MY FINAL BUGLE, MR EDITOR- BCA NO:#36684

[Buicks Rule]

Buicksplus--Read the Rules the Modified Division plans to use. Buick Powered and Buick Bodied seems a very common thread. Read the minutes elsewhere here on the forum where I mentioned above.

I believe that the entry form for Modified Division for 2005 SAID BUICK POWERED only. Since the BCA National is a Pre-Registration only event, there is no on site show registration. So, he who registers and doesn't read the rules probably would and should be turned away. Just like cars without fire extinguishers.

I don't know what's in the Sedanette on the cover. My guess is a Buick 350, 400 or 455.

Seriously folks. READ THE FREAKIN RULES. They're online. Some of what people are fussing about just ain't gonna happen based on what the BCAMD folks are planning to do.

One of the principals in the BCAMD has restored at least 2 cars to BCA Senior Gold level, with his two hands. They have also won AACA Awards as well. Another has been involved with the BCA since the very first, and frankly knows more about BUICKS built since 1930 than anyone else in the BCA. He is very generous with his time. Neither of them is going allow anything that HURTS the BCA to happen.

I won't mention either name because they are both very modest and frankly, any one who looks for the facts of the situation will know who I'm talking about without the names being posted here.

Whatever the BCAMD decides to do, it will be uniquely BUICK and with tolerance and willingness to learn from both sides will strengthen both sides of the BUICK hobby. It will also be BUICK focused. If we get more rodders to use BUICK engines, then maybe those of us wanting to use STOCK BUICK engines will have additional replacement parts to choose from.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Whatever the BCAMD decides to do, it will be uniquely BUICK and with tolerance and willingness to learn from both sides will strengthen both sides of the BUICK hobby. It will also be BUICK focused. If we get more rodders to use BUICK engines, then maybe those of us wanting to use STOCK BUICK engines will have additional replacement parts to choose from. </div></div>

Oh, so you're saying that if Jay Leno shows up at the next National with his 55 Century wanting to enter in in the MD he will be rejected!!!!. Thats absolutely GREAT. Can I be the one to tell him. That's the cut-off point for me. The engine of a car is its heart, remove that and it's dead. I don't think we'll ever see a non Buick engined car accepted in the MD. At least I pray not!!

Hot rodders love the Nailheads. They're known for their torque and staying together under high revs and good oil circulation due to the nomenclature of the heads etc.

Forum member Brad54 (occupation-magazine columnist and photogropher) has some photos of some F**d hot rods with nailheads. A beautiful sight!! Maybe he'll post. (But actually I don't know if he checks in here much anymore. Last time I talked to him he said something to the affect of Tommy's whining and incessant complaining gettin his blood pressure up too much.

[Buicksplus]

From Buick's Rule:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously folks. READ THE FREAKIN RULES. They're online. Some of what people are fussing about just ain't gonna happen based on what the BCAMD folks are planning to do. </div></div>

I thought I did read the rules: Some of them were printed in the recent Bugle. it says non-Buick powered cars can be shown but will receive a mandatory deduction. That tells me you are going to see plenty of SBC at your rod shows, though it may be hard for them to win anything.

Can't imagine BCA turning away folks for having Chevy engines in their rods -- especially when that's the engine of choice for most rod hobbyists. That Buick engine rule may affect the winner's circle at shows, but don't be shocked when hundreds of Chevy-powered Buicks show up at your event.

[jscheib]

Well, let me throw in my 2 cents on the most recent post. I doubt you will ever see "hundreds" of any modifieds show up at any BCA local function, or regional, if they have Buick engines or not. If they are, I would welcome their entry fee. Yes, the rules for BCA judged events will have deductions for non-Buick engines. Most local events are peer judged so they have a chance for a trophy, of course subject to what their peers (other entrants) think of the car and engine selection.

I am not an expert on hot rods, but in reading some of the forums, is it possible the selection of the SBC engine because it is a quick and easy installation rather then building a Buick engine? Hence maybe that is the reason for the decision of the MD to take a mandatory deduction for the "easier" route. I am just asking the question, as I am not sure of the reasoning, but the BCA is the Buick Club, not a street rod club. I doubt anyone with a modified Buick with a non-Buick engine is going to swap out an engine for a trophy - maybe they will, but the point is to reward those that want to keep their vehicle mostly Buick in power and appearance, I would think.

John

[Buicks Rule]

Remember, what's printed in the Bugle is often 2-3 months old at the time it's printed. Board meetings happen every 3 months. Decisions DO get modified.

Read the minutes from Batavia if you did not attend the Board or General Membership meetings at the meet. One of the purposes of having both meetings open to an audience and encouraging member comments at the meeting; not to mention posting them to the website, is to make sure that those members who want to know what's going on can do so easily.

Since National's are pre-reg only events, the host chapter also finds themselves turning away stock cars whose owners don't "bother" to pay attention to the previous 12 months of registration forms.

The BCAMD folks are still writing in pencil. When they realized that the rigid originality enforcement in Drivers Class was resulting in cars with helper cooling fans or 12V generators/batteries being declared Modified, they began to try to divide into 4 categories of mild to wild so that those cars that were denied the Drivers Award for what many of us would consider very, very mild and very transparent modifications would have a place to be welcomed and possibly compete for an award.

READ THE MINUTES. That's why they are online. Chapters get a hard copy mailed to them, so if you're in a chapter, read them there. If you like, or don't like, what the board is doing, write them a letter or email them through the National Office. All board related correspondance needs to pass through the office so the club can maintain records.

[NTX5467]

When is a Small Block Chevy not completely a Small Block Chevy (in the generic sense of the definition)??? When it's the "LT1" version (as in "L T no-dash 1" !) which powered the last generation of Buick Roadmaster rwd sedans. THAT's an important distinction in the case of the Buick Modified Division!!!

You can take an LT1 and make it a generic Small Block Chevy by putting the distributor where it normally would be (which has a plug to keep the oil pump drive in the same place and "working") and also adding a carburetor in place of the fuel injection unit, but I haven't heard of anybody doing the opposite (other than the dirt track racers adapting a reverse flow cooling system situation to the normal Small Block Chevy engine in their special-use racers).

Now, for some other "history", the reason I made the "L T no-dash 1" distinction is because of the original LT-1 engine, which was a 350cid Corvette engine and served for the basis of the 2nd Gen Camaro Z-28 engine in the 1970 era cars.

As the LT1 engine is a valid production situation in the last gen Buick Roadmaster rwd sedans and wagons, that should meet the "Buick powered" orientation (an engine that came from the factory in a Buick vehicle, as a "regular production" situation,) although it's not of the same architecture as a "Buick Motor Division designed" engine.

Just wanted to make that point before the "generic SBC" issue might taint things any farther . . .

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

Curious question . . . what constitutes "original" in the Airstream trailer judging criteria? Or is it more about trailering them around and enjoying them, plus showing them off at sanctioned club get-togethers? Again, just curious as I've only seen cable shows on TLC about them.

In the case of those fantastic GM Motorhomes of the 1970s, each of the fabrics for the drapes, the upholstery, carpets, etc. ALL had part numbers on them, just like normal GM parts. Each trim level/model had their own unique and distinctive trimmings, just like regular cars. Even a few years after those fantastic motorhomes were out of production, the replacement trim items were very likely long gone, just as I suspect the similar Airstream or Winnebago items might also be.

Just some side issue thoughts and curiousities . . . nothing more.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[HurstGN]

OK, I'll toss my .02 into the fray, just for the fun of it.....

I like to see both modified and unmodified cars. I take into consideration the reason for the owners final decision. Dan's Limited and Dart for instance, I can speak to these 2 cars because I've seen them both in person. The Limited is nice, and it's damn near all original. It won't break the bank to put original parts on it and keep it that way. I can appreciate this line of thinking. The Dart. It would break the bank to make this car all original and end up with a car worth what? Not what he'd have into it. So it's getting modified a bit. It's not a gem of history that needs to be preserved for our children's children to see...so a few tasteful mods and it's still with us today. Anyone want to drive the Dart on poly tires? C'mon, where's the first fool to step up to the plate on that one? Yea, I thought so.

As far as the car Roberta rescued from the crusher, and today it's modified and running strong as a driven car. COOL! I'd bet to return the car to 100% original would be cost prohibitive if at all possible. So it's modified and still with us. I like that.

On the TV show American Hot Rod, on more than one occasion I've seen them take cars that were damn near complete, original cars, and hack, cut, weld, and do all kinds of horrible things to it to make it a "hot rod". They did it with the hot rod build competition, and the Impala too. These episodes of the show made me sick! Apparently Boyd tried to buy the Impala in the past, and was refused as the owner wanted to keep it original. But when Boyd pays over market value to get the car to cut it apart and destroy the originality for the sake of a TV show....well, dedicated to our military or not, that just makes me sick. He couldn't find a rustier example to modify. One that was already a bondo queen? They redid all the sheetmetal and frame anyways. Sick.

Anyone here like the 2000 Blackhawk? Wow, look at the hands in the air. OK, now imagine this was a 37 Buick from the salvage yard that was destined for the crusher and somebody spend 10 years customizing it to the car it is today. Anyone not like it now? I still like it. OK, how about if this was a pristine 37 that went through the chop mill to create the car we see today? Anyone not like it now? I don't like it now. The difference, the roots of the car, the work accomplished, the time spent to save an old relic from the crusher. If that's the case, I like it. If it was a chop and hack to make it, I don't like it. We know it was neither, but it gives us something to think about.

Perhaps saving the old cars is best done by making them roadworthy and customized a bit. Perhaps the best way is to restore it to it's original state. That's a decision the owner must make. But if a car can be saved and it becomes a custom in the process because that's the only way to save the car, I'll take it. The 48 on the cover of the Bugle, I didn't read the article yet, but if it was a salvage yard junker brought back to life, I'll take it!

[Glassesguy]

Dan echoes many of my thoughts. Too many good originals are being modified. Why? Well, it's easier to work with good sheet metal than rusty. The '48 on the Bugle cover strikes me as a car that was saved from rotting away (sitting under a tree and kids using it as a slide), so if it returned to life as a modified, then that's fine. Several years ago I sold a 39 Special conv coupe. It was apart but fairly complete. Lots of metal work in the floors and quarters had been done, but it was done poorly and incorrectly when I bought it. Although sentimentally I would like to have seen it restored as original, realistically it could be done either way. I know it's been sold again, so I hope who has it now will make it great original or a fantastic modified. I also agree with the sentiments regarding some of Coddington's cars. Several nice originals have been destroyed by their efforts. Trouble is, those cars are now worth more than nicely restored originals. Like it or not, that's the market forces working. We know the overriding principle here is that a person's car is his to do as he pleases. I also know that since we can't take these cars with us to our final reward, we are not really the "owners": we are the custodians for a given period of time. Nice originals should be passed on down for others to appreciate. If modifying a car is the only way to save it from disappearing or crushing, then go for it.

By the way the BCA has definitely NOT turned into a modified club. I really don't see how that conclusion was reached with any sound logic. Mr. Snowden, as our Editor, forthrightly stated he chooses to run one issue annually featuring modifieds. The Bugle,over the many years I have been a member, has featured various years or models in a dedicated issue. Modifieds are now assuming their place in this arena as well.

This essay probably won't change any minds, but it's great to have a forum like this to openly express opinions and thoughts,that may not get aired in a meeting or at a meet. Even after 34 years of membership. I'm still pleased to be a part of the BCA and to watch it evolve.

"Ok,Warden, I'll go quietly, now".

[Guest sixpack2639]

My sentiments exactly Dan. I personally think of myself as a pureist, but also a preservationist. I say if it's a nearly complete original, and you can manage it, restore it as such. If all you have to work with is a body and frame and you want to drop a SBC in it. So be it. At least it's being saved from a fate of being melted down and becoming some "Made in China" piece of crap that nobody really wants or needs. Just my 2 cents. Carl

[Guest GS70Stage1]

I am completely in the original camp and with those who drive vs trailer their cars. I am the original owner on the 70 GS that I drove 3100 miles (each) round trip from Orlando to Flint and Batavia. And first time it was judged got a 389 points - I am serious about being original. Also BCA #3822.

That said, I have completely changed my mind on allowing modifieds in the BCA. When I talk to these people it has occurred to me these people love their cars as much as I love mine. I think the main purpose of the BCA is to be a forum and place for people who love their Buicks to get together, enjoy their cars and enjoy each other. IMHO, they fit this defination.

[The Old Guy]

My computer has been down for 3 weeks, and I see I have almost missed all the fun!!

First of all ,the BCAMD will allow any engine, but if it is not a Buick engine ,the will receive a mandatory deduction.

Many of the people on this forum are of the opinion that if you like "modifieds" you will destroy a good Buick . I would like to state that there is room in the hobby ( that is what this is) for EVERYONE!! I have been involved with the BCA since 1969, and joined primarily because my boys wanted to take my drag car (29 Ford with 427 chev power) to school. I have since had Buicks that have placed well in BCA judging and have been invited to Meadowbrook, so they were nice authentic cars.

At the present, I have Buicks for every occasion, my 40 Super convert( which has been to Meadowbrook and twice to "eyes on Design) has been driven by me over 101,000 miles, and it is still presentable.

It does have a 41 exhaust manifold so it will accept dual exhausts , which is a legal change according to tne board, so I can get a driven award ,if I so choose.

I also have a 37 Special coupe with 455 Buick power, which I take to the street rod shows. I did bring it to Batavia to support the "Modified" division , as I feel that we need younger members ,and just maybe they will do as I did and build an original Buick. If you look at the workmanship on some of these "Rods" you will be amazed at the talent displayed. I know that many were built with a deep pocket, and no hands on experience, but there are many built in 2 car garages, with paint and body work that is fantastic!

My 72 GS 455 convert also would need to go in tne "Modified' class because it has numerous engine mods (headers-intake- cam -etc) but I used to drag race it , and now use it mostly to harass kids on the street with the new Mustangs and "rice rockets"

Now that I am getting to an advanced age ( When I was born, the Dead sea wasn't even sick) I enjoy the creature comforts, so my 69 Sport Wagon has all the toys ,and we use it primarily for BDE functions.

With all that said, it is your perogative to like or dislike any car , but many of you are missing the point! Whether you look at your Buick as a work of art, and trailer it to the meets to gather a trophy, or you drive it everywhere and it is full of road rash, you are doing what YOU want with your car. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant. The BCA has something VERY special, and that is that most of the members have a genuine love of cars, and it does not matter whether you are white collar, blue collar, or no collar, you have the one common denominator--BUICKS and that should help us bridge some of the gaps!

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

THANK YOU JOE!!!!!!! I have been wondering through this whole new thread "WWTOGD" (What Would "The Old Guy" Do)

Thank goodness you got the computer up and running. I for one was starting to wonder where you were.

You got a lot of catchiin up to do. Welcome back

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Well said...as for the '72, that's what happened to many of them back then. I had a friend with a '69 GTO that had a built engine...receipts from '70 or '71 were in the glove compartment...kinda makes you wonder where to put that.

As for what started all of this, perhaps (putting on my pondering cap, that is all) the modified car articles in the Bugle might be better accepted by the staid purists if, instead of an issue pretty much devoted to modifieds, there be roughly one article in each Bugle. This would give everyone something to read and enjoy each month, even if they aren't very tolerant of the other crowd. It also means the modified devotees would have something for them in 12 issues, rather than just one. The pure restorationists (it's fun to make up words sometimes) could just skip over one article per Bugle rather than using 1/12 of their new ones for fire starter or toilet paper substitute.

Just a thought.

If internal engine mods to your GS would make it ineligible for a driven award, methinks I may have to go through the rules with a fine-toothed comb as I wonder if my '62 will get the boot next year in the driven class as it has a few minor things that aren't original.

[The Old Guy]

Derek, The driven award has some rules, and they can explained by using the old circle track motto "stock to the eye'. If you don't have any obvious exterior mods, they won't bother you.

It has been my observation that no matter what you do with the Bugle, someone will be unhappy. The first Bugles were mimeographed sheets sent out with a picture glued to them. The little Bugle was a big improvement, and the new Bugle is GREAT! There are people that get upset about a misspelled word and do not realize that it is in a really good story.

I would wager that if you put one modified a month in the Bugle there would be even more dissension. This way we only have to put up with it once a year.

Lamar, I was having serious withdrawal symptoms, so my son rebuilt it as fast as he could.

It's good to be back.

[Guest]

I agree, with 10 days left as a member of the BCA I vote to let the VW golf division, and run a cover photo every third issue.