car please let me know. my 63 is for sale and is in fantastic over all condition.

it is an all original white over red leather car with a matching number 425. only 2500 or so were built with this motor in 63. the car has ac,pwr windows,delux interior trim,am/fm and pwr antena that still works. the engine has been rebuilt from carb to oil pan, with the pistons taken .030 over. the dynaflow has been gone thru as well. front end is all new as is the drive shaft and exhaust. currently the car is my daily driver and has never let me down. only 2k miles since all this work has been done. the car has never been restored and has only been repainted once about 25 years ago. there is the usual rust in the bottom of the rear window, but the rest is 100% rust free. the car also has an interesting if unverified history. im looking to get around 10k for it if you are interested, and it is easier to transport than a bunch of parts. the wife may also be able to actually see what you bought as a car and appreciate it for what it is....

John <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest ewing]

The 64 is kind of like opportunity knocking, with a car with the 2x4, and the TH400 1st year, and posi rear end... and so close to home! Yea it is a truck full of pieces to be sure!

Your 63 sounds like a beautiful car and with the white over red leather, that has to be my favourite combination! And a 425 and AC to boot.

Where is the car? and do you have any pictures you can email to me? Don't want to lead you along, but I'd sure like to see more of your car!

Thanks,

John

[nooshinjohn]

here are some pics... i will take a few amore and load them tommorow... how do you load them?

my email address is nooshinjohn@sbcglobal.net. i will send them to you outside the forum. just email me when you get a chance and they will be on the way. car is located in California, and has been for most of its life, the other in texas prior to 1969.

[RivNut]

If the engine in question started out with a bore of 4.3125 and it's been bored .040 (forty thousandths) then it should measure 4.3525. A bore of 4.43 would indicate that it's been bored 0.1125 inches. Those cylinder walls are almost tissue paper thin if that's the case.

[Guest ewing]

Yea, I think he must have measured it wrong.

Not sure how, as he is a diesel mechanic ...I'm thinking that he may have read the guage wrong. Not sure.

It did have 40 over pistons in it.

Very tempting, but I have concerns in getting all the parts together and in to my possession.