Guest loc8tr Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Hi, Im a newbie here and to the Buick line. I recently found a 63 Wildcat and it is a factory 4 speed car, but someone stole the tranny years and years ago. The current owner was going to "fixer up someday" but I think I have talked him into selling. I was wondering how many stick cats were produced in 63, and what for trans needs to go in it. Also what the car would be worth once its brought back to "show quality" status. Would it hurt the value to replace the 4 bbl with an original 2x4 set up?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_65gs76limited Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 i don't know than it would hurt the value, you could never claim an original car due to the fact that a 2x4 set up was only offered 64 thru 66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64wildcat Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 63/64 cats with manual trans are very rare. as far as the dual quad set up , they are expensive and in my opinion don't add to much off the line. Once these cars get some distance however the dual quad set up does pull away. Re sale wise the dual quad set up is sought after . to keep stay single 4bbl carter. for resale go dual quad. I am 2.5 yrs into a body off / 64 wildcat cpe 425 single 4bbl, good luck they are great cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 2 cents worthThe 63 Wildcat with a 4 speed manual transmission (typically the T10 Borg Warner) is extremely rare and desirable for a small cadre of Wildcat and Buick Performance fans who seek the rare and unusual cars. Like the Olds Starfires that were built with four speeds, people will come out of the woodwork and pay ungodly sums for these cars especially if they ca be documented or are obviously original. Now, Pontiacs of the same era are valuable as four speeds too but they made 10 times more (well probably more like 200 times more) 4 speed cars in the Catalinas, Grand Prix, and even Bonneville as Bunkie Knudsen and his men sought a "performance" image for Pontiac.In the 64 catalog for Buick, at least, there is a picture of a man next to the 2x4 motor and 4 speed setup smoking a cigarette and looking very confident so it was publicized. However, for Olds and Buick it was a nuisance to throw a manual transmission car in on the assembly line with what was basically an auto transmission vehicles. I don't think they were designed to be manuals. Fully and correctly restored, you should be able to get a manual transmission geek to part with $16,000 to $30,000 on your car depending on correctness and quality of work.I would stay away from the 2x4 setup as mentioned, it was NOT offered until 1964. If it offered a true performance enhancement - maybe but 1. every ebay seller thinks he has the "last" 2x4 set up and bye gawd - yer going to pay me $$$$$ for it or else your life won't be worth living and 2. it only adds a modicum of performance gain - much of which can be retrieved using the "stealth" approach internally. There are upgrade cams that add 10-25 hp and you can tweak the ports for greater flow on Nailheads and add 10hp. You can bore the 401 out to 410 to 425 cubic inches and add 5hp so incrementally you can have a 350 horsepower motor that will smoke tires and launch hard. Also - don't forget to check your rear axle ratio, and is it a posi? Wildcats had a numerically higher ratio then LeSabres anyway but a four speed car may have had an optional ratio even higher. I hope this information helps in your decision. In any case, these cars are very rare and for Buick history reasons, need to be preserved by someone - probably with deeper pockets then I have.ThanksBryan MoranBCA 28571Owner 1972 Buick Centurion convertibleFormally owned - 1961 Electra 2 door hardtop1964 Buick Riviera1964 Buick Electra 2x4 425 convertible1964 Buick Electra convertible1964 Buick LeSabre convertible1964 Buick Riviera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 "manual transmission geek"THATS ME!!! Restoring a 65 Wildcat Deluxe 4-speed convertibleStoring a 65 Wildcat Custom coupe 4-speed 425 dual quadModifying a 65 Wildcat custom coupe auto to 5-speed stick 425 dual quad or Q-jetOh my geeking wallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 I knew you were out there. I'd be a geek too if I could afford it. There seems to be more 65's with manuals then 63-64 and I have never heard of a 66 big car manual.Good night nowBryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Hey Bryan-There were more 64's than 65's, 600(something) compared to 466 4-speeds in '65. In 66 the 4-speed was not offered but there were a few 3-speed column shift jobs built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrg50 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 To find out more about your car, you might want to contact the Sloam Museum in Flint, Mi. ....sloan@flintcultural.orgYou have a rare car. In the 63 Lesabre line there were only 344 4-speeds built total. I imagine in the Wildcat series there were a few more, but not many. After 40 plus years there are not many left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Buick Archive Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Hi- your 1963 4 speed Wildcat is indeed a very rare vehicle. Buick built 346 4 speed equipped Wildcats (that's all models of the 1963 Wildcat series) during the 1963 model year. Production figures for the individual models within the Wildcat series were not retained. These 4 speeds were installed only at Flint during 1963 and the 346 vehicles represented 3.1% of all Flint production that year. They represented .9% of all 1963 Buick production. Good luck with what sounds like a fun car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These 4 speeds were installed only at Flint during 1963 and the 346 vehicles represented 3.1% of all Flint production that year. They represented .9% of all 1963 Buick production. </div></div>These percentages cannot possibly be correct if we are talking about all of Flint's 1963 model year production and all of Buick's 1963 model year production. It appears to me that the figures you've provided must be percentages of 1963 <span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat</span> series production in Flint and total 1963 <span style="font-style: italic">Wildcat</span> series production for all assembly plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Buick Archive Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Hi Brian- You are absolutely correct. Good catch! These percentages apply to Flint's 1963 total Wildcat production and to Buick's total 1963 Wildcat production. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 I have a 1963 4 speed Wildcat in excellent condition. It has ~100k original miles, and has been stored in an insulated garage since 1985 (garaged all of its life). It was completely untouched until my dear brother over-revved the engine, but we rebuilt it factory stock (except same brother painted the dang engine block Ford red while I was at work, but I plan to repaint it back to the original color). I bought it from the original owner in 1983. My mom has come across some financial hard times, and we are considering selling it and giving her the proceeds (after all, it's been sitting in HER garage since 1985!).Back in 1983, I was told by someone at Kenne Bell that this sounded like one of five rumored "special option" cars which had a higher performance 401 and the 4-speed. He said that none of the five had ever turned up. Is there any truth to this? What is this thing worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Michael, it's always fun to hear about one of these 4-speed Wildcats.Do you know what was supposed to be unique about the five "special option" cars? I have not heard of this before. Do you recall why KenneBell thought that your car might be one of these five?We would like to learn more about your car. Any photos that you can attach here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Centurion,I can't remember all the details. I think I described the engine air cleaner insignia (Wildcat 445), the fact that it had a B-W T10, and that it was otherwise a "minimal option" car.The original owner told me that it was a special order high-performance version and extremely rare. He bought it new from Braley & Graham Buick, and said that a friend in GM had helped him get the car. He passed away shortly after selling me the car (he had cancer, and apparently knew his time was short when he offered to sell it to me). I later met a friend's father who worked at Braley & Graham at the time (he was the parts or service manager IIRC), and he specifically remembered the car coming in, and told me about the "one of five" as well. He told me that my car did not exist in terms of price book options. I will see if I can look him up, and see if he remembers any details (though he would be very old if he is still around).I will have to see if I have any hard copy photos I can scan in. The car is sitting under a car cover in mom's garage, with lots of stuff blocking it in the garage. I _Think_ I remember pulling the battery out about 10 years ago. About that time, I remember seeing that the headliner was sagging down (presumably the glue was deteriorating). I used to fire it up about twice a year and bring it up to full operating temperature. Eventually I sprayed the cylinders with a rust preventative and drained the fuel from the carb. Hopefully the years have been good to her, sleeping under that "blanket". If we do decide to sell it, I'll have to take a few farewell cruises with my 2-year-old, if I can figure out a way to fasten in her car seat!Regards,Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Michael, was this the Braley & Graham Buick in Portland, Oregon, or the one in Sacramento, California?Michael, I have received an e-mail from a friend who is not registered on this forum but is knowledgeable about the 4-speed Wildcats. He would like to talk directly with you. Will you please e-mail me your e-mail address? I can be contacted at brianl@americanconstco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Cool car, can't wait to see some pics. Does it have the horseshoe shaped shifter, bucket seats and console? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Attached is an interior picture. I would post more if I could figure out how to post more than one. The photo shows the interior and shifter. Don?t worry, the aftermarket oil pressure gauge is put on with double-sided tape (no holes drilled).It turns out that my mom put a battery in it about 3 years ago, planning to put it on ebay (I had already told her she could sell it if she needed money). Apparently it threw an alternator belt right after firing it up, and she never finished messing with it.The car is sitting on radials on later model rally wheels (taken from a later Buick my brother wrecked), but the original wheels and hubcaps are in excellent shape. The ?Wildcat 445? air cleaner cover (it?s more substantial than a decal) had separated from the air cleaner lid (needs to be re-glued).Thanks and regards,Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 One more pic, this time of the whole car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 And a pic of the air cleaner "cover". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 And a pic of the engine (needed to crop excessively to get it down to the 100k limit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Michael, that's a great-looking Wildcat! Thanks for posting these photos. I don't recall having seen that very unique air cleaner cover design before. Interestingly, I looked at a '63 Wildcat coupe in this exact color combination years ago in Bellingham, Washington. I was foolish to pass it up. The person who bought it promptly wrecked it. That one had a white painted roof, but there is another very nice one in Anacortes, Washington that has the white vinyl roof. Looks like yours has the vinyl roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Brian,Yes, it is a vinyl roof. I am not sure if the original owner had it replaced when he had the car repainted, but it still appears to be in very good condition. The paint is starting to bubble in some small spots along the trim at the edge of the vinyl top (rust under the paint). I wonder if that's why he had it repainted? It looks like it is not too serious at this point.Regards,Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I love that picture of the shifter-those are so cool. I have a dream that I can customize my 65 automatic console and shifter to mimic that look with the 5-speed tremec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Brink Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 See what you mean about the engine color, Michael. Still a nailhead but alas Ford red... Common problem on the aircleaner. I've not had a Wildcat that it happened to but more than one LeSabre. Glue seemed to be good for a few years and then turned loose of the aluminum used for the trim. Had good luck using silicone on mine - only problem was having to hold in place overnight so it would cure properly (newspaper on floor, air cleaner lid on newspaper followed by a few books [usually history text books as I was not reading them anyways ] - bottom to top) and all was okay.Good luck with the 'cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I would put this car on ebay with a reserve. The reserve would be set high enough to "probably" not get met. That way, you can entertain more legitimate offers after the uaction closes. Make sure you have a lot of high quality photos, and I would overdescribe it - as much information as you can. A lot of auctions only have one or 2 lines of information. Not enough. Good luck selling. Bryan Morancrazy4abby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Burk Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hey there,I use to have a friend that was in to 63 and 64 Wildcats. He would be a good guy to call. Matt Menges 316 263 6949He's done a lot of research on these cars, and knows more then anyone I know.Back in the day, I found two of his cars for him. A 63 Lesabre 2dr HT benchseat 4 speed car. I was talking crap about how 4 speed 63s and 64s were not hard to find, and he challenged me... so I found the lesabre when I lived in Colorado ( I should have bought it myself, it was a steal at $ 1500.00 )... we even drove it around the day we got it home.. it ran perfect.. In the process, I also found a dual 4 64 Wildcat 2dr that he still has. Currently, he's restoring a 64 Wildcat dual 4 4 speed car he found in Arizona.....He's had to replace everything, but when it's done, it's going to be nice. It's a bolt by bolt frame of re-body resto.....Anyway, I'd give Matt a call..... He may want to buy it from you.....By the way, I'm looking for anyone with a 58 Limited 2dr,Conv, or 4dr for sale in decent restorable shape...... Also, a friend is looking for a 59 Electra 225 Convertible bucket seat car..... Cya,Ryanryanp@cniemail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Ryan, Matt is aware of this thread! If you see any '65 4-speed Wildcats, let me know. I have not seen too many lately. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Burk Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Very cool..... I just thought I'd throw his name out there.I forgot to mention I'm looking for a nice 65 Electra Conv also.Thanks,Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Baysinger Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I really like the red paint color? Is it the correct red for '63. If it is, I'd like to know if it's the Burgundy or Granada Red? From the picture, I'd guess Granada Red. If you can email me more photo's of your car, I'd sure appreciate it. I'm thinking my '63 Electra is going to be one of the two original reds. email pat6801@yahoo.comThanksPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loc8tor Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 It has been along time since I checked this post. Thanks so much for all the help!! I have added some pics to my website if you guys would like to see the Wildcat. Time hasnt been real kind to her, but I still feel shes worth saving!http://members.tripod.com/pontiaclocatorThanks Again, the car is for sale as Im trying to buy my house, delivery is possible, 717-749-3502 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MichaelPliska Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Just re-hijacking this post, I just found out that my brother has the Wildcat on ebay right now, and it has just passed the $14000 reserve. If anyone wants it for just over $14k, the auction ends in 2 hours!Buick: eBay Motors (item 220680061171 end time Oct-14-10 14:51:36 PDT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loc8tr Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Just wanted to let everyone know the car was sold and as far as I know is in process of restoration back to its former glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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