tbirdman Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well Xmas is over, but my present to myself came a little late but is here today. Looks like this is a great place to get advice when things go wrong as I've been lurking. I have zero experience with Packards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Great, Glad to hear it's a Coupe. Now we can share Coupe Stories. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Does it need some work or is it fully restored? And most importantly, do you have any extra parts that will fit a '29. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeTFlex Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 PLEASE - listen up !FIRST thing you should do, is "drop" the oil pan and clean it out. Unless the engine has been freshly overhauled, you will be SCARED at the muck and sludge you see on the flat surfaces of the bottom of the oil pan. VERY easy job on those years Super Eights.SECOND thing before driving it - "pull" the rear brake drums ( no fun, and you'll need an industrial grade wheel puller for this ) and see if you can see fresh grease on those monster double roller bearings. If you can't, unbolt the backing plates (only way to get at the bearings) and grease em up with a modern EP grade grease.I am sorry to tell you I have little confidence in the way so many people these days maintain their cars ( or have their cars maintained by others ). You HAVE to practice "defense maintainence" with new aquisitions.If you have any questions, please feel free to e mail me and ask me for my telephone number. THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS ! As many of us have noted before, the only thing that is REALLY stupid, is risking damaging fine vehicles by NOT asking those who have "been there". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 It is in great shape with little to be done. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Great, Glad to hear it's a Coupe. Now we can share Coupe Stories. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Does it need some work or is it fully restored? And most importantly, do you have any extra parts that will fit a '29. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 The engine is a pretty fresh rebuild and all the items like wheel bearing grease, fluids etc was done by the seller before I got the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 That's Too Bad, Now you won't have all that Fun, playing in the Rust and Grease. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's Too Bad, Now you won't have all that Fun, playing in the Rust and Grease. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>I've already had the retoration experience with my T-Bird. Once is enough. I'm trying to attach a file photo but it doesn't appeared to have worked. Any hints? Shouldn't be rocket science. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Oh but the maintenance never ends for all of us <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh but the maintenance never ends for all of us <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>that's the fun part...you become one with the car unlike a modern car where you just jump in a drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Welcome aboard tbirdman - always glad to have another Packard owner to gain some knowledge from. When you go to post you will see an entry to allow you to attach a picture just before you click on "Ok, submit". It's pretty simple and foolproof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When you go to post you will see an entry to allow you to attach a picture just before you click on "Ok, submit". It's pretty simple and foolproof </div></div>Well that's what I did before to attach a picture file, but let's try it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I get a standard MS message about page not found? Sorry I can't be of more help.Might as well post a picture just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Tbirdman, E-mail your picture to me at.... hot32rodder@yahoo.comI'll post the picture for you.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Randy. your picture didn't attach either... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />................................... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just messing with you, anxious to see this coupe. Hopefully, he'll email it to me.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Wayne, Speedster,If you read the first thread a little more closely, it's actually a coupe-roadster. That's Packard's nomenclature for a convertible coupe. I've seen pictures of this car and it is drop-dead gorgeous. Of course, I'm partial to earth-tone colors for cars of that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeTFlex Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I dont know what a "re-build" is, when that term is represented by a sellor...Sadly, there is a lot of incompetence amongst so called "classic rebuilders". In many cases, it is just "good business" NOT to waste money making a collector car road-worthy, because the shop knows the owner only wants it to show off at car shows, and the most severe driving the car will see is across the grass up into the trailer.Add to this the fact that younger people today have no conception, no reference points, for imagining how different the design requirements, engineering, and thus limitations of cars of that era are. End result: the buyer, after paying a LOT of money for a pretty-LOOKING car, often winding up at the side of the road waiting for the flat-bed.First and foremost - the "rear end" gearing of your car when new (and if still "bone stock") was so "low", that at 50 mph you are spinning that motor faster than may modern cars would be 90 mph or more.Secondly, your engine has a 5" stroke, meaning that if your motor was spinning at the SAME speed as a modern motor, the "loads" on the crank-pins would be MANY times higher. You combine that long stroke, with much higher rpms than a modern car, and you are imposing forces on the reciprocating parts geometrically many times harder.Thirdly, your connecting rod bearings, when the car was new, were simple "poured babbit". That worked out at a time when the cars were rarely driven more than 40 mph AND then only for a few minutes. Many early 30's Packards were overhauled during the 1950's and 60's, when used parts for these cars were cheap, and thus were re-fitten with 1935-1939 connnecting rods - these have modern "insert" rod bearings, which make those engines just about indestructible. (someone in here may be able to give you the reference for looking up the late 1934 Packard factory demonstration "run" of 25,000 mi. in a then new Packard Eight at 90 mph, celebrating the introduction of "insert" type rod bearings, ending the "rod bearing failure" issue).Today, when overhauling an engine of your era that was not already converted to "insert" type connecting rod bearings, responsible machine shops will machine out the "big end" of the connecting rod to take an "insert" connecting rod bearing, accomplishing the same thing the auto industry changed over to in the mid-1930's.Again, if your car still has "poured babbit" rod bearings, and has not been "re-geared" for today's roads, you would be well-advised not to drive it at anything over 42-45 mph EVER. If you have an over-drive and/or a "high speed" rear axle AND "insert rod" bearings, the superb brakes, great cooling system, and handling of that era Packards will give you a reliable safe driving experience no matter how fast you want to go ! Just remember about a phenomena called "brake fade". You get ONE good extreme speed stop, then those huge drum brakes will start to expand. The next extreme speed stop attempt will find the pedal nearly to the floor, and the third one, (or trying to stay with a modern "disc brake" car down a steep descent, and you will have practically NO brakes!Do fit it with seat-belts tho - as we say "crap happens". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know what a "re-build" is, when that term is represented by a sellor...Sadly, there is a lot of incompetence amongst so called "classic rebuilders". In many cases, it is just "good business" NOT to waste money making a collector car road-worthy, because the shop knows the owner only wants it to show off at car shows, and the most severe driving the car will see is across the grass up into the trailer.Add to this the fact that younger people today have no conception, no reference points, for imagining how different the design requirements, engineering, and thus limitations of cars of that era are. End result: the buyer, after paying a LOT of money for a pretty-LOOKING car, often winding up at the side of the road waiting for the flat-bed.First and foremost - the "rear end" gearing of your car when new (and if still "bone stock") was so "low", that at 50 mph you are spinning that motor faster than may modern cars would be 90 mph or more.Secondly, your engine has a 5" stroke, meaning that if your motor was spinning at the SAME speed as a modern motor, the "loads" on the crank-pins would be MANY times higher. You combine that long stroke, with much higher rpms than a modern car, and you are imposing forces on the reciprocating parts geometrically many times harder.Thirdly, your connecting rod bearings, when the car was new, were simple "poured babbit". That worked out at a time when the cars were rarely driven more than 40 mph AND then only for a few minutes. Many early 30's Packards were overhauled during the 1950's and 60's, when used parts for these cars were cheap, and thus were re-fitten with 1935-1939 connnecting rods - these have modern "insert" rod bearings, which make those engines just about indestructible. (someone in here may be able to give you the reference for looking up the late 1934 Packard factory demonstration "run" of 25,000 mi. in a then new Packard Eight at 90 mph, celebrating the introduction of "insert" type rod bearings, ending the "rod bearing failure" issue).Today, when overhauling an engine of your era that was not already converted to "insert" type connecting rod bearings, responsible machine shops will machine out the "big end" of the connecting rod to take an "insert" connecting rod bearing, accomplishing the same thing the auto industry changed over to in the mid-1930's.Again, if your car still has "poured babbit" rod bearings, and has not been "re-geared" for today's roads, you would be well-advised not to drive it at anything over 42-45 mph EVER. If you have an over-drive and/or a "high speed" rear axle AND "insert rod" bearings, the superb brakes, great cooling system, and handling of that era Packards will give you a reliable safe driving experience no matter how fast you want to go ! Just remember about a phenomena called "brake fade". You get ONE good extreme speed stop, then those huge drum brakes will start to expand. The next extreme speed stop attempt will find the pedal nearly to the floor, and the third one, (or trying to stay with a modern "disc brake" car down a steep descent, and you will have practically NO brakes!Do fit it with seat-belts tho - as we say "crap happens". </div></div>Actually the 2nd buyer removed from me experienced the problem of a cosmetically rebuilt car when he bought it 94. Since he bought it in 94, he restored all of the mechanicals. I will benefit from all of his $work$. From the engine rebuild receipts it looks like it still has babbett rods. If the car had the standard gears for open cars of 4.41, I don't see how the high speed gears pf 4.06 that are offered will help much as they look only to provide about 5 MPH top end. I would think overdrive is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard8 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Hi Birdman,Congrats on the new addition! If I were you, I wouldn?t worry about the rod brgs or rear axle. These cars were never meant to be pushed to modern Freeway speeds, and to me, part of the allure of prewar cars is correct period mechanicals. Was an OD offered for that year?...if so, that would be the way to go. Hope to see some pix when you can post them.Best,John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeTFlex Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 You are 110% correct ! Even the optional 4.06 gear set available then as an option, is still WAY too "low" for even CITY driving these days!As you may know, you can buy a 3.54 gear set today thru one of the fellows who advertises in Hemmings. My understanding is that it is a MAJOR machining problem. Given the difficulty of correctly setting up a new hypoid gear set, I think your idea to use one of the many over-drives, is the better way to go.The "trick" is, build yourself a full rubber-mounted carrier for the over-drive unit - that will isolate the "gear rumble" so many people who have bought these "add on" overdrives complain about.I am jealous - wish they had those over-drives when I re-geared my Packard Twelve. I had the advantage of a later model Packard than yours ("modern" style insert rod bearings, but even with the driving conditions of the late 1950's when I did that, I couldnt stand the screaming rpms at normal road speeds that keep getting faster every day. The obvious advantage of going to an overdrive, is that you still have that absurdly low gear ratio for crawling around car shows and parades, great high hear response at low speeds, but then, on the open road, you will be able to enjoy the car without being a hazzard from going too slow.LET'S SEE THE PICTURES. I loved my '34 Super Eight ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeTFlex Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 For Packard8 The problem with "period correct mechanicals" is that we dont have "period correct" driving conditions. Some of us actually LIKE our hobby cars, and want to get them out on the road. Problem with that - poking along at 40 45 mph is a safety hazzard - I dont want to be rear ended by a city bus or garbage truck !I dont see how you can take the position that a over-drive installed between an authentic engine and rear end is in any way hurting our enjoyment of the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Congratulations on your new car and welcome to the pre-war Packard universe. Early thirties Packards are some of my favorite cars. Mine's a '34 sedan. In my experience and not altogether unbiased view, Packard made one of the finest, best crafted and carefully engineered vehicles in the world during the twenties and thirties. You have chosen wisely.Don't be alarmed by some of the soapbox opinions offered here. With age does not always come wisdom. Get to know your car and its beauty, both aesthetic and mechanical. If it were mine, I would immediately change all fluids (engine, gearbox and diff oil; radiator) and refill with correct. Further, I would adjust all the mechanical systems to my satisfaction; include brakes, clutch, engine timing, point gap, fanbelt tension; everything that can be adjusted should be. Finally, I would lubricate everything that should be. In short, I would give it a complete service. This will have the dual benefit of preparing your car for enjoyable motoring and point up any possible faults but also familiarize you with the brilliant piece of work it is. There! You just got another opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard8 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For Packard8 The problem with "period correct mechanicals" is that we dont have "period correct" driving conditions. Some of us actually LIKE our hobby cars, and want to get them out on the road. Problem with that - poking along at 40 45 mph is a safety hazzard - I dont want to be rear ended by a city bus or garbage truck ! </div></div>GM 350 Crate Motor, TH400 tranny, Camaro front clip with disc brakes, Ford 9 inch rear axle, a set of Boyd?s 20?s and there ya go! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GM 350 Crate Motor, TH400 tranny, Camaro front clip with disc brakes, Ford 9 inch rear axle, a set of Boyd?s 20?s and there ya go! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div> For SHAME, For SHAME, you should Not even think such, Sacrilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Wow you found a beautiful one there. Thanks for sharing pictures with us.Now to get mine running again. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btinkey Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 First of all, Merry Christmas to you and what an excellent choice in gifting! Thanks for posting the pictures, I really like them. I have considered the choices of changing the rear gear or adding an overdrive and I have come to the conclusion that driving a little slower in today's fast paced world is not a bad thing. So I intend to keep my Packard bone stock and drive the car in the manner she was designed. If that means I need to adapt my needs to the cars ability, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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