Pulled the engine and transmission on my 1956 Buick Super today.

[Budd]

My friend Glenn came over today with a 6 pack and years of experience from back-in-the-day with his 56 Chevy to help pull then engine and transmission out of Bessie. Glenn and I have been coworkers for years at Hewlett Packard.

I had prepped the car to the point of being ready to pull it out as one unit, because I was not exactly sure about the "separation" of the Dynaflow from the engine. In the end, we found the 3 magical bolts that freed the two, and oddly enough, I did not find reference to those 3 magical bolts in the shop manual. Perhaps I didn't read far enough-- anywhoooo... it was all of about 2 hrs work, and no drama. We were quite lucky in that there were no frozen bolts, and no suprises. We followed the outline in the shop manual, and all came out fine. One comical moment came when Glenn was asking about disconnecting the U-joint-- to which I replied "I don't have one, we need to unbolt the torque tube ball flange from the torque tube". "Huh?" he says. "It's a floating splined connection, the drive shaft is inside this torque tube here..." as I pointed it out under the car. At that point he said, "Ok, you handle this end of the deal then, I'll go up and get the engine ready."

Here's some photo's of the event, courtesy of my wife who came out to see how we were doing. There's more photo's on my website if you're curious, these are just some of the highlights.

In retrospect, Glenn and I decided we should have made better use of the engine leveler and attached it to 4 points on the engine, instead of 2 like we did. We did use the proper grade 8 bolts and heavy chain, but it would have been better to make an "sawhorse" setup with the chains and leveler to angle the whole unit out of the car easier. Live and learn...

Cheers,

Budd

[Guest kevinshea]

Nice pictures of your adventure. Glad you located the 3 flywheel bolts! and didn't have to pull it out with fenders, radiator, etc. pulled mine in much the same way and am getting ready to reinstall a rebuilt engine and a rebuilt transmission.

"Next time" place the leveler in paralled with the engine, not traverse. You will find that it will be a bit easier, and you can use the attributes of the leveler! But, with nothing in the way, it doesn't really make that much difference. Using the leveler for the restall will however make it easier for the reset. aligning mounts and drive tube.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Must say Budd, when I read and saw the extent of what you were undertaking in that first picture, I was seriously concerned that you were way in over your head. But when I got to the second picture I saw that you had an expert observer watching over you closely and was satisfied that you would have no problems. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Some nice engine pulling equipment ya got there. Care to tell the specs and where you bought it. Also what size or part of the garage did it take up to maneauver the puller around. I have limited space and am trying to figure out if I have enough room to pull the engine and tranny at the same time. I too have the front clip and fender wells removed.

Another thing, what would have been the most difficult to do without any help and do you suggest anyone trying it alone.

[Budd]

Yes Kevin, duly noted on the "in parallel with the engine" part. That was what I was trying to convey with my "saw horse" comment at the end of the photos. Glenn and I had one of those "well, duh...." moments when we realized it would have been much better to use the 4 attach points and leveler inline versus what we did. Fortunately, I didn't have much blocking the exit path, so we got away with it in that manner.

That was my very first engine pull. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm quite happy that:

a) nothing broke.

I didn't hurt the car, the engine, the tranny

c) my kids think I'm cool

d) I'm still married at the end of the day

Cheers,

Budd

[my_fiero]

Nice work!

I can see what I waiting for.

I started also whit my 1956 buick, only I have not so muts space.

I will follow the work with intrest <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep the photo's comming !!!

Stan

the Netherlands

[Budd]

Morgan comes out quite often when I'm working on Bessie, so I usually put her to work bead blasting or something. When the fumes are bad, I make her stay in with Mom. She hung out with Glenn and I all afternoon while we were in/under/around the car.

The hoist is a 2 ton unit from Harbor Freight ($200), and it's legs fold upwards to save space when storing. The leveler($30 ?) and engine stand ($100 ?) are also from Harbor Freight. Good enough quality for a hobbyist like me--

I have a 3 car garage 10 foot ceilings, 20 feet wide at the entrance, with one side being a "double-deep" to make the 3rd bay. Picture the letter "L" backwards. Bessie is on skates, so Glenn and I just pushed her sideways a bit, and that gave us enough room at the front. Having all the fenders and such out of the way made a big difference.

Would I have attempted this solo? First time, no-- I needed someone with some experience to at least show me the basics. Second time, maybe. The tail end of the tranny, at the torque tube ball retainer, needs to be supported on a floor jack or similiar to allow it to travel along as you are pulling the engine/tranny out as a unit. I babysat that thing all the way out, skooting the floor jack along with the tail of the tranny supported on it. If you go slow, and are patient, I didn't see anything going on while we were doing this that was absolutely a 2 man job.

Then again, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, since this was my first time and you can see that we were sub-optimal on the leveler as was noted.

Budd

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 3 car garage 10 foot ceilings, 20 feet wide at the entrance, with one side being a "double-deep" to make the 3rd bay. Picture the letter "L" backwards. Bessie is on skates, so Glenn and I just pushed her sideways a bit, and that gave us enough room at the front. Having all the fenders and such out of the way made a big difference.</div></div>

That's pretty much how I had intended to build my garage, but just went with a 30' x 22' box instead...one car on skates goes sideways at the front, although it doesn't leave me a whole lot left over.

Congrats on a job well done...and by well done, I mean just those points you had previously mentioned. It's great that you have a helper around too. Next spring I'll start to find out how interested my children are when we start digging into the '29.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Deal or No Deal ?

+ about $20 for gas

[Budd]

There were two types of engine stand when I bought mine, one was had a heavier rating, which is what I bought. You can see the difference in the construction in the photos. Not sure if that makes a diff or not. How much do these engines and dynaflows weigh, anyways?

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

No Deal,

the two hoists, yours and his look identical but per the ad his is only 3000 lb. I don't like the looks of that single bar on the engine stand either, looks like one could push on an engine just a little and it it would snap off at the base. the guy claimed the hoist has good reach and would have no problem pulling a 322 w/Dynafl attached. He restores "vintage race cars" and these are an extra set.... guess I'll keep looking.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much do these engines and dynaflows weigh, anyways? </div></div>

According to this site, a '53 322 weighs 635 lb (with a '59 401 being 685). I don't know about the Dynaflow (yet), but need to crawl into bed soon.

[JohnD1956]

I am so glad you posted these pictures Budd. Especially the ones of the back of the engine and the front of the torque converter. I was especially interested to see if your torque converter had weights on it or not from the balancing process and how to mark the alignment of the two pieces. It does look like the converter can only go to the flywheel in one orientation or else the torque converter drain plugs would be blocked by the flywheel. Is this right?

JD

[Budd]

Well, I'm not the guy to ask for what it's *supposed* to be, but I can tell you what I've observed so far. Yes, there is a weight attached to the face of the torque converter. If you look at the picture above, it's between the 8:00 and 9:00 position, somewhat out of the shot. I'll post some more pics tomorrow. As the engine and the tranny sit, is how they seperated-- I haven't moved either one. There are some other markings on the torque converter that have me curious, a green splotch of paint at the 12:00 position there, and in what I would guess is grease pencil, numeric markings all around the face of the converter. I'll get some better pics tomorrow and show everyone, maybe someone can guess what their purpose is.

As for alignment, there seems to be two "pins" on the torque converter that align the torque converter to the flywheel (whatever its called, the engine side piece) and it looks like they would allow only two ways to put the unit together. I'll look at it more tomorrow to be more definitive--

Cheers,

Budd

[Budd]

Here's some closeups of the "weights" and the numbers marked on the face of the torque converter. There is both a single surface weight (in my case), and two "plate weights" for lack of a better description, attached to the rear of the torque converter face bolts. I also highlighted the 3 points of attachment to the flywheel, that is only accessible if you remove the lower inspection plate (assuming that's what it's called), and rotating the flywheel manually to get all three bolts. If your engine was seized, I have no idea how you'd be able to rotate the flywheel to get to those bolts, without removing both the engine and tranny as a unit, and then disassembling the engine.

So, I'm curious what the numbers are marked in grease pencil on the face of the torque converter. My first guess was some sort of tightening sequence, as 15 - 3 is 12, and there is 12 numbers marked. That was 12 "torque converter bolts" minus the 3 bolts used to attach to the flywheel. Anyone else know what those are, or what they mean?

Oh, and what I thought were "pins" are not-- they are two bolts opposite of each other screwed into the face of the torque converter. Is/are these the torque converter drain holes you speak of, JD ?

edit: I added a closeup of the surface mounted balancing weight.

Cheers,

Budd

[JohnD1956]

I'm not sure of those grease number marks but if you know the build date of your car, would these possibly be the date of manufacture of the transmission? I might guess March 15th? It's not torque because the manual calls for 25-30 lbs per bolt, both cover bolts and torque conv-flywheel bolts.

Going back to the earlier pictures you showed in the first post on this thread, it looks like the flywheel /torque converter alignment can only be correct in one of the three possible orientations. The three orientations are any of the combos possible with the three bolts holding the two pieces together.

I think there is only one "right" combination because of the two holes in the flywheel for access to the torque converter drain plug bolts. Two of the three alignments would result in inaccessibility to the torque converter drain plugs.

All of this is only important because the manual says the torque converter is balanced on the engine at the factory. As such, if there was no way to prove alignment before dismantling, you'd have a one in three chance of getting it right on re-assembly. But it appears there is only one right way.

This is something I have to check on my 56. You see, my 56 was flooded before I got it. And I could not get the engine running so I dropped in a known good engine from my rotted out Roadmaster. There after the tranny went bad and I had that rebuilt. And I have a high speed vibration which I always wondered if it was attributable to improper alignment at the torque converter. But I know I can access my torque converter drain bolts so alignment has to be right. And that's not to say the balance is right, just the alignment.

Sorry to ramble.

JD

[Budd]

I'm leaning towards those grease marks being the torque "sequence", not the specification of how much torque to apply. I don't have the numbers aligned properly on the photo (I just kinda ball-parked it when I put them on there, releative to the photo), but I can't imagine what else they could be. Like I said, 12 "non-flywheel" bolts, and the numbers 1 to 12 on the face of the torque converter-- my money's on it's the tightening sequence.

I wonder how the factory performed the balancing, whether the tranny was balanced individually on a machine, or whether it was done as a mated pair to the engine, or ?? Somehow they had to know how many, and where, to place those plate weights, and where to put the "surface" weight on the torque converter. Unless all Dynaflows had those in roughly the same position ?

Who knows... more mysteries.

Budd

Budd

[JohnD1956]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I wonder how the factory performed the balancing </div></div>

Me too. I would imagine just the assembled torque converter is attached to the flywheel and then both are balanced as a unit. But the manual shows that the front cover on the torque converter has to come off to get the torque converter attached or removed from the transmission. So again it would have to be indexed somehow to make sure it went back together in the same orientation to complete assembly.

BTW, the manual shows the tightening sequence for the TQ front cover. figure 5-108. Starting with the drain plugs in the 12 and 6 oclock positions, the first bolt would be the 12 oclock, the second would be the 6 oclock. The third is 3 oclock and 4th is 9 oclock, then the 10 oclock is 5th and the rest follow as 11,1,2,4,5,7,8 oclock, be sure to leave off the bolts that go for the flywheel they would be between 11 and 12 oclock, 3 and 4 oclock and then 7 and 8 oclock.

I think I'll leave mine alone for now.

JD

[Budd]

In case anyone is wondering, this is what your 1956 Dynaflow looks like after removing 50+ years of dirt and road grime... nice aluminum bell housing and a pleasant cast iron finish on the rest of the transmission body. I have no idea if this transmission has ever been rebuilt-- I'm guessing maybe it hasn't, given the little paint daubs, the factory balance weights, and the grease marks on the face of the torque converter. I spent a few hours, 2 cans of brake clean, and a Dremel with brass brushes to wizz off all the layers of road grime. Talk about therapy...

[JohnD1956]

Nice!!!!! But I'm still leaving mine alone for now <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JD

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice!!!!! But I'm still leaving mine alone for now <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JD </div></div>

I concur!

[Gene Brink]

Looks good, Robert. Regarding balance I'm sure the converter must be factory balanced (spot welded weight on an inaccessable [when installed] face means it had to be balanced already) separately from the engine/transmission combination with removeable weights. Both my '54 and '55 manuals have a section titled ENGINE MOUNTING ADJUSTMENT, FLYWHEEL REPLACEMENT, ENGINE BALANCING that describes how one goes about balancing if you experience vibration (I changed my Dynaflow in my '54 six times when I was a kid and never had to balance any of them at all!) and would think a '56 manual would probably have the same thing essentially. Sure it would probably take a while to accomplish as it is pretty much a trial and error method.

Good luck!

P.S. If you do not have anything let me know and I'll transcribe the '55 notes.

[my_fiero]

Nice to see what I must do <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

so here a photo of my engine removal:

Afther the engine was out, whe had a problem:(

Budd do you know if is OK if the engine is out of the car, if I then try to move the car forwards or back, the rearwheels stay on the same place?

So I can move the car for 1 meter and then the wheels come agains the car

There is no mount for the rearwheels?

Is this normal?

Stan

the Netherlands

[Budd]

Stan:

I'll have to have others comment on this-- I did not have the problem you describe, my car is on "skates" (one under each wheel), so that I push it around the garage floor on those skates instead. Perhaps it is because the torque tube and rear end do not have anything to thrust against. Maybe you could fashion a wood block to bolt to the torque tube front and secure it to the frame, having it centered properly.

Anyone else want to comment on Stan's predicament?

Budd

[Bhigdog]

The problem is that the rear is only fastened to the car now by the rear coil springs and sway bar. The trans/thrust plate is what kept it from moving fore and aft. Both the car and rear have to be pushed or pulled at the same time to move it, especially if the parking brake is applied or the brakes drag a bit....Bob.

[Gene Brink]

Stan,

I had to move my '54 one time when the transmission was out. Carefully lifted the rear-end on a good sized floor jack and pulled it gently at the same time a friend pushed the front of the car. Would not want to go very far but you can move a bit.

Good luck.

[JohnD1956]

Shouldn't the panhard bar keep the rear axle aligned at least enough to push the car a little? The panhard bar travles up and down, not front to rear or vs versus. It would seem that the rear axle ought to stay long enought for something like this.

JD

[my_fiero]

Thanks all.

I have fixt the problem for now, just to use a pice of wood between the rear axe and a rope.

So now I can carful push the car.

And now can start the big cleaning work.

I buy a Dremel with brass brushes and a lot of brake cleaner <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Budd check P.M.

[Bhigdog]

The bar is designed to be strong in compression/tension not laterially and it is mounted in rubber bushings. It helps a little but not much......Bob.