1970delta88 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Ok I have a 1970 delta 88 With a broken front brake rotor. I go to change the broken rotor. And I go to every autop parts store that has the part listed, but none of them are the right rotor. Not one of them will fit. So my only guess is that the rotors and spindles on my delta 88 are not the ones that came with the car 36 years ago. Which is not that hard to believe but the only problem is that I have no idea what car or what year these rotors and spindle are off of. Has any one run into this problem before. Or does anyone know any cars whos rotors and spindles would fit the 1970 delta 88. Or where I may purchase some spindle and rotors for a 1970 delta 88. Please help me out. I am absolutly stuck here. I have no idea where to go from here. Please help, Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketDude Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 I would go to a brake supply house, the places the garages, and a lot of the parts stores get their parts. The place I deal with, in Southern California, is called One Stop Parts source. They have a number of warehouses throughout So Calif. Not sure if they are outside the state or not, but there has to be a similiar place where you are located. I would check your Yellow Pages for brakes supply warehouses. There are numerous similiar places in my area. One Stop handles nothing but brake and suspension parts, and I know if you layed your rotor on their counter, they would come up with an answer for you. It will turn out to be something simple and stupid, as most problems do. They are more specialized than a parts store, who buy their supplies throught their company warehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Thank You I went to a Value Brake to see if they could tell me where the rotor came from. And they told me that it came off of a truck. They said a half ton truck somewhere near 1970-1985. But I do not know how many GM trucks were made between those years. Or what they where. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the c10 and maybe 20. Do you know how many or what they were ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketDude Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I am a little confused, after reading the answers in the two places you posted. I first thought you were saying the stores you went to had the proper rotors for a 1970 D88, but they were different that the one on your car. some of the other answers suggest no such rotors are even available. How about providing dimentions for your rotor, and the ones the stores are saying are listed for your car. If yours are smaller, I'd look at a Cutlass rotor, just to see if it might match. I'm not familiar with Value Brake, but if they are a brake parts supply warehouse, they should have the different rotors in stock, to try and match. If they say it's a Chevy truck, have them pull some out to match. Get me some more information, and I will give One Stop a call tomorrow to see if they can shed some light on the subject. Rotor dimentions would be a good help. The bearing numbers might also be of some help. I'll see what I can do with the limited info available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketDude Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 OK, here we are, the next morning, and I just got off the phone with One Stop. As the other gentlemen stated, there is no listing for a rotor from 1967 to 1970. He did tell me if I could get some casting numbers, he may be able to come up with something. Look on the rotor and see if you can get some casting numbers. Other than that, you will have to go the junkyard route. as previously mentioned, make sure to mic any used rotors, to make sure they are in spec. You are only allowed to turn a rotor .060, so it doesn't take much to render them useless. good luck in your search.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...You are only allowed to turn a rotor .060, so it doesn't take much to render them useless. good luck in your search.... </div></div>Actually, that's not true. Every rotor made is required to have a cast-in minimum thickness on the face of it. Many newer cars have very thin rotors to start with (to save weight) and sometimes you can't even turn them once. On the other hand, older cars were less weight sensitive and frequently rotors can be turned several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Ok I took the rotor and hub apart ( it is a 2 piece assembly, held on by wheel studs). The only numbers on the Hub are as follows : KH78515 And L86468R. And there are no numbers on the rotor itself. I have put around another 100 miles on my car driving around today trying to find this stuff. And still no leads. I am just about stumped as to what to do next. And yes the parts places have rotors for a 19070 delta 88. But they are no the ones on my car. The ones on my car are different. It is more the hub that is different then the rotor. The hubs look like they came off of a utility trailer. They are long. If ya know what I mean. But the only specs I have on the rotor is that it is a 12 inch rotor . That is all I was told I would need. Does any one know where I can find a set of spindles and rotors for a 1969-70 Delta 88. Cause I think I am about to the point of having to put a set of spindles on it. Cause trying to find out what car this rotor came off of is getting me no where. I hope you can help me rocket. Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Wyatt Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Have you tried matching your rotor with one for a half ton Chevy of that era? Disc brakes were a popular new item on that series of trucks and many were built with them. What bolt circle does your car use on the front, is it the same as the 67 (first year for 5 bolts) and up pickup? Someone could have swapped in a pickup brake setup, or GM used those same parts on your Delta. Just because parts books don't list it, doesn't mean it was not available. I had a 69 Superbee with factory disc brakes and the NAPA books did not show it. Went to another parts store and found it listed. Recently I tried to buy an alternator with an internal regulator for my 4-4-2 and the books said it was not offered for a 1970. Funny thing is, GM put one on there in late 1969 when they built the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 I have yet to find anything that matches the bolt pattern on the hub. It is 5 lug and 4 and 3/4 inches . And the hub is deep like the hub from a utility trailer. If anyone has a huyb that matches that description please let me know. on here of e-mail me bboybear1984@bellsouth.net. I found spindles for a 67 olds. But I am kinda not wanting to pay $350 to try it out. When all I need is to find out what this rotor came off of. Please help. Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 If it has a 4-3/4 bolt pattern, someone has cobbled something together. All big Oldsmobiles back then except Jetstar 88s and some Delmont 88s had 5x5 BP.Since it is a 4-3/4 BP, that means it came off a Chevrolet or a BOP A, F or X body GM car.Bear, where are you located? We might be able to put you on to someone local who can help you.Edit- I wonder if someone managed to adapt 77-later B body spindles and brakes to this car. I think suspension geometry is different, but I suppose it could be done. Padavano- do you know if later spindles will adapt to these cars? And Bear- has this car been lowered or otherwise changed? That will help us narrow down what you've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Edit- I wonder if someone managed to adapt 77-later B body spindles and brakes to this car. I think suspension geometry is different, but I suppose it could be done. Padavano- do you know if later spindles will adapt to these cars? And Bear- has this car been lowered or otherwise changed? That will help us narrow down what you've got. </div></div>Glenn,That was exactly my thought when I saw the 4 3/4 bolt pattern. As you probably know, the 77-90 B-body cars came with one of two bolt patterns. There were 11" diameter by 1" thick front rotors with the 4 3/4" bolt circle (used on sedans) and the 12" diameter by 1" thick rotors with the 5" bolt circle (used on the wagons, 98s, Caddys, and police/taxi cars). These spindles and rotors CAN be adapted to the earlier cars. It requires retrofitting the later upper and lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends since the ball stud taper is different. You're probably aware that this is a popular swap on the A-body cars, but there's no reason someone couldn't have done it to a B-body also. Original 65-70 B-body disc brake setups are very rare. The easy way to tell which spindle you have is to look at the caliper mounting ears. The 65-70 spindles use a separate caliper mounting bracket that bolts to the spindle. The steering arm is also separate and bolts on from the back. All 71-96 spindles are a one-piece forging with integral caliper mounting ears and steering arm. If you have a one-piece spindle, it's been changed. If you have a multi-piece spindle with bolt-on caliper bracket and steering arm, it's original and you should recheck that lug bolt circle. Note that the thin metal splash shield may cover the part of the caliper bracket where it bolts to the spindle, making it difficult to see the seam on the bolt-on design. Also, grease and dirt may further obscure the joint, so check carefully.I want to be certain that this car really has a 4 3/4" bolt circle on the front rotors, however. If it really is 4 3/4", then it would use different wheels on the back, since those would still be the 5" bolt circle drums. Is that the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest edalfa Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 <span style="font-style: italic">The only numbers on the Hub are as follows : KH78515 And L86468R</span> The KH indicates Kelsey-Hayes. Perhaps someone has a KH cross reference book.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66400 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Does the driver side spindle have provision for the speedometer drive cable? If so that marks it as 65-70 full size rwd Oldsmobile.GM used a separate hub/rotor design prior to the 1971 model year.Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ok I have mesured the back lugs as well. They are also 5 on 4 and 3/4. And I do not think the suspension has been messed with much. Nothing that I can tell. And the Spindle is definetly more than one piece. The steering arm is a bolt on. So this means that the spindles are from the 65-70. And the driver side spindle does have a speedo cable. So it is big body rwd olds from 65-70. How many options does that give me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I suggest you try measuring the bolt circle again, because ALL 65-70 Olds 88s came with a 5 x 5" bolt circle. If you're just measuring between two of the lugs, you won't get the correct dimension. If you have a compass, try drawing a 5" diameter circle on a piece of paper then overlaying the paper on the ends of the lugs. This circle should pass through the center of all five of the bolts.Having said that, it does sound like you have the original setup. And you are correct, no one makes replacement rotors for the 65-70 cars that I can find. What part of the rotor is actually "broken"? If it's just excessively worn there are shops that will flame spray new metal onto the rotor and resurface them. This is the same process as is used to "weld" up worn cranks and is done frequently for aircraft brakes. Maybe you could post a picture of the car and the front rotors? That would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 This site might be useful:http://www.kleenwheelsincolor.com/kwic_determining_bolt_circle_diameter.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I did a little research and it turns out that the 65-70 B-body cars and the 71-76 cars all use the same inner and outer front wheel bearings. I'd be willing to bet that a 71-76 front rotor will bolt onto that 70 Delta. You may want to grab an inexpensive wrecking yard rotor off a 71-76 B-body and compare it to yours for thickness and offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66400 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 One other quick ID is that 5 inch bolt pattern uses a 13/16 socket to remove the lugnuts, while the 4 3/4 bolt pattern uses a 3/4 inch socket to remove lugnuts. Assuming the lugnuts are original to the car.Where are you located?Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I am located in Jacksonville Fl. And thanks for all the help you guys. I am just a 22 year old kid. I do not know alot about the older cars. But I want to fix this one up. And the bolt pattern is definetly 5 on 4 and 3/4 But I layed a 5 on 5 rotor/hub in the tire and it wil match up. So I guess it is a 5 on 5. But the hub is so different nothing I have looked at fits it. Because of the bearings in the back of the rotor/hub. The rotor hits the spindle before the bearings meet up right. I am not sure if you guys understand what I mean. But I am to the point of just putting the originals on it. Do any of you know where I can get the original Spindles, Rotors, Calipers. Pretty much from the spindles down. If any of you have any laying around I am more then willing to pay for them and for shipping. From what I have heard the 1967-1970 Oldsmobile Spindles are interchangable. If any of you guys have a set or know where I can get a set please let me know. Thanks again for all your help. I am not giving up on this car. I will have this car back on the road this month ( some how...lol ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 www.oldsclubofflorida.com . Somebody down there will help you. Tell 'em their old zone director has asked for them to.And hey bubba- don't get discouraged. I know you want to drive the car, but get it straightened out first esp on safety stuff like brakes and suspension. Wouldn't want to hear about a young Oldsmobiler getting whacked because the brakes on his 4500 lb boat didn't work.Also try www.realoldspower.com and www.442.com . Lots of useful info and a few helpful folks, and some of us here are over there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am located in Jacksonville Fl. And thanks for all the help you guys. I am just a 22 year old kid. I do not know alot about the older cars. But I want to fix this one up. </div></div>The first thing you should get is a 1970 factory service manual. It will have pictures, service information, critical measurements, and torque values for everything on the car.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the bolt pattern is definetly 5 on 4 and 3/4 But I layed a 5 on 5 rotor/hub in the tire and it wil match up. So I guess it is a 5 on 5. </div></div>I'm still struggling to understand where you are getting the 4 3/4 dimension. A circle drawn through the center of the five lugs will be 5" in diameter for this car. Unfortunately, with five lugs you don't have two directly opposite, so you can't measure directly.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the hub is so different nothing I have looked at fits it. Because of the bearings in the back of the rotor/hub. The rotor hits the spindle before the bearings meet up right. I am not sure if you guys understand what I mean. </div></div>Help me out here. The original rotors clear, correct? The one that hits is a replacement you got someplace? Again, can you post pictures? Have you compared the two rotors (old and new) side by side? Look for diameter, rotor thickness, and offset (the dimension from the wheel mounting flange to the face of the rotor. Next, look at the bearings and races. Are the bearing part numbers the same? Is the dimension from the backside of the rotor to the inboard edge of the inboard brearing the same? If not, this isn't the correct rotor. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I am to the point of just putting the originals on it.</div></div>Well, again, what exactly is "broken"? The two-piece rotor you described is typical of GM rotors for 67-70, so that is likely an original or an OEM replacement.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do any of you know where I can get the original Spindles, Rotors, Calipers. Pretty much from the spindles down. If any of you have any laying around I am more then willing to pay for them and for shipping.</div></div>Well, from your description you already have the original spindles, so I'm not sure what new ones will do for you. As you've found, no one makes replacement rotors. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have heard the 1967-1970 Oldsmobile Spindles are interchangable. If any of you guys have a set or know where I can get a set please let me know. Thanks again for all your help. I am not giving up on this car. I will have this car back on the road this month ( some how...lol ). </div></div>Actually, 65-70 B-body GM cars are interchangeable, but disk brakes were only offered in 67-70. The B-body cars are the Olds 88, Pontiac Bonneville, Chevy Impala, and Buick LeSaber. The C-body cars may also interchange (Olds 98, Buick Electra, and Caddies) but someone else needs to verify this. The 67-68 cars used the four piston calipers and the spindle brackets and rotors are different from the 69-70 cars. Single piston calipers should be the same for 69-76. A 67-68 setup will swap for a 69-70 setup (and vice versa) but only as a complete set - everything from the spindles out needs to be changed. These B-body disk brake systems were very rare when new, so good luck finding parts today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 I will work on getting some pictures up so you guys can see what I am talking about. The difference is in the back of the new rotors. I believe these are original spindles on this Delta but I do not think these spindles are original to this car. I think they came off of something else. I will get some pic up today and you guys can check them out. And I will get all the measuments and specs posted as well. Thanks again guys. Ohh and Rocket I would never put this boat on the road with no brakes. I do not think I could just put my feet out the door and stop this boat. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmoney Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Bear:Here is a thought. There is an add in the current JWO from a person selling a set of drum brake spindles and drums for a 68 88. Most of these old cars came original with drums on the front. A change over would be more work but, parts are probably readily available. If I were you I would look onto the details and give this serious thought. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not think I could just put my feet out the door and stop this boat. lol.</div></div>Aight den, Fred Flintstone!You'll figure this thing out. All of us have run up on stupid stuff like this with old cars. Couple other places to check www.scarebird.com , they do a LOT of disc brake conversion kits that use off the shelf factory parts; and Mike Pemberton in NV who is on here every so often may be able to help you figure this thing out. If I weren't so stupid about keeping my fancy stock 14" wheelcovers on my Starfires, they'd have discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970delta88 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Still going to get some pics up. Ran into alot to do yesterday. And Just wandering is it possible that these are ford spindle on this car. I had a guy I know at a Value Brakes here take a look at the rotos and he said that they look just like a ford fairlane that he had in his shop not to long ago. But Is it possible to get everything to match up from a Ford ? I will do some research on that in the mean time. I have tried alot of other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Before you go off into the weeds looking into Ford parts, I suggest you do some research on the parts you have. Again, from the description it sounds like you have the original GM spindles. The two-part rotors are also indicative of an original late-60s GM part. Comments like "these look like the Ford parts in here last week" are, frankly, notoriously unreliable without having the parts side-by-side for comparison. You should first get the part numbers off the wheel bearings, since that will help confirm what you have. Tell us the rotor diameter, thickness, and offset. Next, it would help us help you if you could tell us exactly what's "broken" on the original rotors. Maybe I missed this, but it may be an easy fix.Finally, keep in mind that this is an old car and some replacement parts are not available. Given your experience and my research, it's clear that exact replacement rotors are not currently available. ANYTHING new you get from a parts house will be different from what you have. Also, I've found many parts books to be unreliable, particularly with limited production options on 35 year old cars. Unless you have hard data to the contrary, I would assume the brake setup you currently have is the orignal design. It's possible, for example, that you can find a separate rotor that will fit on your current hubs and work fine.We're trying to help, but it's really not possible to provide much hard info by long distance without some pictures, measurements, and information from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66400 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Actually, 65-70 B-body GM cars are interchangeable, but disk brakes were only offered in 67-70. The B-body cars are the Olds 88, Pontiac Bonneville, Chevy Impala, and Buick LeSaber. The C-body cars may also interchange (Olds 98, Buick Electra, and Caddies) but someone else needs to verify this. During this year range each GM division had unique spindle design and the DO NOT interchange only Olds 88 and 98 interchange. Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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