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Engine dating..........Transmission dating

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How do I tell what year an engine is? Where are the numbers on the block?

What do the numbers mean? I just bought a supposed 1940 block (complete engine) and need to comfirm it is one.

I also got what looks like an overdrive transmision and would like to figure out the year on it as well.

Thanks, you guys are great.

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Dave, you can't easily tell one year V-12 from another, the only tip-offs are the accessorys, and a few strange anomally's like 5EH starters, right guys?? Even the judges in car shows will accept any V-12 in a Lincoln, as long as all the accessorys are year-correct, if you have an overdrive transmission, they are available only in 1941-'48 Lincolns, and the '41 will have 26 teeth on the front gear of the cluster gear, whereas the others all have 25, hope that helps,here is a picture of a overedrive transmission I sold recently, Rolf

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Oh yes, almost forgot, the VIN of the car the transmission was originally in, is stamped in the boss above the clutch inspection plate, tell us the number that appears there, and we will be able to tell you the year of the transmission, they do get mixed up, this one I sold was out of a '41 Continental convertible, but the transmission case had a 1942 number on it, and 25 tooth gears, go figure?? Rolf

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Just up the side of the block from the oil pan mounting face, there are some bulges, maybe water passage bulges. The bulges are bigger on 42-48 blocks. You would have to have two blocks side by side to see what I mean. Inside the block, the 42-48 engine crankshafts have a larger diameter rod journal (see the parts book for the 86H rods and the 26H rods). 1940-41 has the three bolt carb mount on the intake, post-war had the four bolt intakes, but so did all the replacements so that is not a very good indicator. I am unsure about 1942 intakes. The 1942 and early 1946 blocks had slightly larger bore, 2 15/16 I think as opposed to 2 7/8. What else?

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Thanks

Does this mean all three carb bolt intakes are pre war???

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I am tiring of this discussion, all V12 blocks were the same basic casting, the only differences listed in the parts book is the different bore sizes, and internal changes for hydralic valve lifters between '36-'37, and '38 and '39 having 96H dwsignation, the earlier's HB, then 06H for '40 and '41, 26H for '42, but used in early '46's, as they were left over after the war, so some '46's had them, then a 26HB, that was used from '46-'48 with the 2 7/8 bore, the 2 carburetor manifold you are fortunate enough to have is a rare aftermarket item produced by a number of speed equipment companies, it should have a manufactuers name, like Edelbrock, Almquist, etc etc, stamped on it somewhere, Lincoln never made one for the V-12, and I am unsure if any were made before the war, so your maanifold is definitely a post war speed equipment item, meant to use the late postwar 4 bolt mounting carburetors, which did not have script, tell him about your 2 jugger Jack whew, I am going to go have a drink, Rolf

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My edelbrock dual intake takes the 3 bolt carbs not the 4 bolt carbs.

I was asking if all the stock intakes with 3 bolt carb plates are pre-war.

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"so your maanifold is definitely a post war speed equipment item, meant to use the late postwar 4 bolt mounting carburetors" Rolf

Ah contrare (sp) Rolf. I as recently as four weeks ago held a dual carb aftermarket aluminum intake in the very hands that type this message and it was set up for two each three bolt base carberators. Dave grin.gif

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Well live and learn, I had never heard of any prewar 3 bolt base 2 juggers, but I was only 7 years old then, and didn't know a Lincoln Zephyr from a tinkertoy, and Vic Edelbrock I thought was not much older than me, but he must have knew what was happening, even if I didn't, or he made 3 holers after the war, as well as 4 holers, who knows, anyone?? Rolf

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Hey chaps, I find this correspondence fascinating, so please keep it up. To Rolf, if you really are "tiring of this discussion" don't read it. To JWalker (new member) thanks for these observations which I have never seen noted elsewhere. All blocks may be basically similar, but it is these details which I want to know about. And to everyone, does a twin carb manifold make much difference to a stock engine?, are they difficult to set up?, and if they are really good yet rare, would there be interest in getting together and having a small batch made? There have been several manufacturers, so the tooling must exist for one of them, surely.

Mike

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That sounds like a good idea Mike, I will contact my friend Brian in New Zealand, and see if he can sound out the very famous Hogan down there about making a run of multi carb manifolds, probally would be pretty expensive, if there ever was an engine that can utilise them our V-12's are it, really enhances performance, especially at the high end, would anyone on here be interested in such a venture, either for just wanting a manifold, or perhaps investing or participating in getting them made?? Rolf

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Guest imported_V12Bill

On tear down the bore of 36 - 39 engines is 2 3/4 " the 40 - 41 is 2 7/8" as is the mid 46 - 48 engines. 42 - early 46 had 2 l5/l6" bore. If an engine has 2 7/8" bore and the smaller size rod journal on the crankshaft it is probably a 40 or 41 engine. All intake manifolds from 36 to 41 were three bolt, but they were also dated by month, day and year.

Bill

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I retired from the Army and I know they lack the intelligence and I have yet to find a Jumbo shimp so along this logic I would have to say niether. But I would have to say it is in the same category, oxy-moronic. tongue.gif

I just finished my column with M.A. and am now back to freelance. But Sad to say my next article is on a Mustang.

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Love to know more. I love to write, just don't enough about anything to write about! I'm a frustrated novel writer with no ideas or knowledge. confused.gif

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This is outside the realm of cars but you can ghost write my vampyre novel I have no time for.

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Ihave been watching the discussion about the h series V-12 and how to date an engine. You will all be surprised to learn that there were at least 11 different blocks from l1936 to 48. I have had experience for fifty years and know these erngines in my sleep The 36 engine had 2-3/4 bore soolid valve push rods lifters in non ford parlance. The front motor mounts were attached to bolted on brackets to the engine The oil pan h3eld six qts oil. All the later engines held 5.. The 37 block was anew casting,with an improved oil pump,stronger connecting rods,different oil pan,steel bladed fan as opposed to aluminum blades. 1938 brought yet another block,which was set up for hydraulic push rods.Since there now had to be high and low pressure lubrication system there were new oil galleries incorporated. The oil cleaner, which was first offered in ln 1937 as standard equipment, had its return directly to the oil pan. In mid 38 the block was once again modified to allow the return to the left hydraulic lifter gallery. Thus,later 38 blocks and all thereafter have three ports at the bell housing,where as all earlier blocks have only two. One is normally plugged and was used at the factory for test running. 39 blocks were only modified sligshtly in the water passages. In 1940 a new block was introduced with a 2-7/8 bore. These were not over bored 1939 blocks. At the bottom of each block where the oil pan bolts on are plugged holes which were used to remove the casting sand. On all blocks through 40 there are three to a side, 3/4" diameter. In l941 a seventh was added adjacent the oil pump. The diameter was increase to 15/16". In 42 two new blocks were introduced , one for the standard transmission and one for the newly introduced Liquimatic Drive, which required al longer bell housing. Ihave seen only one of these. they are quite rare. Contrary to popular myth the 42 block was not an overbored 41 block. All standard blocks have a cylinder wall thickness of approximately 5/16" 42 was noexception. Early 46 blocks continued the 2-15/16" bore but with yet another new casting, the difference being the two center core plug holes were increased to 1-1/8". As someone noted on this site the larger core plug can be been clearly seen by the larger bulge compared to the front and rear bulges. In mid 46 the bore was returned to2-7/8" with only al loss of only 5 HP by modifying the cylinderhead. These heads have part # 6H-6049-50. These blocks can easily be identified by the letters 56H cast on the bellhousing. As for cylinder heads, from l936 to 40 all heads were aluminum, without exception . 41 were nearly all aluminum, but for the first time an optional iron head was offered, part # l6H-6049-50. These wwe

.were painted aluminum and like the 40-41 heads had "Zephyr"cast in them usually at the rear,although some replacement aluminum heads have Zephyr under the part number at the front 42 heads have 26H 6049 (rt side) or 26H-6050 left. Continentals and Customs were polished aluminum (despite what the authenticity manual says. Zephyrs used cast iron, probably painted aluminum. All 1946-48 were Cast iron. painted Lincoln green. As for intake manifolds, there were at least ten different versiions, basicaly one for each year although 38 had two as did 41 and 42. 42 was continued into 46-48 except for the automatic choke version, All manifolds were aluminum set up for two barrel carburetor. All two carburetor versions are aftermarket. Manifolds for Continentals and Customs were also polished. I hope this clears up some confusion. I am not very computer literate, so this is abit of an effort.

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Dear Zephyrparts,THANKS for all the particulars.As for your computer skills they are FINE,ITS the 1 finger typing skills we BOTH have to work on.diz laugh.gif

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Good info George, thanks a lot, I too always thought '42's were just overbored '41's, as a friend of mine who used to build hot-rod 12's finally got hold of a '42 block, and as he neared the early ford size of 3 1/16, it fell through too, so we made another assumption that '42's came from the factory with your first rebuild already installed, a little LZ humor, Rolf

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Your the man George, Good work!!! I'll save this info. for my next V-12 if I re-work it, OR if someone wants an early V-12, I have one that can be re-build.

E-mail me if you want more info. cool.gif

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I am a mopar lover too. having a 69 charger and a 70 440 6 pac challenger, love the speed and drive them all the time. The edelbrock intake 2x2 for the V12 from what I was told from a represenitive from edelbrock was first made in 1946 and set up for the 97s. thats all the information I could find out. Speedway motors makes adaptors so you can run 4 bolt base carbs, thats what I am running on my car. I just sold a complete V12 motor to a car trader. if you need his# write me. he is in calif. though. If you need a cam reground for hot rodding I have contact info for Harvey Crane who will do whatever you like to the cam.

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