Michael J. Graham Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I recently saw a Z1 module kit for Reatta/Rivera claiming 22HP gain. Anyone out there have any experience with or knowledge about this item?Tks,Mike [color:\\"red\\"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 22 horsepower for $25..sounds to good to be true huh??notice their guarantee is not for performance gain, but that no one with a simular product will out perform there product...i wouldnt waste the $25. this reminds me of the k&n filter advertising.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 What is it supposed to be? Do you have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Link to Z1 on eBay Might be worth a try if you have an extra 25 bucks that you won't miss and you realize you won't actually see a 22hp increase. I'd be happy with a 5-10hp increase for that money though.Let us know if you try it and how it works.Anyone know if there is any risk to trying this product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Well it looks like I am the one that feels like wasting money. I'll keep you posted on how well it works... or doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 NO, send me the $25, and ill send you a special ball bearing that you drop in your gas tank, and i'll guarantee youll get more horsepower than any other ball bearing..as much as you want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Yeah....Did you miss the fact that I do not care?I did a search of past posts and I do not believe anyone here has tried this, so I will be the Guinea Pig that loses the money. Could be an expensive resister or it could be something more advanced.I just think it is something someone should test out. I will keep you all posted on how it works and what I find out about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I would be happy with the dyno base HP of 218 at 6100 rpm who needs the full 235.4HP.Beats my Reatta, Betsy Blue too probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 the problem with these gimmicks is that after spending the money and time on the install, your "butt dyno" is geared up for sencing something....something thats not really there..i have read soo many testamonials on the k&n filter, expounding the increased power...but when a real side by side dyno is run, theres no diffenence..and this is how they make money.....its fraud, but nobody calls them on it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Post deleted by Prix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Well, I'd be interested in where the four fat (or skinny if the module is really small) wires connect. Given that the limitation on the "C" motor is related to a really ded cam and other flow limiters, am not certain what electronics are going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrallen Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 I could swear someone bought one of these or something like it on Ebay and all it turned out to be was a 69 cent resistor and didn't do jack. I'm sure it is somewhere in the data base but maybe not under that name. Wasn't it P. T. Barnum that said there is a sucker born every minute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 You calling me a sucker? Can you read? Do you understand english? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I recently saw a Z1 module kit for Reatta/Rivera claiming 22HP gain. Anyone out there have any experience with or knowledge about this item? </div></div> I'll let you know soon.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'd be interested in where the four fat (or skinny if the module is really small) wires connect </div></div> I also am interested, I'll give you all the details.I'm sorry to anyone that needs 25 bucks more then I do. If anyone else would like to take some shots at me email me at bob@reattas.com if you want leave your phone number and I will even call you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 HEY, CALM DOWN, no one is angry at YOU...its just that its highly unlikly this thingis gona work..but, there is a simular item that does work on suzuki motorcyles, there high performance ones. suzuki retarded the timming(in the computer),this was done in the 1st 3 gears..some one figured out how to "unretard" the timing using a simular device. it works cause i have one in my bike..that said, spend away, and report back..if you could, go to a drag strip and give before and after results...i personally dont beleive anyones "butt dyno"..goood luck, and i hope it does work, cause ill be the 2nd person buying one of them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimustanguitar Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 most performance chips just make your injectors dump more gas down the intake so that the gasoline that is not able to burn because the mixture is too rich cools the engine on the intake side, and if you remember from physics class, the temperature difference between the intake and exhause of the engine is how you can determine its efficiency in an ideal world. so basically by doing this kind of mod, you lose gas mileage and gain a little torque. you can get about the same gains from using a water injector kit, which you can make yourself, or you can inject rubbing alcohol instead of water because it cools better and is combustible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Thanks for the link. It does seem like snake oil to me too, but hey, it isn't a lot of money to waste, if that's what it turns out to be. I am trying to figure out how they turned an engine like ours that tight? If mine was able to rev that high, it might actually produce similar horsepower. Our engines produce their peak torque around 2000 rpm, so I cannot figure out how the torque peak could change so radically? Ours runs out of wind around 4500 rpm due to the cam and air flow characteristics. I see the bidding is also closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Flash Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well it looks like I am the one that feels like wasting money. I'll keep you posted on how well it works... or doesn't </div></div>Prix......I support your right to spend your money any way you want. The fact that it is a research project or possibly the uncovering of a fraudulent claim, might be deductable under certain circumstances.....or at least qualify for government funding (Municipal, State or Federal).Whether it was college tuition, research books, stock selection, marriage, or internet access, my education has always been a "pay to learn" endeaver. Enjoy.I have certainly spent more than 25 dollars on beverages that once consumed had a retention period of less than 30 minutes. The knowledge you will gain from this purchase will last a lot longer.Flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrallen Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 My sincere apology for my post which you took umbrage to where I quoted P. T. Barnum. That said, you might want to check a past post by ****** titled "Ebay 20hp+ part warning." posted 6-28-03. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally888 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Well let's see: You live in Minn! You own a Buick Reatta! You buy junk on Ebay! Need I say more! Of course just kidding. I own 2 Reattas (have owned 6), live in Ga. and have been burned on Ebay several times. Just couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The Text of the PROMO quotes 13 to 22.5 HP Gain, they say the module is unique to every model of car yet the 22 hp quote is the same across the board! There is no substitute for horse power but the unfortunate reality is there is no magic pill. To make HP you need improvements in all areas, tickling the electronic inputs to fool the ECM is just that. I would expect there will be some downside to this meddling with engine control data. From what I have seen the ECM in our Reattas is a fine piece of engineering, with its Block Learn capability economy and performance are as good as they are going to get until you start opening up intake and exhaust, improved manifolds, cam etc, etc. The beauty of it is, within reason, the ECM will tolerate these enhancements and learn to manage them-Smart Car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrog Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 ok, I have to chime in on this one. I am getting to love these arguments. At school, we sometimes endeavor to make people cry at the dyno. As a flat rate tech, I didn't have the time. On that note, I expect some arguing over my opinion. I'll start with the fact I have no idea what the "z1" kit, or whatever it is, even does, but I have a couple of good guesses based on what I've heard so far. I am intentionally not going to find out till I state my opinion. I've heard the term 'resistor' pop up a couple of times, so I am assuming this is a device to alter the air/fuel ratio by tricking the computer. Anyone heard of stoichiometry? The ideal stoichiometric ratio for emmissions and driveability is 14.7 to 1. Notice I didn't say power. Truth is, you can gain power by changing that ratio to 12.5 to 1. I.E., richen the mixture a bit. A little ignition timing increase will assist. Why don't they run that ratio from the factory you ask? Excessive emmission output, mainly CO. Also, the overly rich mixture has the negative effect of increasing friction between the piston and cylinder wall, reducing longevity. Ever wonder why modern feul injected engines last so long? In the 70's, you couldn't GIVE away a car that had over 100,000 miles. My Grand Prix has 175k, my Reatta 155k. Both blow clean on the breathalizer. There are a few ways to alter this ratio, and there are mixed results. I can think of ,oh say 3, ways to modify the a/f ratio on this engine using a resistor from radio shack. I'm just sitting down writing, don't make me research this just yet. 1. The ecm will make a decision on how much fuel to inject initially based on the maf reading. Use a resistor to modify this reading. The ecm reads the frequncy of the maf, so it will require more than just a resistor, but they do make tunable modules to modify this signal. Downside, very dangerous. Requires accurate adjustment, may burn up engine parts or clog catylitic converters. 2. tps(throttle position sensor). fuel decision is also based on tps. easy to modify this signal, make the ecm think the car is at wide open throttle(wot) when it is really only 60%. I have also seen these gadgets out there. They will give increased power between 60-99% throttle. makes no difference at idle or wot. Gives the ass-onomoter a hp increase. 3. O2 sensor. after the ecm injects the fuel based on internal calculations, it checks the O2 sensor to see what happened. Is it rich or lean? the ecm will modify it's calculations next time around. modify this signal to change a/f ratios also. The maf and O2 signals have to be modified together or the ecm will 'map' around the modifications, or just disconnect the battery and it will forget it's map everytime you want to drive the car. Or, you could just re-write the software. Anyhoo, had to jump in there. It's my job now.... I ask of you don't take any part of this out of context. Don't read one sentence and write back 2 pages about one misspelled word. I've done 15 years and 3, oops 4 beers worth of research on this reply. Maybe I mis-spoke somewhere, I'm not going to proofread. Remember, this is for fun!!!!! Let's enjoy the forum. I congradulate whoever it was that decided it was worth the 25 dollar education for the rest of us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrog Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 oh yeah,almost forgot to add on about the k&n thing... Yes, they do flow more air. IF the installer actually reads the directions. A k&n recharge kit will probably recharge 20 times. Most users get about 5 recharges. Get the picture? Take a dry cloth and cover your mouth and runaround the block. Now take a wet cloth over your mouth and run around the block. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrog Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 ok, I'm really glad I wrote my reply before seeing the ad. Doesn't say what it does. At all. Appears to be a snake oil ad, but probably works in some fashion. Not neccesarily permanantly or safe or emmission compliant, but IF the dyno test is set up properly(i.e., staged) it will PROBABLY do as stated. It's actually not hard to modify a dyno curve 20 hp. Bag of ice on the intake manifold anyone? I will stick with my previous 3 geusses/opinions. But it's still fun to contemplate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Is funny that all of these gadgets tout HP when the "Power Enrichment" mode of the 3800 is already a good match to the intake, cam, etc.If you want "more power" you are going to have to add mechanicals, the easiest being Nitrous (and dangerous in your living room).OTOH where the "C" is not "all it can be" is in efficiency - 30-35 mpg is common on the newer 3800s and with more bulk to pull around. Part of this is more precise sensors e.g. dual three-wire O2 sensors.As Greg mentioned, stoch is at about 14.7:1 however engines can run even leaner, say to 17:1 but the timing must be adjusted to match and the EGT is going to go up. Too lean and you burn valves and pistons (this is part of the reason supercharged engines use different materials).Why doesn't the factory run leaner ? Well for one thing stoch depends on the fuel. For an alky engine it will be a lot closer to 11:1. Since the engine might be running on Gasahol (and the engine cannot tell) the engineers had to select a crossover point suitable for anything the engine might encounter without impacting warrenty claims.Also where PE is a momentary phenomena except on a race track (where the warrenty is void), economy cruise is something that the cruise control may maintain for hours on end. And on the gripping hand we have CAFE but that is an artificial cycle exhausting into a big baggie.So in the end the bean counters win again and while the 3800 Reatta is capable of 30-35 mpg or more at level cruise, most settle for 20-25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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