Venting

[Guest]

I have just recieved my monthly copy of The Buick Bugle.It once again reminds me of my lack of interest in older Buicks. Why is it that as a member of the BCA's Reatta division that I am compelled to be a member of BCA? Here is another piece of mail that I do not want arriving in my mailbox. Why waste the paper and postage for a group who has no interest?<BR>Sorry. I just wanted to get that off my chest.<BR>AJ

[Guest]

Don't know why I can't keep my mouth shut, but I have to an "amen" to your thoughts. This past summer, we received an invitation to our local Buick club picnic. It was at a local park, only minutes from our house, so we decided to go. About eight Buicks: one very nice Wildcat convertible, several old '60s Rivieras unrestored; a '39 or '40 coupe that looked like it was painted with a broom, and various other uninteresting stuff. We parked (about 20 feet from the picnic tables and gorgers) and walked around the cars on display. Not a single person greeted us or even waved. Just went on feeding their faces. We decided they didn't know what the hell at Reatta was, so we climbed back into it and went home. Finis for old Buicks...

[padgett]

Suspect that the last "sports car" Buick understood was the Bug. Was the same thutty yar ago when I had a 4-speed GS. Buick had probably the most advanced 455 of the day and had not a clue what to do with it.<P>Used to beat Z-28s with mine in autocrosses but always registered as just a "Buick" - had removed all of the insignia and "acquired" an unchromed front bumper (was a '70 - one of the perks for being a GMI student). <P>At least it was visibly similar to a Skylark so service department recognised it (until the hood was opened and they noticed the stick in the floor, then they went into shock).<P>Sometimes I wish for another but the Judge really satisfies that need even if the engine is not as advanced and you can't swap the speedo for the tach in the dash.<P>Just had the same thing happen at the BOP show here (to be charitable, it was put on by the Olds club which hasn't had a two seater since the '40s) - they had not a clue what it was. Maybe that is part of the fun 8*>.

[Guest]

Sorry to say, the BCA Reatta Division is going down to nothing. So then, there is no need to join the BCA.<P>You are right, BCA people like big old Buicks, especially the fat fendered ones. Buicks have always been old man cars and still are. The Reatta just doesen't fit in.<P>Now if the Reatta just said C H E V R O L E T on the rear tailight lens. Now that would be a car!

[Barney Eaton]

When the Reatta club was in the early stages of formation, the founders originally planned on a free standing club. However, when they looked at the big picture... <BR>member services, newsletter, annual convention, insurance, it became apparant that attaching themselves with an exixting club like the BCA was the most practical.<BR>At first glance $35 for BCA and $10 for the Reatta division seems steep...until you compare to the dues of other clubs with similar benefits. <P>At last years convention, we were told that each Bugle had a page reserved for Reattas. This is fine if Reatta people contribute. <P>The new editor of the Reatta newsletter is attempting to catch up on newsletters that the last editor did not get out. Again, everything that is printed in those publications must come from somewhere (someone) send pictures, stories, questions and become involved. I have enough technical stuff for at least 4 issues and more will be there when they are gone. <P>I have a Reatta article in the que at the Bugle and am working on two more stories. The Bugle can print color pictures and we try to get them stories that are of interest to all Buick owners.<P>Contrary to the above comments, the Reatta division is growing at 3-4 times the BCA rate. Many Buick owners are buying Reattas as they become aware of the rarity and potential for future interest in the car. I go to many Buick functions just to promote the Reatta.<P>The sky is not falling...chicken little!<P>I was not involved with the forming/founding of the club. I joined fairly early as my Reatta division number is 60.<p>[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Barney Eaton ]

[86 2dr.ltd]

I've noticed the same thing on the general and performance pages of this BCA discussion forum. Asking a question on a post 1972 or even worce a post 1985 Buick and you might as well be a white guy in Afganistan. Its hard to get an answer. I think its just because they dont have an answer so I try not to take it personal. However there are many old car people that just cant get over FWD or GM's use of non divisional(corporate) drivetrains. They call them cookie cutter cars.<P>Also on the car show situation I have noticed that most owners keep to themself or their friends but if you engage them in conversation about their cars they'll loosen up and talk. Most everyones a little reserved, its the ones that are not that are usually in trouble.<P>I like old cars just fine and some of the newer ones as well so if you stand on only one side of the fence - well there you are.<BR>Maybe all car enthousiasts need to open up.<BR> <BR>1986 LeSabre Limited coupe<BR>1986 Riviera<P>Steve

[ol' yeller]

Everybody needs to listen to Barney on this one. It is resource intensive to start up a new club. Everyone wants to join but few want to do the work. If you enjoy this forum and the growing popularity of our Reattas, we need to pony up the money and the time. With respect to not being greeted and accepted, that is a 2 way street. You sometimes have to make an advanced effort to become part of a group. That is just human nature. I found last year at the Regional car show in Sacramento that many of my fellow BCAers were very helpful and friendly once approached. Like any human interaction, you have to give a little to get a little. Ask them about their cars and if they have any social skills at all, they will return the question. There are some who are unapproachable and close minded and I just forget them and move onto someone else.<P>Lastly around car bigotry. You will always find someone who thinks it is a crime to hot rod an old car or waste time restoring anything other than their narrow minded focus. These are the people who will kill our hobby if we let them. I see this same scenario played out in service clubs that cling to old traditions and lament over why they can't attract any young members. If we want this hobby to grow we all need to encourage anyone who shows interest. This forum is great for that.

[Barney Eaton]

One additional comment. Some of these "old timers" are somewhat resentful that we (Reatta owners) just plunked down the cash to purchase an instant collectable. If you listen to their story about their 1938 Buick (or other year) that took 6 years to restore, they will lead you to believe that they did all the work, when in fact, they probably wrote a check for the upholstery, engine rebuild, body work, and paint. The point is they also plunked down the cash but started with car in much worse condition.<P>After one of these conversation with a group of BCA members (older cars), I ask the owner of a 1936 Buick, "If you could buy a new 1936 today, would you?" and of course the answer was YES! So what is the difference between them and us? Nothing, except they prefer the older cars.

[Guest]

Barney,<BR>Thanks for your and the other users of this forums comments. It is wonderful to have this site to go to as often as possible. Since I am not a member of BCA, it concerns me that I should contribute to the cost of this site being maintained. It may well be that several others feel the same way and would be willing to help with the cost of keeping this site alive. Give us your thoughts on this so we will know the needs that exist.<BR>Steve

[DMC90]

I am suprised that anyone who appreciates a BUICK Reatta would not enjoy belonging to the Buick Club of America. Buick was making quality automobiles long before the Reatta.

[Guest]

As Barney and others have said, it is difficult to start, organize and run a car club. Having the Reatta club associated with the BCA provides all the benefits Barney mentioned and also gives us a place to have the one national meet a year. Anyone who has attempted to organize a national meet knows all the problems and being able to piggy-back onto all the ground work that the BCA chapters do to run a meet is a HUGE benefit. Think about it, will a motel or convention center be more likely to cater to a group of 2000 BCA members or a group of 30 Reatta owners. As always there are benefits in numbers. And, lets face it, do you think there would be a well attended Reatta meeting every year if the BCA didn't give us an excuse to get together?<BR>Also, I am not a Buick collector and would not have joined the BCA otherwise, but I do now enjoy reading about the old Buicks in the Bugle. I like all cars, old and new, and this lets me see cars I wouldn't have otherwise known about. For the relatively cheap price of admission lets enjoy the benefits of belonging to a large national club and read or ignore the mailings at your own choice.<BR>Finally, giving people exposure to the Reattas that a BCA meet gives can only help in getting people interested in and helping to improve the appreciation for our fine cars.

[padgett]

With all due respect (almost bought a 65 Riviera GS, did buy a '70 GS 4-speed, & won FEA (now DOE) fuel economy rallys with a '75 Electric). I wish the Reatta was a Pontiac, then would just have to pay one set of dues.<P>There was a revolution of sorts about a decade ago between the "Silver Steaks" and the GTO/early TransAm crowd but neither really understand the Fiero or the 12 second GTPs.<P>Within Buick, this has never been a problem and the Bengal could also be called the "Y-Job" and few would notice the difference.<P>No wonder nobody wants to talk about the Reatta, Buick finally managed to get rid of the last Riviera and is now entirely populated by four door cars (and a five) which they understand.<P>Of course I would probably trade my Judge for an equivalent '70 GS 455 in a New York Minute but that is about emotion and not sanity (equivalent:: a/c, 4-speed, full instrumentation, no vinyl roof).

[Arrallen]

When I belonged to the Corvair club (CORSA) I didn't have to join the Chevy club, and at the other end of the scale I belong to the Pontiac club (POCI) and as far as I know there is no extra charge for registering a GTO. So why does the Buick club want Reatta owners to pay more then the members with their '36 with side mounts, isn't that just as rare? What do I get for the extra ten dollars, one page in the club magazine? For us with skinny wallets and mutiple model collector cars it can get expensive joining all the clubs. If ten dollars bought me a junior membership and helped defray the cost of this site I would gladly send the check today, but $45.00? That is a wee bit on the expensive side. Cost and value have to match somewhere along the line.

[ol' yeller]

Go back and read what Barney said about what membership in the BCA brings to the Reatta Club. It is more than a page in the Bugle. Insurance for meets is near impossible without their clout. What the annual BCA dues get you is a better funded club (Reatta Division) with the resources of a large, well founded organization behind it. If we had to form a club without the BCA, the cost and effort would be beyond the few who would be willing to shoulder the burden. Too many people want the information and the social side a club brings without volunteering to provide the feet on the street it needs to be successful. Then they sit back and complain about how their particular pet peeve is overlooked. I know of what I speak as I write the newsletter for my chapter of the BCA and was in charge of organizing our annual Car show this year where we had over 150 Buicks in one place (3 Reattas). DON'T BE SO DAMNED CHEAP! BCA membership is only $35 annually. That is one rerason why your Reatta membership is only $10! I pay currently $35 for BCA, $20 annually for my local BCA chapter, $20 annually for the Riviera club and $10 for the Reatta division. I find that I get good value for my money and that is what keeps this hobby of ours going along with volunteering to help as much as I can. BCA membership is mandatory for the Reatta division to exist. If you aren't paying your BCA dues then you are a freeloader! Sorry about the strong language but people who expect something for nothing frustrate me beyond belief. Besides the title of this post was "Venting"

[padgett]

BTW GTOs do not have a chapter in POCI but Grand Prixs do and they have their own chapter dues, special newsletter, and t-shirts.<P>GTOs do have their own club (GTOAA) but there were a lot more GTOs built (and many that were not built by the factory) than Reattas.<P>There would probably be space for a "GM NA & BA (boosted aspiration) Computer Club" if all of the groups could ever get together.<P>Will comment that a large part of the dues for any club goes for printing/postage and I would be just as happy with a URL.

[Guest]

I would like to join the BCA and reatta devison but i cant seem to find a local chapter of the BCA to get sponsed so untill i do i cant join. Does any one know about a club in Holland MI? any info would be appreciated. Thanks

[WILLIAMSALISBURY]

THERE ARE PRESENTLY 4 BCA CHAPTERS IN MICHIGAN. THERE IS ONLY ONE CHAPTER ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STATE.WEST MICHIGAN CHAPTER <BR> ATTN: AUDREY SNOW <BR> 18175 56TH AVE<BR> COOPERVILLE, MI. 49404<BR> PH. 616 837-9264<BR>HOPE THAT MAY HELP YOU GET IN CONTACT WITH BCA MEMBERS CHAPTER CHAIRMAN BUICKTOWN

[Guest]

Ol yeller. Why don't you tell us what you really think!<BR> Generalizing always gets me in trouble!<BR> I am not a member of anything except, maybe, the old farts club. When you join a group you must give up some of what you are and assume some of what the group is or believes in.( Group conscious, group morals, group whatever)<BR> But, even considering the facts that I have received a lot of help, much information, made a few friends and enjoy the forum emensely, I am not a freeloader.<BR> I have given serious consideration to joining the BCA on several occasions but just can't find a good reason to do so. Fact is I ain't crazy about Buicks, Reattas included but I seem to always have one or two parked someplace (Reattas). I think I once owned a yellow Buick w/ Dynaflow, maybe a 55, not sure.<BR> Now if Barney needed $35 I would probably send it today. ( Replaced a lot of crumbles w/ 6 rollers today)

[ol' yeller]

Hey Wally, Maybe I didn't make myself clear. What I was addressing was those who join the Reatta division and then either don't join the BCA or let their dues lapse or complain about the cost. The cost of admission to the Reatta Division includes the price of a BCA membership. Those who participate here are under no obligation to join anything. I don't know if the BCA contributes anything other than a link to this forum. If they do fund it, you are still under no obligation to pay anything other than what your personal conscience guides you. I too probably should belong to the old farts club as I know I have paid those dues!

[Guest]

I'm a member of the BCA and the Reatta Div. As an old fart (retired) I winced a little when writing the check for the BCA. At my age I won't be taking the effort to restore one of the older buicks but I do enjoy the work of others shown in the Bugle.<P>If you get the Bugle but don't read it - why not donate it to a senior citizens center or to a library. A school library may also want it, some youngsters enjoy reading about the olden days.

[padgett]

I just sent a check for both BCA and Reatta div to Barney's address. There used yo be a BCA chapter in Orlando but it folded about a year ago.<P>This leaves the Fiero club (seems like there are half a dozen Fiero clubs in Florida), the "Wide Track Warriors" (essentially a spin off from POCI of people who did not want to put up with POCI politics & were not into suspenders), and the Oldsmobile club which is actually based about 80 miles away & picked up the annual BOP show. <P>Am really beginning to wonder about the usefulness to the typical car club anymore - the web provide much more useful service, immediate response & since so many have become "family oriented" are not even a good excuse to go pub crawling anymore. (Think my favorite in this country is still the "Long Branch Saloon" by Austin particularly since the "Office" outside Edwards burned down.)<P>Afraid Orlando is a bit too yuppified these days. But then am rarely there anyway.

[Guest BREH]

I belong to the BCA and enjoy the Bugle I read it cover to cover as soon as I get it.I have loved cars all my lift,both old & new.My local chapter is the St. Louis,the gateway chapter.We have eighty members and nine Reattas in our chapter.Everyone respects everyones Buick no mater what year or model.I respect & enjoy all the members of my club,even the old farts with their fat fendered cars.

[Barney Eaton]

Think of the BCA membership as a $35 dinner and the Reatta division as a heavy tip...

[Guest]

ol' yeller & Barney you are right. You have brought to light the positives of both clubs and I shouldn't be whining. I'm sending in my check today.