Buying a Canadian car: Chapter 3: "Big Government Bites Dad"

[RVAnderson]

Well Diz, I guess that Big Government got us after all. When we brought Dad?s ?23 back from Canada through US Customs at 12:02 AM, the young officer asked us a bunch of questions about the car (?Can you still get tires for them?? Etc.) and waved us on through. Never even asked to see our meticulously prepared paperwork. Now, when Dad and Mom went to NY DMV to license it, they were accused of having tried to avoid paying duty on it! They told Dad that he had to load the car back on the trailer and go back up to the Queenston-Lewiston entry and do the whole thing all over again, this time paying the proper duty that he?d tried to ?avoid? the first time. I thought he was going to have a stroke. He asked why, if paying duty (which he was totally prepared to do when we came through) was required, why it wasn?t collected when we had the car right there? He voiced the radical, anti-government idea that folks who are paid to do so, i.e. Customs officers, should know the law better than us serfs. He further wondered why it?s always incumbent upon the individual to have to clean up the bureaucracy?s mess at their own expense. Dad pointed out that having to bring the car back up there is going to cost an entire day of his time. The only response was that ?it?s your job to know this stuff.? Dad wondered then: if that?s so, then he should be entitled to a Customs pension upon his retirement. He practically got thrown out of the DMV. He?s still ticked off about it.

[DizzyDale]

Dear RV,NOW its time for your Dad to call one of his new found politician pals to straighten this MESS out so he can avoid a ridiculous road trip.My guess is you cannot use government employees,DMV [state employees] and common sense in the same sentence.ALL RATHER DISHEARTENING.diz

[Shop Rat]

Diz, Falls right in with a mantra that I came up with working for the phone company for thirty-one years and four months. "Logic will not be tolerated."

[stock_steve]

In my view, trips to the DMV are exceeded in enjoyment quotient only by trips to the dentist.

I feel your pain.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Time to get in touch with your State and Federal representatives...

I had a less than positive trip down to MVA Harrisburg trying to get a historic tag for my 1955 dump truck...when the pictures came back down from the entity in the "Special Tag" dept. (who dispense the "Antique" tags), they had a sticky note attached informing me that the 1-1/2" pipe rack at the front of the dump body "had to come off", and I had to take new pictures. The historic, 1-1/2" pipe rack that was installed by the original owner, in 1955...I didn't even try to press my case...

I could have argued that when the truck left the Chevrolet plant on Broening Highway in Baltimore, it didn't even have the dump body on it ! Gee, would they give me an "Antique tag" for a "cab & chassis" ?

The poor fellow next to me was trying to straighten out his title/ antique tag debacle on an AC 3-wheeler car he was bringing over from England...he was on his third trip to MVA.

He was more sucessful than I; he left, tag in hand.

When your Dad goes back to Customs, he should get names of clerks and supervisors...the Federal guy probably thought he was doing you guys a "favor" by waving you through...

Maybe we should put the NY DMV in charge of "Homeland Security"...

[DizzyDale]

Dear Steve,Recent budget PROBLEMS in Erie County of which Buffalo is included have ONE Motor Vehicle office open.4 and 5 hour waits are NOT uncommon,so i registered a recently acquired car 30 minutes away in an adjoining county.I was the first one in line,15 minutes i was out of there.The clerks treated me like a human being,a pretty painless experience except for the TAX part.UNBELIEVABLE.diz

[RVAnderson]

Diz, Dad has been in contact with Sen. Cathy Young's office and they were hugely helpful. They promised to contact the Feds in Buffalo on Tuesday and see if they could help straighten it out. No doubt we will have to pay some sort of duty but the nonsense aspect about "avoiding" it and having to pay a penalty or even the threat of having the car seized should disappear. I have worked with Senator Young's husband Richard at my school for 10 years now; in fact he was on the interview committee which hired me in the first place and he is a good friend of mine. Sen. Young straightened out a tax situation for me two years ago within a week of soliciting her help, so with me anyway she has a proven track record. After talking with them Dad is a whole lot calmer. Sen. Young's office seemed totally confident that he wouldn't have to drive all the way back to the port of entry, anyway.

[Guest JT]

What was it Lily Tomlin as Ernestine said, something like "sir, we're the phone company we don't have to care"

[Shop Rat]

Sounds like something she would have said. The guy that draws the "Dilbert" cartoons also worked at the phone company. Belive me, his cartoons reflect life at the phone company as we knew it.

[rocketraider]

I've always been wary of trying to import a car for that very reason. It was bad enough trying to register the YOM plates on my 64 Starfire back in 1989, when that option first became available for antique cars in VA. The flipside is that now the local DMV knows about the antique plates etc, they allow almost ANYTHING to wear them. I've got a list of vehicles wearing antique plates here that are obviously not driven and maintained as antique/collectible that I'm about ready to turn into DMV headquarters, with pictures. I see no reason why a beat-all-to-hell 1978 Chevette used as a garage shop vehicle should be allowed to wear antique plates- it has a push bar on front!

Re: Dilbert. We have often thought that Scott Adams has a mole in our company, because some of the absolutely inane shat corporate comes up with often appears in Dilbert about the same time. Then we are reminded that all of Corporate America goes thru the same stuff, thanks to the myriad consultants and MBA's who are really running things and making out like bandits while their nonsensical ideas are costing contracts and jobs right and left. One of my favorite Dilberts is Catbert Consulting trying to sell the pointy haired boss on a Six Sigma program (a real consultant program BTW).

Catbert: "You have to implement a Six Sigma program else you're doomed."

PHB: "Aren't you the same consultant who sold us that worthless TQ program a few years ago?"

Catbert: "I assure you it has a totally different name!"

PHB (with glassy eyes): "When can we start?!"

[stock_steve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a list of vehicles wearing antique plates here that are obviously not driven and maintained as antique/collectible that I'm about ready to turn into DMV headquarters, with pictures. </div></div>

Do your state's antique plate regulations require that a car be "driven and maintained as an antique/collectible?"

Reason I ask is that to my knowledge, our state, Connecticut's, do not. Antique plates are issued to vehicles 25 years old or older, if the owner requests it--and the only "benefit" is that the owner's town doesn't get to tax the car for mroe than $500. But again, there are no "drive/maintain" controls (that I am aware of). In my humble opinion, the last thing we want to do is bring down more scrutiny on our old car hobby by state government bureaucrats--NOTHING good can come from it.

[Guest Sherwood Kahlenberg]

To my knowledge there is NO duty applicable to any vehicle being imported into the USA that was originally built in the USA. Your DMV is wrong! Sherwood Kahlenberg

[RVAnderson]

'Cept that Dad's T is Canadian-built and has "Made In Canada" all over it. That doesn't change the fact that they ARE wrong about things being Dad's mistake.

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the last thing we want to do is bring down more scrutiny on our old car hobby by state government bureaucrats--NOTHING good can come from it. </div></div>

The Commonwealth is actually pretty lenient as far as use of our cars goes. We are not limited to the usual "parades, car shows, or testing" as many states are, and are allowed to drive the car up to 250 miles from home for pleasure driving. Antique/vintage registered cars are exempted from state safety and emissions inspections, as well as personal property tax and local licensing fees. Those plates also cost a one-time fee- $11 vs a minimum of $31.50/year for basic licensing. So you see the financial incentive of the antique plate is attractive.

Increased scrutiny is exactly what will happen once the police start yelping about rattletrap, poorly maintained cars registered as antiques, therefore exempting them from state safety inspections- which most of the cars on that list would not pass anyway. The intent of the law assumed that persons owning an antique car tend to maintain them better than the general public.

This is one case where it would pay to be proactive and make sure the plates are registered only to cars that are used and maintained as collectible. Not every POS 25 years or older whose owner is looking to beat the system while using the car as daily transportation. Those are the type people who will eventually get the privileges bona fide hobbyists have worked for yanked out from under them. If that means turning in a questionable plate, yes, I'll do it- as you should if you value your antique licensing privileges.

[stock_steve]

I appreciate your viewpoint, though I still am in complete disagreement. And I definitely would not appreciate a "fellow enthusiast" turning me in to the authorities if I did not appear to be conforming to their "judgement" on how I choose to legally enjoy my antique automobile.

[rocketraider]

Understand that these are not enthusiasts driving these cars. These are ragged out vehicles that people are using antique plates on to get the inspection and licensing breaks. I don't consider a beat-to-hell Chevette with a push bar on the front being used as a shop vehicle to be an antique or even enthusiast's car. Or a 72 Ford 3/4 ton pickup used in a lawn care business, or a 69 Dodge wagon used by a painting crew.

Or am I in the minority here in thinking that such vehicles should not wear antique plates?

[stock_steve]

I'm suggesting there may perhaps be a possibility that an enthusiast is driving his "project car" that may not yet be "show worthy"--or maybe has not even been touched yet by any restoration effort--that may *appear* to be wearing antique tags for whatever "subversive" purpose.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Rocket,

I agree that abuse of the privilege is a bad thing...

But there are distinctions...there's the guy who has a barn-fresh Model A that he likes to drive "As-discovered" to local meets...then there are those who are trying to skirt the law...

Here in PA, there are folks who do the same thing with the regular plate and "safety inspection".

The fuzz are pretty hard on folks running around too much on Historic plates here ("not more than one day a week)...that's why my cars don't wear 'em.

But, if Beavis from down the junkyard is haulin' in wrecks with a '67 Ford F-350 with six bald tires, broken windshield, poor brakes, and broken lights, and on antique tag to boot, that's just wrong and that sort need to be stopped.

Part of the agreement about the antique tag here in PA is that the vehicle is expected to be maintained in a safe operating condition.

Now the import duty thing is a whole 'nother ball o' wax...

Nothin' like government in action to riase your BP !