Buick Modified Division-I'm confused?

[Guest Greg Ross]

January Issue of the Buick Bugle has, inside the front cover leaf, an application for membership in the "BUICK MODIFIED DIVISION"

It's stated belief is for;

1) Modifying BUICKs for personal satisfaction and safety is acceptable.

2) Encouraging the use of BUICK driveline components in modified models.

3) Use of other manufacturer's engines in BUICKs is discouraged. and

4) We will work towards the acceptance of modified BUICKs in the BCA.

Now here comes the confusion, the back jacket includes an entry registration for the July 2005 National Meet in Batavia, NY. In the BUICK model section the second last blanks to be filled in are for "Modified" -"Yes/ or No" A foot note states "Must be Buick bodied, Buick engine preferred"

I've been a BCA/ Reatta Div. Member for probably 5 years now and the two Nationals I've been to there was discussion about creating this new "Modified Div" I guess I've been particularly disappointed there has not been a move within the Reatta Div. to embrace the "Modified" movement. It has sounded as though, at least in my area of interest that I would not be judged/ grouped with Reattas but lumped in with all modifieds" I guess for me it's the exclusion from the division I naturally gravitate to, to be sent elsewhere away from the group of enthusiasts I naturally belong to?

Another thread here recently got into the discussion on the "so-called" purity of restoration. I don't intend to offend, but, those individuals who only want to encourage elite "Factory original" examples are, I believe missing the point. We as a group have a common interest-BUICKs, whether you retain, restore or modify is secondary to the automotive interest.

I'm rambling a bit so I'll try to get back and focus to the original question, how is it we have a new division with the stated goal of working towards acceptance of modifieds within the BCA when, as far as a Meet is concerned it's a matter of indicating on your registration if your entry is "Modified" or not?

What am I missing here? What is/ will be different where judging of "Modifieds" is concerned?

I don't have any gripe with Reattas being a separate Division, the production only ran 4 model years, there are apparently some 18,000 out of over 21,000 still in existance. Of that total there are perhaps 20 BCA/ Reatta Div members who own and show really fine original condition vehicles, what about the prospects of the other 17,980 potential enthusiasts out there.

Part II or this BLURB pertains to the Reatta Fleet, as it ages and accumulates high mileage what are the options;

Take an old "Daily Driver" and restore it, why bother when for probably half the cost you can likely pick up an exceedingly low mileage original condition vehicle.

What about modifying those aging vehicles, abundant supply of GM parts that pretty much bolt on, customize via whatever turns your crank. Yep, but we're not welcome at the Reatta Div., or

Show them up against Street Rods and wild Customs, the Reattas will be lost.

Repeated threads on the subject of modifying Reattas come up on that Discussion Board, the interest is apparently there. While at Flint I was absolutely overwelmed by the number of Reatta owners who came along, looked my car over and said the same words "that's exactly what I wanted to do with my Reatta". The opinion seems to be pretty universal, horse power is front and center, sporty appearance probably next, sporty handling-tires/ wheels/ suspension and lastly manual tranny interest. I'm out of the main stream obviously, live in the BOONIES of Canada so, other then this medium don't get much opportunity to mix with those of like interest.

What's the Grand Plan?

I'll copy this over to the Reatta Div. Discussion Board and would ask anyone interested in commenting, make thir Posting on the Reatta Board.

Thanks

[Gene Brink]

Greg,

Believe you would be able to enter in the class/division you want and stick with your buds but would pay the price (if you are being judged) in deductions for the non-stock modifications. Perhaps a small price to be with friends?

[Guest Greg Ross]

They came up with so many deducts in Flint I think I ended up negative 400. Should hav asked for a copy of the judges' sheets! It would be nice to pick up a trophy when judged by and amongst your piers though!

[The Old Guy]

The modified division will have their own judging standards. The BCA judges with a 400 point system, and I believe the Reatta division has their own system. The Modified division will have it's first organizational meeting at Batavia, so if you have any input, check with the registration desk for the time and place. Modified Buicks with engines other than Buick will be judged, but will recieve a deduction for a "non buick engine"

[Turbo Loyd]

[color:\\"blue\\"]Being a heavily modified Turbo Regal owner who has been attending BCA events for a few years now, I've concluded the mainstream BCA will never embrace modified cars, and may at best tolerate them. Purity of the restoration is the charter of the club, and the points system is a reflection of the attitude.

It took me a long time to appreciate this, but after several sessions of heated arguments over the something as simple as the color of a fuel line in a stock restoration (debate was the line installed after the engine was painted or painted the same color as the engine). The purists did not like my response that it should be stainless steel since it looks better and should stay that way.

Great club a lot of great guys and where else can you go to events and not get lost in the sea of Chevys, but there definitely is baggage. In the early 90s Shari and I took our Grand National to a Chicagoland BCA car show and we were all but ignored as if we came in a Japanese car. We parked in the guest area and interestingly enough when we were on the other side of the lot a gaggle of the BCA folks went to look at the Turbo Regal, but would not talk to us.

Now at least most members talk to us and are friendly so we have come a long way.

Obviously performance modifications are here to stay and the BPG or GSCA are other all Buick clubs you may chose to participate in if the ?baggage? turns out to be more than you can tolerate.

[The Old Guy]

The BCA has made GREAT strides in accepting modified Buicks! The GS club was started 20 years ago,because the GS was looked on as just another "A" body. There have been modified Buicks coming to the national meet for some time now, but thanks to Keith Horsfall and a dedicated group of members that have "modified" Buicks, we now have some recognition and stature within the BCA. I personally will be bringing a "modified" and welcome the chance to join others of the same persuasion!

[Smartin]

I'll be in the modified class this year at Batavia. I had too many deductions last year...even though I scored 356. If I had a correct interior, stock manifolds, and a painted intake, I would've scored a solid Silver.

Do I care? A little, but not to the point I'm going to change it. I'll see how the modified class goes thsi year...and if I don't like it, I'll be back in the standard judged classes in Rochester.

[Guest karlde]

My father restored 3 cars while I was at home and another after I left. Guess that is where I got the bug. He never put anything on his cars that wasn?t either available when the car was new or manufactured before the car came out and would fit one of his cars. We had so many trophies it was ridiculous. Dad didn?t even know what to do with them.

My 64 Skylark (see my post in Me and My Buicks) is restored to the best of my ability, but I took off the original front brakes and put on discs. This is a safety thing for me. I put on Cragar SS mags, first because I aways wanted a set and they look good. They may be OK since they are made like the ones sold in the 60s. The worst thing I did was take out the (rusted) heater and put in Old Air A/C and heat. That is because I live in Texas and want to drive it in summer.

Winning a trophy is the furthest thing from my mind. The experience of the restore, the excitement of driving the car, seeing the people on the street look and wave, going to meets and seeing the other cars is why I?m doing it. I think the ones that are perfect are great and I like to look, but I?ll never have one. Like to drive ?em too much.

[Guest Greg Ross]

Karl,

My experience is much like yours, I'm creeping up on 300,000 miles on my little two seater and drive it because I like to. From my perspective the car lacked power, 150 factory rated hp with brakes to match. I've done up both and a 5-Spd. and, and, and. I had the benifit of an acquaintance met on the Reatta Discussion Board who gave of his own free time to support and advise. He's a former automotive engineer, did the necessary reprogramming of the ECM to make my alterations work. That sort of fraternity is what is so great about this Hobby. I took this car to Flint Mi. for the 100th, there were over 90 Reattas turn up for the Saturday display(maybe 40 for Judging), probably more of these cars then was ever gathered together anywhere ever before. The response from other Reatta owners just blew me away. Said consistantly, "that's exactly what they wanted to do with their car. Nice experience to have your work/ hobby admired and validated.

I guess what I've been promoting is meant for others to have the opportunity to have access to folks who have done or want to modify their cars, but to do that within the Reatta group of owners that they are naturally drawn to. The mouthpiece for the Reatta Div. (a BCA Director) doesn't approve, not suprised!

[jscheib]

Reading through these threads quickly, it would appear there is some interest in a Modified Division for Reattas separate from others, but the other years/models might expect the same. It seems the modified division in Batavia will bring some interesting discussions. There is quite some difference between a modified Reatta and a '30s coupe wityh a late model Buick engine and modern drive train.

John

John

[The Old Guy]

It seems to me that if the 400 point system is set up so every thing not original is a point off, the modified division should judge that every thing that it changed is a point for! That would mean that the Buick with the most modifications (that are well done) would be the winner.

[Buck 39]

Sound like I won't be taking my 39'/Mod.46 to any BCA shows. I just bought it from a gentleman in Washington(St.), it has been stored for 37yrs. In the late 50's a SB Chevy 283 was installed with a Saginaw 3speed, cutout headers, black & white tuck/roll interior, Corvette instruments and Olds. steering columm. The car is 100% rust free and very cool. I'm new to the BCA and have not joined yet, but it sounds like they don't appriciate customized Buicks. Are there custom classes? With the numbers of these old Buicks getting smaller and smaller anyone who keeps one on the road, no matter how modified, should be recognized.

[The Old Guy]

Buick 1939,

My 37 is also a coupe and I plan on taking it to Batavia. It sounds to me like you have found a VERY interesting street rod from the 60s, and I would love to see it

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It seems to me that if the 400 point system is set up so every thing not original is a point off, the modified division should judge that every thing that it changed is a point for! That would mean that the Buick with the most modifications (that are well done) would be the winner. </div></div>

Joe,

I almost always agree with you, but I have to take exception to this one. If we're looking for the most modified car to win, it'll turn into another "open checkbook" class, and there will be no fun in participating.

How about this idea? Each car owner must submit a list, at registration time, specifying all modifications made to the vehicle. When the vehicle is judged, all items on the list are judged by the judges opinion as to how well the modification was performed. Yes, being subjective, this can open a can of worms because we all have different opinions, but lets just say we'll trust the judges to know what it takes to make difficult mods and they can ask the owner to explain why something was done to clarify the point of the modification. The rest of the vehicle is judged as if it were stock. This way a car with 5 nice mods intended for touring purposes can still compete with an all out modified race car on a somewhat even basis.

I'd rather see credit for workmanship and effort rewarded more than just a point for every mod. If you change a color of a firewall from satin black to gloss black because you think it looks more presentable under the hood, it's stated as such on the list. Every little detail of the mods is on the list. If a modification from stock is not on the list, then the judging is it's treated as stock, it's not correct, and points are lost. This way the mods are acknowledged, and the quality of the mods is the detrmining factor, not the number of the mods.

Imagine of we count mods only and add a point for each mod...an "art car" would be a shoe in to win, and none of us want to see that happen, do we?

[The Old Guy]

Dan, that does sound sensible. I am not too involved with judging of any kind, so I really am not up on what we should do. I always felt that any kind of judging was too limiting. You are caught between the people that know and the ones that THINK they do. I haven't had a car judged in years, and find it gives me much more time to visit. I am bringing my modified Buick to support the class, but i don't think it will be judged.