53 Pontiac Straight * help

[Guest JDHolmes]

First, this car was SUPPOSEDLY a running car prior to my purchase. It does have out of date inspection sticker and tags (five years gone now) to support the contention.

I'm seeking helpful advice on a straight 8. So far...new plugs, new rotor, cap, condensor, coil and do have fire to plugs. Rebuilt the carb. Good gas and good flow. New timing chain and gears. Got it all back together. Still no start.

Borrowed a compression gauge. No readable pressure on one, two, four. Three had 30lbs. Didn't go further because there was no reason to at this point. However, is it truly believable that I lost a crankshaft? It does SEEM to be turning from the sound, but for what other reason would I be getting no compression?

Stuck pistons? Would there be a hell of a racket if something had broken. Car turns over fine/normally though a bit slow (battery charge)at times.

I'm really baffled at this point. Without a brainstorm or some other direction, seems like the head gets pulled next.

All your thoughtful advice is much appreciated.

[jrbartlett]

The most likely culprit is valves stuck open. You can pull the valve cover off and observe the valve action while someone operates the starter. If they are stuck, determine whether you can get access to the top of the valves through the spark plug holes (sometimes you can, sometimes not). Get an oil can with an extended spout and stick it through the spark plug holes and try to get some oil onto the bottom surface of the valve -- it will run down the stem and into the guides. Let it soak awhile, then try to gently tap the valves down. Of course, it's easier to do all this with the head off. If the valves are closing and you still don't have compression, the rings are either bad or stuck. My bet is the valves.

[Ron of Chicago]

I agree with jr, but I believe that the engine is a flat head or L-head engine. You will have to remove the head and watch the valves. Some of them are more then likely stuck open and that is the reason for the lack of compression. Pulling the head is a rather simple and straight forward operation.

You may also find that you have some rings on the pistons that are not sealing and stuck to the point that they do not allow for a good seal to the cylinder walls.

I worked on a guys 37 Packard that had sat for a long time and that's what happened to his. I pulled the head and found two valves that would not close. I suggested an overhaul but eventually with the use of penatrating oil and working the starter remotely and some lite tapping on the valves, they freed up. After putting the head back on and starting the car they would still stick occasionally. Running the car for some time helped and he was able to drive it.

Best of luck with the car.

Ron

[Guffin]

If it is a flathead it may be more easy to remove the side cover (lifter cover) to observe if any valve is stuck. The exhaust valves are more prone to be stuck.

Jan

[Guest JDHolmes]

Thanks to all. I'll open him up tomorrow and see what we see.

[Bhigdog]

Are you sure you got the valve timing correct when you installed new timing chain and gears?..........Bob

[Guest Silverghost]

Sounds like stuck valves to me also. If you open the side cover you might want to use liquid wrench spray at top valve guide area (top of springs)...Repeat sprays might work to free stuck valve stems. You might also be able to spray open stuck valve stems from the spark plug holes with the plastic straw that comes with the liquid wrench!!!

Are you sure that you are timed correctly???

Did you remove the distributor ??? If so...Was it replaced and timed as before ???

Let us know how you make out with this problem!!!

Good Luck with your new find!!!

[Guest JDHolmes]

Update. I pulled the head yesterday to check valves etc. Bumped starter around and...all valves appear to be working correctly. No valves stuck, pistons moving appropriately and at the top of their compression cycles with both valves closed.

Pistons and valves have some carbon buildup but nothing worse than I've seen before for a car with 88k miles.

Head gasket intact and in good shape.

It's been suggested the rings may be bad. I realize that compressed air is different than fluid, but the cylinders held water/coolant very well. (When I pulled head, engine coolant/water flooded my garage. Didn't think it would be bad because I had just removed radiator for timing gear R&R last week). I cleaned out cylinders, dried, and have now used marvels in the cylinders to check for seepage/flow by the rings.

So...what's my next step? If I've got to replace the rings, it seems like I might as well go ahead and have the engine rebuilt since the engine will have to come out (easiest means to access).

Any ideas or comments?

Thanks in advance.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Well,

What kind of shape is the rest of the car in ?

And,

Did you buy it because you "like" or "love" it or because you "Want to make money" on it ? ( You don't necessarily give the answer to the Forum...)

If you're hoping to turn the car around and make a little money on it, be careful how much you invest in it...

Otherwise, pull the motor down, see what it really needs, and see where you go from there...

For a "daily-driver" it might be more feasible to completely overhaul (re-bore, new pistons, etc)... if the crank and bearings are in decent shape, and the cylinders are within reasonable wear limits, it may only need honing, re-ring, and a valve job(some guys used to call this an "in-chassis overhaul")...especially if it's going to see light use...

If the engine has to come out of the chassis, then it's probably wise to do the full rebuild...

In the meantime, start looking into parts avail & pricing on things like pistons, rings, bearings, valves, etc.

BTW - just because valves are moving up & down doesn't mean they're necessarily sealing...

When I first got my '48 NYer, it had been sitting in a field where it was driven-to 18 years prior. The motor was stuck. I luckily got it freed-up with Marvel Mystery Oil. I then put a battery on it, and discovered it had no compression. Pulled the head, and found at least 3 valves stuck open. Got those freed, and tried to clean the seats as best as possible using sand paper (this was an after-school project while in college, read: LOW-budget!).

When we put the head back on (with a new gasket), we still couldn't get it started...finally had to get it out on the street and pull it about two blocks before it belched a HUGE cloud of blue smoke and started to run on its own...after that, it was minor tinkering to get it running decently, and I put another 40,000 miles on the car with no more motor work...it got parked in 1995 with 106,000 miles on it.

All of which is to say, it might not take a full rebuild to make your car do what you need it to...check it out and do what makes sense...

[Ron of Chicago]

This is very strange indeed. To have "NO readable pressure on 1,2 and 4" means that the pressure has to go someplace. Valves, piston rings and head gasket are the sealing point.

If everything is as you say, I would put it back together and do another test. Be sure you have a good and functional compression guage set.

Please keep us advised

Ron

[Guest Randy Berger]

IMHO you or your mechanic installed the timing chain improperly. It is not reasonable to get the kinds of compression readings that you indicate.

I won't say anymore because it might be considered flaming.

Have a mechanic familiar with older engines, preferably Pontiac, come out and check your timing chain installation.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Frank - I bought this car because I loved the look and fell in love with it. We will be keeping him for the foreseeable future. He's in fantastic shape including original interior which is unripped. Door panels will be redone because they are damaged. Even the headliner is still flush though it is darker colored at the seams and will eventually be replaced. He is in original condition, no rust through and only a bit of surace rust at molding. It will get a wet sand, and new paint job. Chrome bumpers have some surface rust and the pot metal will have to be redone, but generally he's in great shape...except this motor thing.

My original intent was to get it running and then drive him as we improved the cosmetics. The motor's baffling me. It's got 88,000 miles. So, a shorter response is that we'll be keeping him and restoring to original condition. He's not intended as a money maker. And while having the motor rebuilt is not a financial hardship, the time and trouble is. And, I don't trust/haven't found a mechanic or shop that I want tinkering with my "classic".

Ron...see my point As we know, just because water won't leak by the rings doesn't mean that compressed gas/air mix won't under pressure. Earlier, I made sure the compression gauge was working by testing on my Ford. I think I'll invest in a new one anyway. Before I invest in a rebuilt, I want to explore all the possibilities.

Randy...I installed the timing chain. I do all my own work and have for about 30 years, replacing my first timing chain in a 72 Nova as a junior in high school. I've done no less than 20 in a variety of makes. There's only one way to install a timing chain and this one is installed correctly. You needn't worry about flaming. It makes no sense to me either, hence my desire to bounce ideas and thoughts off those more experienced in dealing with older vehicle than I.

thank you all for your thoughts and help.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

JD,

Since you indeed "bought the car for love", then it makes sense to be commited and see it through...it's important that you at least "like" the car, because it's gonna test your love at times, for sure !

What kind of shape are the cylinder walls in?

Are there vertical scores or horizontal "rings" of pitting where the rings sat against the bore while the car was dormant ?

If there are any scores or pits deep enough to "Catch" you fingernail, or catch some copper off a penny dragged across, it will at least need honing & new rings, possibly a re-bore.

If the bores are not scored, can you pull a piston from one of the "no-compression cylinders", and see if the rings are broken or stuck ?

Also, one cylinder at a time ( go through in firing order ), and examine each valve and seat closely - make sure the mating surfaces are clean and smooth - if they are rough from carbon or pitted from rust, they may not seal well enough to give you compression...

And, finally (not to discredit your under-hood skills), you mentioned that you had installed a new timing chain - is it possible that the crank is one revolution out of time with the cam ? It is possible to achieve this and still line-up the timing marks...and more than one person (including me) has made this mistake ...it's worth verifying...

Make a list and check things out...the problem's got to surface sooner or later !

Good luck !

[Guest Silverghost]

JD; Just trying to help here...

Why did you decide to replace the timing chain and sprocket gears ??? Were they broken or did you do it because of the high miles on them???

I have seen many engines with bad leaky rings over the years...many had not been run in years...BUT...leaky or not they all had some compression !!!

I have to tell you that... I TOO... am thinking of a cam that is out of phase with the crankshaft!!!

If you are sure that all the valves are indeed closing; and sealing on their seats. This indeed could be the problem.

The cam runs at half the crankshaft speed and it is very easy to get this out of phase and not know it. I have seen this before. You have a four stroke engine so you have a 1 in 4 chance in getting it correct!!!

Please consider this as a possible cause of your engine's no/low compression...This is not a "Knock" on your mechanical ability...But...

Frank...Randy...Bob...And... I... all think this might be the answer to your no/low compression problem.

It might be worth a check...???

If you still think it is the rings that are not sealing...put a tablespoon-1/2 of #40-#50 weight oil in each of the cylinders...then re-do the compression test to see if readings improve!!!

The thick oil should help seal the old rings.

Caution: Do NOT use any more than 1 1/2 tablespoon of oil in each cylinder or severe engine damage may result!!!

Ths is an old "Tried & True Test" for leaky/bad rings!!! It really works!!! If readings come-up...it was the rings...

If readings stay almost the same...or No pressure at all....suspect the chain & sprockets are out of phase!!!

Best of luck to you!!!

Keep us "up Dated" as to yor progress...

We are all here to help!!!

BRAD

[Guest JDHolmes]

Frank...cylinder walls are in great shape. There is no pitting whatsoever. There was some mild rust discoloration only but no pitting. I will go through each valve and seat and verify seat. There is a good deal of buildup on the external portions of the valves.

I'm not offended in a discussion of my under hood skills. If I were perfect and knew everything, the Cheiftain would be purring along without issue.

Question...if the crank and cam were out of synch, would the valves and pistons not be out of synch?

The reason I ask is that I have verified valve operations in conjunction with piston action, i.e. intake valve, piston compresses, exhaust valve. One item I have not documented as being checked is correct firing order which I'll do this evening since it should be verified. I've watched, but not explicity for this issue.

Silver... I decided to replace the timing chain and gears because of the following:

1. After carb rebuilt, the engine would almost fire up...as in right on the edge.

2. I could adjust the distributor and modify the above

3. I thought I could see gas in bottom of carb not entering intake (as in gas standing in intake, not in carb). It was suggested, which made sense, that intakes could not be opening correctly.

4. I felt certain that this year model had steel gears, although someone who supposedly knew more about this era of vehicle said that fiber gears were put in these also. I've had fiber gears teeth wear off, creating firing problems in the past from chain slippage.

5. The timing chain "could" have been the issue if chain had slipped.

6. At some point, it would be necessary to replace timing chain and doing so now would give me a good indication of internal motor condition.

The chain was a bit stretched (maybe 1/2" play), but not to the point where slippage could have occured. Everything appeared to be original, including the seal...instead of cork, it felt like steel it was so old.

As I said above, don't consider it a "knock" on my mechanical ability. I've put in timing chains before and missed by a tooth and had to redo it. It is entirely possible that this is the cause. However, wouldn't one be able to tell because of an incorrect sequencing between valves and piston. What I mean is, both valves should be closed at the top of the compression cycle. If off, would this still be the case?

Thanks greatly for your help and advice.

Jeff

[Guest De Soto Frank]

JD,

Okay, I just put pen to paper and made a few sketches (since I don't have any real parts to play around with at my desk )...(I also snuck a peek in my '35-'49 MoToR's manual and the Pontiac section )

It seems that it may well be impossible to get the cam/crank timing "one-revolution off" as I previously suggested...I think I got myself confused ...

For a given cylinder, the cam lobes are staggered approximately 90 deg from one another, with the exhaust cam being 90 deg "ahead" of the intake cam, in the direction of normal rotation.

For a correctly-timed engine, with #1 piston at TDC, #1 exhaust lobe would point to 9 o'clock (viewed from front of car), and #1 intake would point to 6 o'clock. If the crank was then turned one complete revolution, piston again at TDC, then #1 intake lobe should be pointing between 11 & 12 o'clock (and the valve just opening to beginning it's intake stroke), and the #1 exhaust lobe pointing towards 2 o'clock, having just closed from its exhaust stroke (But in this case, the Cam gear timing mark would be at 10 o'clock, instead of the 4 o'clock timing position; come to think of it, both valves might appear to be closed...)

All of which is to say, that if you set up the new timing chain/gears with #1 piston at TDC, and the gears correctly indexed (I presume they're keyed or otherwise attached to the shafts so that they only go on one-way), and the timing gear marks nearest one another on a line drawn through the centers of the crank and camshafts, then there's no way the crank/cam timing could be amiss...

According to the pic in the MoToR's manual, at TDC, the Cam gear mark is at about 4 o'clock and the crank gear mark is at about 10 o'clock.

What I was thinking of in terms of a four-cycle engine getting "180 degrees out of time" has to do with the DISTRIBUTOR...( duh...dumb Frank ); it IS indeed possible to have the distributor 180 degrees out of time with the CAM ( and I've done THIS more than once! )...but if you did not remove the distributor when you were changing the timing chain, then the distributor/camshaft relationship should not have been altered.

It wouldn't hurt to double-check the wiring-order and make sure that TDC with the valves/timing mark corresponds to the rotor position on the distributor.

But, distributor timing should have no effect on basic compression...

Sorry if I contributed to any confusion !

How about going through the firing-order and checking the valve tappet clearanace to make sure there's enough clearance between the lifter and valve stem ?

Sounds like the cylinder walls look good - cover the pistons with Marvel Mystery Oil or ATF and let soak...if it drains past the rings, cover the piston again and continue to soak, for several days to a week - for the benefit of the rings.

Unless something is REALLY wrong with the rings, it sounds like you should be able to get Herman going again w/o a full rebuild...might need a valve job though...do you mind dropping the oil pan and checking bearing clearances and perhaps pulling a piston to really inspect the piston & rings, and measure the bore for taper? This might be advisable rather than throwing it all back together, getting it running, and discovering that you have loose bearings...generally speaking, I've found that any pre-1960's engine with more than 50,000 miles on it is not far away from needing some overhaul...maybe just rings & bearings...

Bear in mind that an engine coming out of a car with a 4.1 rear-end has quite a few more "Revs" on it (read: miles) than an engine from a 1960's-'70s vehicle with a rear end of 2.90 to 3.0...

Sounds promising so far...keep digging !

[Guest Silverghost]

The fact that there is no compression on 3-4 cylinders is just is a bit odd. I have never seen this with tight sealing valves...

I would like to see my 1 1/2 tablespoon of #40-#50 oil test done...after you are sure the valves are seating.

Another odd thing to check...

Are you sure that the intake manifold is not plugged-up on some of it's runners by mouse nests or debris??? This would prevent air/fuel from entering te cylinders!!!

I know...I know....but strange things do happen to a car that has not run in years; and has been in storage!!!

You might check exhaust manifold & pipes to make sure they are not plugged also!!!

If the valves are tight and sealing...you should get some compression on ALL cylinders despite possible stuck, or leaky rings...

Another thing to try is a cylinder leak-down test with a special "Leak-Down" compression tester...Some auto stores carry them...NAPA etc. or you can build your own... This is "THE REAL" test of rings and valves...

I doubt an engine that has been sitting for years would pass this leak-down test...

It should be tested AFTER you have the "Beast" up and running for 50-100 miles...

Running a car will work wonders for stuck rings!!!

I would bet you a large pizza that your problem is simple...

I don't think leaky/stuck rings would give you NO Compression at all on 3-4 cylinders!!!

Keep tryig...Good Luck!!!

[Guest Albert]

You can always check the cam timing roughly by turning the engine over by hand an watching the action of the walves, between the exhaust and intake valves as the piston go up as it approches tdc the valve should close and the intake open as the piston goes down. While you have the head off it would not be a bad idea to remove the valves and clean them up and relapp them back in.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Ok, today's update is relatively benign. I dropped Marvel's in all cylinders, enough to totally cover the piston head. After 12 hours, there was no obvious loss of fluid. I'll have a look this afternoon. I also bought a new compression gauge, one that turns into the spark plug hole rather than being held in the hole.

I checked the valves and seats and although there was carbon buildup outside of the valves and seat, the seating area was very clean.

I'll try Silver's oil test after I bolt it back up this afternoon or tomorrow.

One note of interest....

I've found many pecan shells, partially eaten in various sections of the motor from squirrels who probably used it.

Also, on motor side of intake manifold, I found a plate that is bolted to the manifold and one side has rusted through and away from the bolt. My diagrams don't give me enough information on the manifold to determine if this is a normal plate, manufactured on the manifold or if it was a back yard repair at some point in the past.

The thought of pulling the manifolds and having to deal with those bolts is quite unappealing to say the least. I'd like to avoid that until the motor at least runs and other issues raise their heads.

[Guest Albert]

I found pecan nuts in the exhaust ports of one Packard engine that mice had brought up, and also found dog food pellets around the exhaust valves in another Packard flat heat and the mice nest around some of the other valves. you may also want to try pouring a little varsolarount the valves and see if that seeps through the seats.

[Guest Silverghost]

Never under-estimate where mice & squirrels might have made their nests in an old car!!!

Where is this "Plate" on the manifold that you spoke about??? I doubt that it would cause compression loss...

What does it look like???

[RocketDude]

To have zero compression in several cylinders, you have more than leaking rings. It would have to have a hole in the piston, which isn't likely on several different cylinders. It is probably a burnt valve, or a valve not closing. Put each cyl in TDC with the valves closed, and screw an adaptor into the cylinder (spark plug hole) and hook it up to shop air pressure. That will tell you in a quick hurry where the air is going. If you have air blowing out of the carb, you have an intake valve problem, it it's coming out the exhaust, it's an exhaust valve. If it's coming out the crankcase breather, it's a piston or ring problem. This you should have done before removing the head, obviously. Put a little valve inline so you can control the flow of air pressure. If you have a tight cylinder, it will not leak, but will probably blow the piston down.

Good luck, keep us posted

[Guest Silverghost]

This is a SUPER IDEA !!!

Most auto stores carry the Spark-plug air fittings!!!

I hope you try it!!!

Bravo RocketDude!!!

[Guest JT]

At this point it's probably a little late for a leakdown test. I'd spend my time redoing the valves/seats if the cylinder walls look good, unless you're ready to go ahead and do a complete rebuild.

[Oxnard Montalvo]

"Your teeth are ok but your gums gotta go"

Alice Cooper.

The fact that it was on the cusp of starting leads me to believe you were a little quick on the trigger when you pulled the head. I say that not to insult but to get back to the initial problem.

Did it cough at all? Did you (oooooh) try ether? (Hey it's not a Dusenberg. A little shot now and then never hurt anybody.)

If rings will hold liquid over time, and the valves visually close, you MUST have had some compression. A piston comes up pretty fast. Zero is not an option. Faulty test for some reason. (JFK Jr. didn't trust his instruments so why should we.) That is unless no air could get in. You can't compress a vacuum. Maybe a blockage is the problem. Is the intake clear? Find any dead animals in it?

But hey, the heads off, rebuild it and try again. Head gaskets are cheap.

You may never know why it wouldn't run.

[Guest]

Are you sure that the camshaft gear and crankshaft gear are set right. I don't know about 53 Pontiac engines but on some engines the timing marks on the gears have to line up but be on the outside of the gears not adjacent to one another. In other words a straight edge would pass through the one the one circle on the outside of the camshaft, through the centers of both cam and crank shaft and then through the timing mark on the outside of the other gear.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Great ideas, great replies...thanks.

Update...cylinders held Marvel for 36 hours except #1 which is empty. Will have time this afternoon to do something else after cleaning Marvel out of cylinders.

Rocketdude..this was gonna be my next test. Doing some research on a 68 cutlass I'm looking to buy and this came up. Great idea. The new compression gauge I bought has the plug adapter and I'll just pop in the compressor fitting and find out where the leakage is.

Oxnard...yes tried ether, multiple times. No coughing, so spitting, just a seeming desire to spark. Plugs were new and now it's clear they were doing something as tips have blackened.

Tinindian...timing gears/chain were installed per manual. I'm still looking for info to see if it could be off though I'm not clear on how it could have happened or if it's even possible.

[Guest Silverghost]

While you still have the head off the engine...

why not clean & lap-in the valves with valve grinding/lapping compound???

You are halfway there anyway...

all you need is an L head valve spring compressor KD, OTC, NAPA, Snap-on,Sears etc...$30.-$50. and compound .

Don't forget to clean valve stems,& guides and be sure to replace Valve stem oil seals with new seals...$15.-$25.

At least then you would be able to rule the valves out of the problem!!!

It sounds like #1's rings may in fact be stuck...

Keep soaking with Marvel Oil or auto Trans fluid!

Do all your valves seem to be opening approx. the same amont???

Since the head is now off...why not spray the valve stems (With each valve open one at a time) with Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster or some other product to clean-up the stems & guides.

STILL...The fact that you got NO compression pressure on 3-4 cylinders is very strange and not at all normal!!!

Do you think the cam is any good???

If all valves open...it should be OK...

I wish I lived near you...I would like to see this problem engine!!!

[Guest Albert]

turning the motor over by hand, and watching the valve and piston action will tell you if the timing chain if off on timing or not. The cylinders that are low in compression pour a little varsol around the valves and see if that leaks through, if there is not enough of a recess to hold the varsol make a dam around the valves using some plastercene or such. I sounds like you may have to pull one of the rods and check the piston rings on the #1cylinder where the oil has leaked past the piston though, as you may have stuck rings which if left as is will burn a hole down the side of piston if nothing is done.

[Guest JT]

This is beginning to sound like a familiar scenario. "I'm just going to pull the head and fix a couple of burned valves" and next thing I know the engine hoist is out

Sounds like you're going to have to remove at least one piston to have a look at the rings and then of course you'll get to see if the crank and bearings look ok. While the piston out might as well go ahead and check the cylinder taper. Hopefully all that's within tolerance and you can get by with a set of rings and an in chassis valve job.

If you decide to go back and do a leakdown test don't forget to get each cylinder in tdc on the compression stroke and lock the engine down while testing.

[Guest mena]

It sounds as if you are sure of he valve timing, so check the seats by pressing a flashlight down over a valve while checking for light with a mirror hrough the side cover. I also like to make a ring around the valve head with rope caulk or silicone, then fill the ring with gasoline. gas should not leak through.

That being said, If valves are even partially seating you should get a compression reading of some sort, which leads me to believe that you could have a combinaion of problems. IE bad head gasket between the adjacent clinders, and a valve leaking in the number 4. good luck

[Guest mena]

Try blowing air into the carb, and verifying that a good flow of air is coming out of the intake valves. also check that the throttle plates in the carb are actually opening, and that throttle shaft is not broken. Compression test must be done with throttle fully open.(and choke plate) Might want to check for cracked cylinder wall between numbers 1 and 2.

Is he head still off

Earlier comments hinted at pistons and valves out of phase. The Whole purpose of lining up the timing marks on the gears is to put them into phase. Is it possible that you were sold the incorrect gears?

[Guest Silverghost]

Albert: This may sound like a stupid question...

BUT...What is Varsol ??? I have never heard of this product down here in the "States" ???

[Guest JT]

I've used it for many years as a parts degreaser. I think it's in the mineral spirits family.

Years ago you could find it at the corner filling station and it was dispensed into your own container.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Some great new suggestions. Thanks one and all.

At this point, I think my path forward for this weekend is to clean deposits off engine side to ensure there is no issue with the head gasket seating correctly. I'm going to try the compressed air through the intake to see if it is clogged or clear (not tried yet). Replace the head and do the blow by test. This will give me an idea of where the problem lies.

I'll then recheck the compression with the new gauge. The old one worked (tested on Ford truck) but don't know if it was accurate or not. I'll try and start again and see if the soaking/lubricating improved the situation.

If I get the same low/no compression situation then I'll move on from there.

One note of interest. Prior to the soaking, cylinder walls were clean. AFter the soaking, 5 and 6 left black ring marks on the inside of the walls. My assumption is this was the carbon buildup on rings which transfered to the cylinder walls.

Silverghost...Honestly, the main reason that I'm not doing the valve job now is that I'm afraid and lazy. I can get to the valve cover on cylinders 1-4 without problem, but taking off the cover for 5-8 will require removal of the intake and exhaust manifolds. 53 year old manifold bolts are not going to be fun and I'd anticipate several breaking off which will require all the associated work. I'd prefer it to run before going to this length, if at all possible. This is more a motivational issue than anything else. Looking at several more months of "no progress" kills motivation to continue.

Along these same lines, ordering parts and waiting the incumbent two weeks for them stalls my motivation and may allow my spouse to insert a "honey-do" project into the mix. It's almost Spring here and many of those projects surface at this time of year.

Technically, the valves seem to be opening the same amount, fully by assumption. I've not noticed any that are lower than any of the others. I have not measured them to know exactly.

Albert...I've used Marvels around the valves, thinking the same as you. It did not leak through. However, I think I will do something to build the dam as you suggest because there is little space for the fluid around the valves.

JT...what do you mean by "lock down the engine?"

Mena...I like the idea of the flashlight and the valves. This is definately a quick check I can do almost immediately. To answer a later question, I received the correct gears/chain. They were identical to the ones removed. Link count was correct as was tooth count. I will be trying the air through carb as soon as possible. Carb is good and functions properly. I rebuilt immediately prior to this phase/problem. I've verified operations of plates and gas (is flowing through jets into body).

Thanks everyone. Once this things gets started, I'm buying

[Guest JT]

JD, I meant that when you get the piston in test cylinder to tdc you should put car in gear with brake on so as air pressure will not push the piston down.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Thanks...will do. I feel an illness coming on so I'm going to take off work the rest of the day and see about getting this beast to start. Thanks,

[Oxnard Montalvo]

It's nice to see your priorities are in order.

[Guest mena]

Come on JD don't leave us hangin. What did you find out.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Sorry for delay in update...I actually had to do a little work today...also working on buying a 70 Riviera and 40 Chev today.

OK... first did the compressed air down the carb...good airflow out of the back four intake valves..actually blew some water out of the back two (from block water that went into valves when head came off). Could not tell if good flow in front four valves. Seemed to be...more on this later.

Cleaned all valves and seat areas of carbon buildup. Removed front valve cover. Valve seats et al there looked fine. Did the flashlight test on all sixteen valves. No light seeped through. I'm positive of the front 8 but had to use a mirror on the back 8 and it was dark enough in the garage under the hood that it seems like it would be evident if light leaked through.

Found cover on back of exhaust manifold had rusted through. Bolted it back temporarily. Could not remove original screws (surprise that that was not). What was a bit strange, was that when compressed air went into carb, that cover seemed to leak air. I'm not sure how, but pressing it firmly closed changed the tone of the air and removed air flow that I felt.

Replaced head. Did not torque head bolts to spec. Torque wrench on load to neighbor who was not at home. After head replacement, using new compression gauge, I have the following results:

#1 = 30lbs; #2=0 lbs; #3=60 lbs; #4 = 30lbs; #5 = 40 lbs; #6 = 45 lbs; #7 = 40 lbs; #8 = 40 lbs.

#2 was effectively 0 lbs, but was not actually 0, there was some air, but not enough to measure at 5 lbs.

Something strange that I remarked as I was doing the compression test. Cylinders 1-4 were dry, i.e. no liquid gas residue on plugs. Cylinders 5-8 were all wet with gas. This could have, I assume, been due to the time difference between tests. It's a bit strange though that I also found good air flow from carb air test to rear intakes, but can't be certain of the front four though there was definate air flow.

Due to time contraints, I did not have time to do the compression leak down test. That will be probably tomorrow. I had to put two new wheel cylinders on my 83 truck getting ready for sale. Tonight, will be buying 70 Riviera so no car work tonight. Valentine's Day tomorrow...so wife time.

While head was on, I did attempt to start. No actual fire. There remains spark at the plugs and gas to plugs (four anyway).

Compression readings seem a bit low (especially 2 )though 1 and 4 have come from 0 to 30 either through Marvel oil soak or through better compression gauge.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?