6 volt +ground to 12 volt -ground conversion

[Jack Bennett]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:55 PM, 37_Roadmaster_C said:

@Jack Bennett,  That rig looks GREAT. Do what YOU want and enjoy your ride!  I just don't know about those WW tires.....they seem to clash with the green spokes..... kidding 😇.

Believe it or not, I ran a thread for a while on the AACA forum asking for opinions regarding putting whitewalls on a antique car.

The responses was so nearly equally divided between “yes” and “no”, that I had to improvise another method to determine whether the white or black side went outside.

For nearly a month I put the whitewall out on the left front and the white wall out on the left rear.

Then I put a black wall out on the right front and a black wall out on the right rear.

Being a guy who works most daylight hours on my old cars, I take breaks while working on one to contemplate the work I’ve done, and the work I need to do on the other cars.

In the case of the Fargo, and the whitewall caper, I would take my MGD break contemplating the appearance of the wheels and at the months end had a fairly resolute idea regarding the positioning of the whitewalls vs the black walls on the truck.

The beautiful thing about working on these old machines is that they are not judgmental, and usually go along with whatever I decide to do. And anything I do today, and discover tomorrow that I don’t like it, I simply take it back apart and redo it to my satisfaction.

I put the whitewalls outside because I plan on doing the undercarriage and wheel wells in no gloss black, and I think the whitewalls sets off the contrast necessary to make the spoked wheels stand out.

But, once I get the truck mobile again I may turn all the black walls out, and contemplate them for another month or two.

And, in preparation for this task I have stocked the garage reefer with a good supply of MGD, and strategically placed the piece of firewood I use for a seat in a position where I can sit and evaluate whether or not I want to reverse the tires again.

The truck has two wells, one on each fender, for spare tires. I will eventually obtain a couple of 18” tires with rims, and see how they accentuate the wheels on the truck, and maybe even the spare tires will be whitewallls.

Jack

 

Edited July 17 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Geeze Jack,

That doesn't even look close to the same truck that we talked about way back when.

Good on ya, maybe we will see it at Good Guys one of these years.

 

I will be there in Puyallup in a couple of weeks by the way. We camp in the RV lot across the street from the roller coaster.

 

I am sure that most of you reading this know that the Good Guys events are for those "modified" cars. Usually insanely modified with endless wallets.

HOWEVER, they welcome pretty much all cars that meet the age rules.

 

Two years ago, I got to park the PA in an almost endless row of 32 Fords. (the class is called "Deuce Doins").
Not one of those Ford guys complained about being outclassed, LOL. Maybe that was because I declined judging.

Last year it was the 28 Dodge and is the one I am bringing this year as well.

Look me up if you get over that way.

[Jack Bennett]

Thanks for the compliment on the truck.

At my salary, when I retired the 2nd time, if I was paid a equivalent amount for the hours I put into the truck, it would be designated a national treasure.

The good guys car show starts on the 26th of July, and, if I can find someone to go with me, I’ll probably be there.

I live in Lakewood, a block from Steilacoom, and near the JBLewis back gate.

If you have a chance stop by and I’ll buy you and yours a dinner.

Jack

[JACK M]

That is a good offer, I might have to consider.

I will be driving up Tuesday evening in an effort to get good RV spaces Wednesday (7/23) am. No reserved or saving spaces, so we try to coordinate early. We stay in the RV camp across the street from the roller coaster. Those sites on the fairgrounds side of the road are a bit wild for us old guys.

We spend pretty much all day Wednesday getting settled and catching up with each other.

I meet up with a buddy from Federal Way and another from Seaside OR That morning. It's mostly just the guys, but an occasional wife or girlfriend may show up.

I would love to visit and see that Fargo in person. Maybe on Sunday on my way out if I don't see you sooner.

Is there room for a 36ft motor home with a 26ft trailer? I am about as long as a semi.

 

Here is another idea, we all pile into one vehicle on Thursday for the poker run, never sure where we will end up after. But the last stop is always Griots. Someone saw an article in the tribune about that bar on South Tacoma way that is shaped like a teapot. We have all driven by it but have never stopped in, so we may see about a late lunch there. None of these places are very far from Joint base. And my friend out of Federal way is familiar with your neighborhood.

I am going to PM you my cell number. Don't be shy.

 

Any others of you reading this, don't hesitate to look me up. I have provided my camping location, and that rat rod is quite visible. The other cars with me are a red and white 57 Ford 2 door wagon, and a 31 Dodge painted flat black. We tend to hang out in Sillyville during open hours when we can find parking there. Will be parked in "Home Built Heaven" on Saturday.

Edited July 17 by JACK M (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

9 minutes ago, JACK M said:

And my friend out of Federal way is familiar with your neighborhood.

Here is a former Federal Way car that I had brought to New York about 15 years ago. It belonged to Mr. Albertson of Havre, MT prior to that. Then I tracked it back to Steve Giles in Hollywood. The guitar player?

 

One of you from up that way might remember it. The car is all warm and cozy in a Jaguar collection in the wilds of western NY now.

[Jack Bennett]

21 hours ago, JACK M said:

Geeze Jack,

That doesn't even look close to the same truck that we talked about way back when.

Good on ya, maybe we will see it at Good Guys one of these years.

 

I will be there in Puyallup in a couple of weeks by the way. We camp in the RV lot across the street from the roller coaster.

 

I am sure that most of you reading this know that the Good Guys events are for those "modified" cars. Usually insanely modified with endless wallets.

HOWEVER, they welcome pretty much all cars that meet the age rules.

 

Two years ago, I got to park the PA in an almost endless row of 32 Fords. (the class is called "Deuce Doins").
Not one of those Ford guys complained about being outclassed, LOL. Maybe that was because I declined judging.

Last year it was the 28 Dodge and is the one I am bringing this year as well.

Look me up if you get over that way.

A tad off topic, but as I have said, “it is my thread, in the “General Discussion” topics, and I am neither discussing a banned topic, inciting a riot or stepping on some one else’s thread.

On the topic of “modified cars”……..I can easily identify the first photo of a car you posted as a “antique”, beautifully “restored” and faithfully preserving the artistic qualities and design innovations the folks who built it decades ago wanted me to see in 2024 as well as 1929. 
The 2nd photo is of a equally beautiful car that shows appreciation for the qualities I have mentioned above, and increases, exponentially, the use of these qualities to include the advancement of technologies, dynamics of power production and transmission, artistic abilities in incorporating these qualities into a single production, and adding the fingerprints of the artist.

I too appreciate the machines, may it be the addition of a “walking foot” to my 1989 vintage sewing machine or a thing called a “three point PTO to a antique tractor design to facilitate use of more accessories and ease the labor required to change them.

But, a part of my high school education included 4 hours a day in a program of instruction designed to give us the ability to knowledgeably select a vocation which could be used without incurring a huge debt or entailed sitting behind a desk.

The instructors were both our teacher as well as mentor, and premise of all instruction, may it have been operating a metal brake to make ducts or gutters or laying the camshaft in a V-8 engine we had rebuilt, the emphasis was on us, and not the size of the instructors reproduction organs.

After a engine was completed, the chassis renewed and the bad electrics replaced, it became our personal project (I done a 1947 Chevy Fleetline and a 1941 Dodge coupe), to either complete as a daily driver or, as I did with the Chevy, add a 455 cubic inch engine, four speed gear box, quick change differential, a 4” top chop and a 7” channel to the rocker panels.

The car was left in grey primer, but the wheels were done in white, with huge cone hubcaps, it was raked to a height of inches clearance from the pavement and “Hookers” were added to the engine, “Lakers” was hung under the running boards and “2 1/2” straight “scavengers” were added with a choke pull cutout to switch between them and the Lakers. Going to add here that I have worked at a full time job since I was 14 years old, and was building  lawnmowers and bicycles for resale since I was 12 years old. 
What part of the money, numbered in one’s, rather than thousands or millions of dollars, went to buy school books, buy a nickel burrito for lunch, pay for materials we used in our art class and used to pay the few cents bus fare to get to a job before I built my first car.

And our cars were a direct representation of us, mirrored our personalities, openly flaunted our skills in mechanics, metal work, showed off our ability to shoot a sixteen layer candy coat, metal flake, paint job while instilling the restraint and maturity needed to make a decision to buy a new set of springs to change distributor dynamics or overhaul a poor performing carburetor, or cross the border, hire a woman, drink some tequila and do some drugs.

And, they were our “chick” magnets, and the girls paid much more attention to the way my Hookers sounded or my cam job made the engine rock, than the way I put on (had I ever owned one) my ear ring or held a crack pipe.

And we learned a thing called temperance, tolerance and teamwork, and today, probably 67 years later, I still consider it both rude and totally out of order to make a comment, on a open discussion format, less than 20 minutes after it was posted, a rebuttal post, which violates forum rules to the max, is totally off topic, and made for the sole purpose of hanging a ball hammock out to air, in a very public place where others have came for no purpose other than relaxing and talking to others with like interests in old machinery.

My age is increasingly realized physically as it manifests itself into joint pain, dimmed hearing, vision and reaction speeds. And, it is felt in the diminished level of temperance, tolerance and teamwork we, as a society, employs to make it through what can be a major effort to make it through a day, with some semblance of normalcy wirhout the brain pain of stubbing our toes on the over-stuffed ego of a poor boy who fell into wealth but can’t accept the idea they deserve it.

Jack

Edited July 17 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JACK M]

27 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Here is a former Federal Way car that I had brought to New York about 15 years ago. It belonged to Mr. Albertson of Havre, MT prior to that. Then I tracked it back to Steve Giles in Hollywood. The guitar player?

 

One of you from up that way might remember it. The car is all warm and cozy in a Jaguar collection in the wilds of western NY now.

Cant say I recall it, but I may have stumbled across it at some point.

[Jack Bennett]

54 minutes ago, JACK M said:

That is a good offer, I might have to consider.

I will be driving up Tuesday evening in an effort to get good RV spaces Wednesday (7/23) am. No reserved or saving spaces, so we try to coordinate early. We stay in the RV camp across the street from the roller coaster. Those sites on the fairgrounds side of the road are a bit wild for us old guys.

We spend pretty much all day Wednesday getting settled and catching up with each other.

I meet up with a buddy from Federal Way and another from Seaside OR That morning. It's mostly just the guys, but an occasional wife or girlfriend may show up.

I would love to visit and see that Fargo in person. Maybe on Sunday on my way out if I don't see you sooner.

Is there room for a 36ft motor home with a 26ft trailer? I am about as long as a semi.

 

Here is another idea, we all pile into one vehicle on Thursday for the poker run, never sure where we will end up after. But the last stop is always Griots. Someone saw an article in the tribune about that bar on South Tacoma way that is shaped like a teapot. We have all driven by it but have never stopped in, so we may see about a late lunch there. None of these places are very far from Joint base. And my friend out of Federal way is familiar with your neighborhood.

I am going to PM you my cell number. Don't be shy.

 

Any others of you reading this, don't hesitate to look me up. I have provided my camping location, and that rat rod is quite visible. The other cars with me are a red and white 57 Ford 2 door wagon, and a 31 Dodge painted flat black. We tend to hang out in Sillyville during open hours when we can find parking there. Will be parked in "Home Built Heaven" on Saturday.

Sorry to say the “teapot” has given up its existence to some other business, I believe to be a used car lot.

But there are still some good places to eat and hang out in Tacoma, and I might recommend the “Harvest Buffet” on S. 38th Street if you like a wide assortment of ethnic foods and a good variety in the way they are prepared.

The number of casinos we now have in spitting distance of downtown Tacoma is mind numbing, and all you have to do is fall forward, and you’ll land in the door of one.

I will PM you my phone number, and the location of my home is on Google, Skype, Facebook, Twitter, and probably the top secret files in both the White House and the Pentagon.

Be warned though that I may be of a different genera than what you may find “acceptable”.

Sometime ago I parted from the world which required I bow and Kowtow to another person just because they were born with money, raised to be influential, and would fall flat on their face if they ever lost the power of daddy to keep them in power.

I am a retired Army Sergeant Major, with years of service as a First Sergeant, I put nearly 20 years in a medium custody prison, and, as staff, considered myself head and shoulders above the best inmate in being devious and playing games.

I have made up my mind to go to the car show in Puyallup because, when my wife died, I picked up the old car habit as a source of a identity, and a way of meeting people outside the bingo halls and lodge room of my fraternity.

This being the ideal opportunity……I’d like to meet your friend from Federal Way……and passing it up may be the equivalent of a criminal act.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

Oh Wow………just “Oh wow”………!
What with the propensity of today’s law enforcement to actively seek out older fellows like me…….too dumb to fight charges, and money to pay exorbitant fines….rather than deal with a real criminal, which may hurt them, I’d better start paying more attention to what I say, and how I say it, when making a on-line post.

I just made a lengthy rant, and, upon reading it I found a few words that neither Google or Siri understand, and accordingly, use “spell check” to automatically “correct”.

Thence, I need to correct the correction to allay any misunderstanding that I am a prime candidate for the “Strange Addictions” program or should be made a life time resident of some institution housing incurable sex offenders.

1. “Hooker” headers is a brand name of a exhaust system used, normally to get the full advantage of a engine which has had the valves and valve ports “relieved” to reduce back pressure and increase horsepower. And, no, they have nothing to do with how a pimp may “pimp out” his ride to enhance recruitment of potential customers.

2. “Lakers” are a brand of muffler that is usually mounted under a set of convenience accessories we called “running boards”. In my particular case, used Lakers, along with our straight exhaust pipes, to allow compliance with noise abatement laws, which even as teenagers we respected. So, when I, at 80 years old use the nomen “Lakers” I am not inciting a argument regarding the love or hate of a professional basket ball team from Los Angeles.

3. “Rake” a car meant to cut the front springs (remember we had a solid front axle and coil springs) to make the front of the car extremely low, and we “popped” the shackles of the rear springs to raise the rear of the car to a exaggerated height. This was done for a few reasons that the owners of a car today just wouldn’t understand. First, it looked cool and was a much easier way to imply that you had a powerful engine transplant under the hood than it was to actually install one. Secondly, our Saturday nights was spent on the main strip through downtown Phoenix, Arizona for the purpose of both showing off our cars as well as orchestrated drag races during which we tested and improved upon our automotive mechanics skills. We drove our cars as daily drivers and depended on them for transport to school as well as a tool in which we united as friends and peers. Considering this, the lengthy hood of my old Chevy would raise the front wheels well clear of the ground when I threw some torque to the 455 cubic inch engine. There was no such thing as the fancy set of wheels hung on the rear of modern day dragsters to limit the amount they could rise, and driving blind is no way to win a race. Also, the pipes I mention below are vented, through a control valve, which is also connected to the exhaust manifold/laker mufflers, and ran unobstructed to where they ended a few feet behind…and well below, the rear axle. We added a “rake” to the car because, otherwise our straight pipes would drag as the front of the car lifted…….and again…..it looked cool.

Raking” vs the spell check change to “Raping” just says a lot about the mindset of a sixteen year old boy in 1959 vs a sixteen year old boy, “hooked” on cyber steroids in 2024.

3. “Scavengers” or fabricated straight exhaust pipes were usually made from two lengths of 2 1/2” galvanized pipe which were called “Scavengerswhich in todays way of usage, would imply that they scavenged something, and in this case, it was engine heat and combustion gasses which would be trapped in the engine when back pressure was created within the restriction of a muffler. As a part of our high school venue, we learned to use a machine lathe, and porting the size of inlet passages and relieving the back pressure of exhaust passages is a wasted effort if the increase of combustibles and exhaust of expended fuel is not considered during engine construction. Some chose to add a super charger or a blower, and present day engines use a turbo-charger to accomplish the same thing. But, to my knowledge, in 1959 a “turbo-charger was a exotic device found on a airplane engine, and looking under the hood of a sixteen year old kid’s car was far beyond being foolish.

4. “Chopped and Channeled”…….and, even though these two words may be better associated with Hannibal Lector than a 1947 Chevy Fleetline. But,  in 1959 they were pretty common words among us kids which would rather get greasy than we would running a 10,000 yard touchdown in a fancy silk jersey. The older, speaking of 1940’s and early 1950’s cars were purposefully built to be tall and wide. This was no problem unless tall was translated as “fat”, fat was translated as “heavy” and that could be translated as rolling resistance as well as wind resistance…..and it just wasn’t “cool”. So we “chopped” the frames of the window and door frames to allow lowering the roof to a ridiculously low height.  Make the cars seem larger and taller, the height of the passenger cabin was increased, and the term bathtub or shoe box was applied, and stuck to many of the early 1950’s cars. To remedy this, and make the cars more aerodynamic and sexy we took some metal from the rocker panels and reduced the height of the cars body by lowering the upper part of the body to a lower level in relation to (yep, all cars had them) the frame. Applying this to my 47 Chevy made its total height, when sitting at rest, a slight amount higher than the chest of a stunted growth sixteen year old…….and added tons to the sex appeal of a old Chevy car which was born with a tiny six cylinder engine and a mushy three on the tree transmission.

5. “Da Go’ed” In 1959 it was totally permissible, and usually required by dad’s and the coach, that  their kids apply wisdom, patience, and respect when addressing people of color, culture and ethnic backgrounds. In Phoenix, Arizona, in 1959, any person making a stupid, or not factually based, race related, comment had better have some fighting gloves handy. In other words, it just wasn’t tolerated and, were you the recipient of the derogatory remark, and I was witness to it being made, and I stood idly by and ignored it, I was considered as guilty as the one who’d made it. And, should word leaked back to dad, or overheard by the coach, that I failed to correct (whip the butt) of the offending clown. A great majority of rhe population of Phoenix is Mexican……..not “Hispanic or Latino’s” since we didn’t even have the words then. So, when you Googled the word “DaGo” you came up with the cyber explanation, in the 2024 mentality, that this was a derogatory term used in allusion to a person of Hispanic heritage. 
This lengthy post…….any you were perfectly free to scroll by it in the beginning, or simply close it out at any time during its lengthy read…….is to instill a knowledge of what our cars was in the 1950’s as related to their plastic, eco-friendly Counterparts we don’t even have verbiage to describe in the 20th century.

Anyway, back to “Da-Go” and how it differs from the 1959 meaning, and the way it was interpreted, and the politically correct, and irreversibly slandered meaning you believed it meant when you read it……..Da-Go’ed” was the way we described a car that was over-done…..not done in a vulture or inflammatory way, simply had a lot of accessories and, perhaps a paint job which we didn’t fully understand. But we learned……and included in this education learned that those who brought the culture and skills of the Mesoamerican culture to the USA, and are very uniquely different from those we learn during the routine education given a American student.

The cars they done were “tricked” out to include colorful, rather than pure black or white, paint jobs, often applied with taste and skill. The upholstery of the cars they done paid as much attention to the white leather tuck and roll upholstery as we paid to our Holly two barrel carbs or Cobra high rise manifolds. And they shined……so when we included these upgrades to our cars we said they were being “DaGo’ed” and it was a way we had to compliment our Mexican friends on accepting their way of personalizing their cars to make ours better too.

 

 

 

Edited July 17 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

And, in the vein of modding a car, which is has been declared, through neglect and abandonment, to be operationally, financially, and aesthetically dead, over scrapping the car, adding to our growing pile of cast off’s or buying it back in the form of a Chinese Air Fryer next year or “modding” it with affordable and obtainable parts to restore it to a life of service…..and, hopefully, a source of pleasure, I offer the following:

Today, falling between Monday and Sunday, is among any of the six others I consider a “day off” from my old car mentoring.

Accordingly, I am watching the thought evoking convention on television, and a thought was (understandably) evoked. 
A fly (I suppose) accidentally and (hopefully) not on purpose, flew into my cup of steaming hot, and unbelievably delicious cappuccino.

I was waiting for the cappuccino to cool enough to savor its smooth taste and relish the pleasure I would get as it settled into my anxiously awaiting stomach.

My knee jerk impulse was to show my disgust by having a uninvited, and certainly unexpected, and now half boiled fly drop into my cup of cappuccino and quickly dump the fly, and my cup of cappuccino down the drain and brew another cup.

Then I recalled that this was the last cappuccino fixings I had in the house, and the local 7-11 neither sold cappuccino fixings, or at least anything less than a ready made cup of cappuccino.

I was in the midst of a parody. Did I dump out the cup of cappuccino I had so  lovingly prepared and had readied my taste buds to savor, dump it, and the offending fly out and buy a 7-11 cappuccino, and force it down regardless of its vile taste, or just dump the cappuccino and watch the convention without drinking anything.

And then it occurred to me that I wanted the cappuccino, I just didn’t want the fly in my cappuccino. The cappuccino was a whole universe and the fly wasn’t even a grain of sand on the beach. And, even though the fly had simmered in my cup long enough to be considered a part of my cappuccino, removing it would in on way change the way my cappuccino tasted.

I did not go looking for a reprobate 1929 Fargo panel truck. Nor, did I even actively look for the Model T or Model A truck I hoped to buy for my next project.

The second I moved the Fargo from the dark garage, and exposed it to light, I realized I had bought something that could tax my skills, patience, billfold and even health for a period much more involved and time consuming than should be allotted to any hobby.

At that moment I realized that I had bought a cup of flies in a container which may have once been a delightful drink of cappuccino.

It occurred to me that this truck may be the only truck of this kind and the only one of this sort that some people will see for the entire period of their lives. It was not the fault of the truck it had became a swarm of flies, and had lost any semblance to the truck itself, the people who used it, and most poignant, the era in which its existence and contribution was so important.

So, with time, effort and some resources the flies are being shooed away from, what was a 1929 Fargo Express panel, but now a recovering chassis, a poorly painted body, and the engine and transmission from a victimized 1950 Dodge pilot house pickup, and a drive shaft, fabricated from one salvaged from a 1920 something DeSoto and some other truck which name will remain a mystery forever.

The missing master cylinder, and the reminder that the 23” dodge pickup engine, which replaced the (people) destroyed and abandoned) 25” engine necessitated fabrication of a clutch, brake and accelerator pedals to accommodate the floor boards of the Fargo and relocation due to the new orientation of the bell housing and attached pedals.

Lots of flies remain, and, in a 95 year old truck will always remain, but a slight sniff of some sort of good stuff is making it increasingly more evident that, maybe not a pristine 1929 Fargo, but some truck which so closely resembles a 1929 Fargo wishes to emerge and tell folks “Here I am……and you can make, with a few changes, it too.

As time has progressed I still have no hopes of ever restoring the Fargo to the same truck which proudly hauled Federal and Kenworth truck parts for Roberts Motor Company in 1929, and one should never expect to look behind the Fargo radiator badge a find a huge 440 Magnum, nor, even a electronic ignition distributor or fuel injection. But, the absence of flies are to be noted when the truck pulls away and the little 1950’s engine can be heard singing (to those who would junk it) “Alive again, alive again, and worthy of my keep”.

Jack

 

 

[Grimy]

41 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

And then it occurred to me that I wanted the cappuccino, I just didn’t want the fly in my cappuccino. The cappuccino was a whole universe and the fly wasn’t even a grain of sand on the beach. And, even though the fly had simmered in my cup long enough to be considered a part of my cappuccino, removing it would in on way change the way my cappuccino tasted.

Damn, Jack, you're retired Army!  No need to overthink this--or even think about it at all!  Just pinch out the fly and savor the rest of your cappuccino.  The fly might even have added a soupcon of additional zest!

 

What a great parable as a lead-in!  Nicely stroked!

[Jack Bennett]

On 7/15/2024 at 11:21 AM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 I think, without actually deciding to, I have reached the place you mention in the last paragraph. 

 

  Ben

Hello Ben…….Today you are the winner because I have deleted a really long winded spiel, and will instead peruse the eBay and Amazon pages looking for a thing used to convert a manually operated, 6 volt, starter to a electrically operated solenoid, which can be activated by a key turn.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

Looking for another truck project to work on this winter.

The one I am looking at is advertised as a quick fix/ran when parked, and I think I can restore it to original (photo 1) by returning it to pristine condition by removing that vulgar right front tire (photo 2) which is giving me nightmares.

Seriously, after a bit of contemplation, a lot of procrastination and some rapidly offered condemnation, I have ordered parts to keep my Fargo as near original as possible while returning it to a fairly predictable state of operation.

My research, and the helpful forum member input, I have decided to stick with the 6 volt format. It is a given though that it would be a unforgivable mistake to replace the bad stomp starter with another stomp starter.

So I am hoping the tractor starter, and 6 volt solenoid, satisfies the need of the truck for a device to spin the flywheel and remind it what engine is supposed to do.

The starter and solenoid should be here, and installed by next Tuesday, and an update will follow shortly thereafter.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Jack, I sent you a PM.

18 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Looking for another truck project to work on this winter.

The one I am looking at is advertised as a quick fix/ran when parked, and I think I can restore it to original (photo 1) by returning it to pristine condition by removing that vulgar right front tire (photo 2) which is giving me nightmares.

Seriously, after a bit of contemplation, a lot of procrastination and some rapidly offered condemnation, I have ordered parts to keep my Fargo as near original as possible while returning it to a fairly predictable state of operation.

My research, and the helpful forum member input, I have decided to stick with the 6 volt format. It is a given though that it would be a unforgivable mistake to replace the bad stomp starter with another stomp starter.

So I am hoping the tractor starter, and 6 volt solenoid, satisfies the need of the truck for a device to spin the flywheel and remind it what engine is supposed to do.

The starter and solenoid should be here, and installed by next Tuesday, and an update will follow shortly thereafter.

 

 

 

 

Jack, I sent you a PM.

[Sidemount33]

On 7/15/2024 at 8:35 PM, Grimy said:

@Packard enthus. please lighten up on your daily airing of your superiority complex.  Had you paid attention over the past year or so, you would know that @Jack Bennett rescued his Fargo from a certain scrapyard fate, and I believe he will be the first to acknowledge that it was beyond "restoration" in the usual meaning of the word. 
 

He continues his Herculean attempts to make the vehicle (1) functional and (2) less crusty looking.  He clearly enjoys the problem solving and achievement-in-small-bites.  This is in the fine tradition of Depression and World War II saving of resources, and he is a model to us all (well, clearly not you).?

@Jack Bennett: You're doing yeoman service with this vehicle, Jack - it's great, and keep it up 👍.
 

You have a lot of supportive people on this forum, and the guys who like to post badly-written, brittle and (frankly) thoughtless replies to anyone....well, that's what the "ignore" function on here is for. 
 

@Grimy The only thing worse than people who feel compelled to preach their stupidly rigid dogma on cars are people who preach their stupidly rigid dogma about aircraft. Thankfully, this forum doesn't have to deal with that!

Edited July 20 by Sidemount33 (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, Sidemount33 said:

@Jack Bennett: You're doing yeoman service with this vehicle, Jack - it's great, and keep it up 👍.
 

You have a lot of supportive people on this forum, and the guys who like to post badly-written, brittle and (frankly) thoughtless replies to anyone....well, that's what the "ignore" function on here is for. 
 

@Grimy The only thing worse than people who feel compelled to preach their stupidly rigid dogma on cars are people who preach their stupidly rigid dogma about aircraft. Thankfully, this forum doesn't have to deal with that!

Hi Grimy……..It’s getting more difficult every day to leave the couch and go out to play with these old machines.

Yesterday it occurred to me that my cars, motor scooter and tractor are slightly more than junk when compared to the machines that have been professionally, and meticulously restored to better than new condition.

And, the only real value of my old toys are the same sort of return you’d expect from buying a RC model car or renting a plot to grow a vegetable garden.

With this in mind I have decided to arrange my collection of antiques around my property and allow them to rejoin nature while providing some eye appeal for the neighborhood kids.

I took the Willys out for a drive yesterday and both the carburetor and the water pump started leaking. And, after the tribulations I am experiencing with a relatively simple starter replacement on the Fargo, trying to find, and replace one on the Willys is unimaginable.

My Dodge mentor, Rodger (Dodger) Hartley has left the garage, as have most of those I share a age and era with, and with Roger’s departure, the 1923 Dodge Roadster he helped me on has lost a lot of its shine too.

Perhaps it is nearing the time when it is both appropriate, and wise for fellows like me to surrender the mechanics of moving metal to those better suited to calling a lowered Civic with a huge muffler or a Lexus with skinny tires a mechanical milestone in car art.

Driving them is fun and rewarding, and the hours spent restoring their ability to just move under their own power is priceless……but so is the cost of a new Willys water pump or a Northwestern Electric starter/generator combination for my old Dodge Brothers Roadster…..

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

22 hours ago, JACK M said:

Jack, I sent you a PM.

Jack, I sent you a PM.

And I sent you one back.

[Grimy]

27 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

Hi Grimy……..It’s getting more difficult every day to leave the couch and go out to play with these old machines.

Yesterday it occurred to me that my cars, motor scooter and tractor are slightly more than junk when compared to the machines that have been professionally, and meticulously restored to better than new condition.

And, the only real value of my old toys are the same sort of return you’d expect from buying a RC model car or renting a plot to grow a vegetable garden.

With this in mind I have decided to arrange my collection of antiques around my property and allow them to rejoin nature while providing some eye appeal for the neighborhood kids.

I took the Willys out for a drive yesterday and both the carburetor and the water pump started leaking. And, after the tribulations I am experiencing with a relatively simple starter replacement on the Fargo, trying to find, and replace one on the Willys is unimaginable.

My Dodge mentor, Rodger (Dodger) Hartley has left the garage, as have most of those I share a age and era with, and with Roger’s departure, the 1923 Dodge Roadster he helped me on has lost a lot of its shine too.

Perhaps it is nearing the time when it is both appropriate, and wise for fellows like me to surrender the mechanics of moving metal to those better suited to calling a lowered Civic with a huge muffler or a Lexus with skinny tires a mechanical milestone in car art.

Driving them is fun and rewarding, and the hours spent restoring their ability to just move under their own power is priceless……but so is the cost of a new Willys water pump or a Northwestern Electric starter/generator combination for my old Dodge Brothers Roadster…..

Jack

 

Jack, I'm about a year older than you and have been having much of the same experience.  I'm gonna have to get some help from a younger friend on a couple of things I could easily do my myself 10 years ago--even 5 years ago.  I agree that **driving** them is richly rewarding, but these darned old things have stuff go wrong and need repair.

 

Re the Willys:  Find someone who can rebuild the pump (if you think packing won't solve the issue) and just send it out.  Same on carb--check for stuck float and see if it's an easy fix, if not send it out.  I'm now figuring that if I can't repair suitably with x amount of time (say, 1-2 hrs for each of those you mentioned), I'm gonna send it out and limit myself to the R&R than than take on the brain surgery that used to be a no-brainer (to continue the metaphor).

 

I look at it from the standpoint that (1) if driving is really the rewarding part (it is!) then (2) to make them driveable I need to spend the $$ now so that (3) I can continue to drive as long as I have THAT capability.  We're at the point in our lives where we understand what needs to be done and used to be able to do it ourselves, but need some help in carrying out the necessary.

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, Grimy said:

.

Re the Willys:  Find someone who can rebuild the pump (if you think packing won't solve the issue) and just send it out.  Same on carb--check for stuck float and see if it's an easy fix, if not send it out.

Hi Grimy…….In the years I’ve involved myself with these old machines, the only time/thing I have paid someone to do for me is the brake linings on the Willys.

In high school, while some kids were playing their LP’s and going to sock -hops, I worked at two full time jobs, bought my own school books, and squandered the rest of my money on chrome coil covers and some hub caps for my car. And my rewards was hearing a engine that I had built from oil drain plug to the air filter wing nut come to life and chortle like a drunk kid who had just eat a pound of chocolate.

I used the example of the water pump on the Willys because it is typical of many parts used on our old cars. The last person who rebuilt them is long dead, and now, even obtaining a core is near impossible. The housing is made of cast iron which stresses, wears and cracks with time, and the rear bushing is held in place by two little pieces of metal not as wide as a middle finger. The only adjustment possible, after a new packing is installed in the front of the pump, is by turning a gland nut mounted around the shaft, and screwed into the front of the housing, tighter. A huge problem is that the nut can be tightened only so much before it presses the shaft rearward and breaks these two pieces of metal, leaving the rotor and rear of the shaft unsupported. The bushing is bronze and the housing is cast, and neither can be repaired once worn or broken.

Possibly, it would be less painful, both physically, as well as financially, to have your natural teeth replaced with some high-tech implants.

The cost is not as much concern as the crap I need to endure while running the gauntlet of crude, rude, and even down right psychotic people I encounter during a lengthy search for parts of this nature.

I will be redoing the carburetor over the next day or two, and I suppose a leaking water pump is better than a fan blade through a radiator core.

Its not all that bad though because I can still do it, and the end results today are as rewarding as they were when I was a sixteen year old kid.

Jack

Edited July 20 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Well, I now know that it is not good JuJu to park my Willys butt first down a steeply sloping driveway, and leave it for any length of time.

It appears that the carburetor needle valve is on the rear of the carburetor, and the fuel flow to the throat is from the front of the float chamber.

That, combined with a three pound pressure setting on the electric fuel pump means that the float chamber fills with gas, but due to the tilt of the car, it only fills the rear of the chamber before it closes the needle valve at this low setting on the fuel pressure regulator.

Murphy loves these old cars, and the Willys is a good hang out when he needs a bit of fun.

Usually, a cold start of the engine requires a full choke pull during start and a half choke immediately after start until the engine runs smooth.

Murphy, or the prankster side of my late wife loosened the anchor screw where the choke cable attaches to the carburetor, and let the cable casing slide, rather than the choke cable moving, and left the choke fully closed.That caused immediate flooding, but there was not enough gas because the fuel pump had reached max (3 PSI) pressure and had stopped pumping. So, flooding killed the engine, but fuel starvation stopped it from starting again.

I reset the fuel pressure to 7 PSI, retightened the choke cable anchor screw, and went for a nice Saturday afternoon drive.

Oh, the water pump……..one tour of duty I had while in the Army was advisor to a small militia group in the darkest part of the Congo. As a fact, it was so dark that I never even seen the militia I was supposed to advise. But, with an abundant amount of time to waste I made acquaintance with a Ubangi tribe witch doctor. I say “he”,since I never saw “him” either. Anyway he taught me an ancient, one prayer fits all, prayer. I have no idea what it is about, but I said it over the leaking water pump on Willy and, although the water did not stop instantly, it did change the water to wine, and I shared a glass with the cat while we both waited for the water pump to mend.

And mend it did, meaning the leak stopped post haste and in no time at all Willy and I were off to visit the cemetery.

And, that folks, is the latest true story directly from the Associated Press International, and you can take that to any bank which honors Monopoly money🤪.

Oh, a tiny tad of trivia……Summer Fest is in full swing in the local park, the photographer for the Steilacoom Historical Society refused to let me pass until he took a nice photo of me, Willy, and two ladies whom I was,assured was of good character and high morals. Of course, the second the photos were taken I absconded the area for fear someone would see me with the ladies, and tarnish my otherwise unsullied reputation.

Jack

[Grimy]

SEVEN psi on an updraft carb, and you wonder why the carb leaks????

[Jack Bennett]

Nope! I normally run it at about 3 PSI, but that wasn’t enough pressure to fill the float chamber because the rear of the carburetor was so low.

The “leak” was the gas which was pumped into the float chamber, but running out, at the rear, from under the top cover of the float chamber.

I upped the pressure to 7 PSI to give the pump the umpfh to pull the gas uphill from the tank, through the vacuum tank and get enough gas to the carb just to get the car back to level ground.

Once the car was back to street level I had to adjust the carburetor again and turn the fuel pump pressure regulator back to 3 PSI. 

I am not really sure what is going on with the water pump.

Last fall I put a new water cover on the engine and a new packing in the pump.

It was fine then, and the packing was bought from the WOKR store, so should have had enough oil in it to last the winter.

Like I said, even the core for these water pumps are the holy grail of old Willys parts, and years ago there was a guy who rebuilt the pumps from used cores but, has a good number of old car people, has long since died.

I am certain his hoard of Willys water pump repair parts are still somewhere, but they have been pulled from the market and one will have better luck looking in New Zealand or Australia for parts for these cars than within the USA.

I suspect though that all the water pump parts and core housings have been bought up by the professionals who deal parts from estate sales, barn finds, hoarders collections and sell them at premium dollar at places like Hershey.

Regardless, when I got the car back on level ground, tightened the water pump gland nut a couple of turns and said a non-denominational prayer, it stopped leaking.

I have went through a couple of electric (6 volt) fuel pumps on this car and have had a couple more pressure regulators go bad and start leaking.

So, I am not 100% sure the pump is still putting out at pressure, or, if it is, the pressure regulator is passing the fuel at the set pressure.

Anyway, who needs a wife, kids, cat, dog, some chickens and a milk cow if you own a old car?

Jack

Edited July 21 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

27 minutes ago, Grimy said:

SEVEN psi on an updraft carb, and you wonder why the carb leaks????

Did you see where the circle is completed which connects the Fargo truck I am working on and my Willys sleeve valve engine?

The Fargo appears to be a parts delivery truck for a business named “Roberts Motor Company””, and the dealer serviced Federal and Kenworth trucks.

So, it seems that the Fargo was used to haul engines and accessories for the Federal trucks, which used the same engine as my 1927 Willys Knight.

Isn’t it strange how time loops’ and the history of our old cars intertwines in the oddest of ways?

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:03 PM, Grimy said:

Damn, Jack, you're retired Army!  No need to overthink this--or even think about it at all!  Just pinch out the fly and savor the rest of your cappuccino.  The fly might even have added a soupcon of additional zest!

 

What a great parable as a lead-in!  Nicely stroked!

I see that you have a 1948 Willys Overland Jeepster. Always curious to learn about similarities between the years/.makes and models of the older cars, I tried to look up what engine came in the 1948 Willys Overland Jeepster.

Sad outcome though because it seems as though Dodge Brothers and Chrysler Corporation made the fingerprint of these vehicles as smudged as they have done to most others.

One source shows that one 1948 Jeepster has a 350 CI engine with a turbo 400 transmission. While I seriously doubt this is a valid pairing, I read on to find a 1963 Jeepster with a 230 CID engine, which can be Dodge, Plymouth, DeSoto, Chrysler, or one of any of the other millions of vehicles originally equipped with the flathead six cylinder mainstay of the Chrysler Corp cars.

Simce one starter motor recommended for replacement of the starter on my 1950 Dodge 218 CID engine is sold for a jeep, I have no difficulty believing the latter is correct, but the former sounds like someone nagled a engine exchange that may be considered as non-orthodox, at very least.

So, to cut through the smell, and get to the pile……..Does your Jeepster have a sleeve valve engine…….if not, what does it have?

Jack

 

[Grimy]

It has the L-head 4-cyl 134 cid engine of 63 bhp that was in WW2 Jeeps and started life in the 1927 Whippet.  Barney Roos, who also engineered for Locomobile and Pierce-Arrow, updated the engine in the late 1930s and went to insert bearings and other modern niceties.  More later, have some work to do on a rental.

[JACK M]

 

Was it not referred to as the "go Devil" motor?

I should remember that as it has not been all that long since I went thru one of those.

[Grimy]

4 minutes ago, JACK M said:

Was it not referred to as the "go Devil" motor?

I should remember that as it has not been all that long since I went thru one of those.

Yep. Mine moves along nicely despite 63 bhp due to 4.88 gears, but with a ~30% Borg Warner OD (standard on '48-'49, optional afterwards).  I don't want to cruise any faster than 55-60 in one of these anyway, due to brakes, suspension and the wind beating you to death.

 

By the way, I'm looking for a 1948-49 Jeepster (black face, square) speedometer, as pictured.

[JACK M]

Keeping my eye open for you.

1 minute ago, Grimy said:

 

By the way, I'm looking for a 1948-49 Jeepster (black face, square) speedometer, as pictured.

 

[60FlatTop]

Entertaining topic. I have been reading each sentence and absorbing the flavor of the whole thing.

 

I am reminded of an old friend of the family who grew up with my Dad. He used to reminisce where all the old guys go for coffee.

 

[Jack Bennett]

Woke up this morning and found my 1951 Plymouth Cambridge in the back yard hob-nobbing with my 1929 Fargo Express panel.

Just a tad worried, since they share some distant MOPAR DNA that I may have a little Farmouth or Plygo to deal with in the future.

On the starter dilemma…….I have explored the possibilities of getting the Autolite MCH 6106, stomp type starter, which was originally on the replacement engine, rebuilt at a cost of $300.00 to $????.??, changing the electrical system from 6 to 12 volts, or removing the generator installing a alternator, and buying a more modern, reduction gear type 12 volt starter, and using a solenoid/key start system, or buying a newMCH 6101 (6 volt) starter off eBay for $299.95 plus about $30.00 S&H, using a solenoid or floor push (electrical) switch, and leave the electrical system, including the generator 6 volts.

The vote is in and I ordered the new, not rebuilt, MCH 6101, 6 volt starter, a new solenoid and I also have a 1920’s vintage floor push (electric) starter switch.

This has been a really trying experience, but, after the starter is installed, the truck will be ready to leave the back yard, move to its new home in the garage, and work on its interior and upholstery will get under way.

And, most notably, it will start earning its keep with occasional drives and I can get the process for a bonded title started.

Jack

Edited July 26 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 7/22/2024 at 11:08 AM, 60FlatTop said:

Entertaining topic. I have been reading each sentence and absorbing the flavor of the whole thing.

 

I am reminded of an old friend of the family who grew up with my Dad. He used to reminisce where all the old guys go for coffee.

 

Hi 60FlatTop…….I am savoring the flavor of your post, and the shared photo, and I am not sure if the odd feeling I get in my stomach is from over eating a good meal or indigestion from eating……..well, you know.

I honestly, sincerely, truly and profoundly wish I could keep my mouth shut and leave the posting of stuff to forums, such as this, to the arm chair mechanics who would rather smell the sweet odor of cynicism than old oil, spilled gas and exhaust fumes from a 100 year old engine they had built from scratch.

I look at my hobby as a three part endeavor, and one part of it is learning more about the old machines I have fostered, and am nursing back to health.

The second part is integral with the first in that I spend time using my fingers to type, which keeps them busy and makes the pain of injuries and arthritis a bit more bearable, as well as providing a social outlet without having to listen to unwelcome, and totally unnecessary cynicism and contradictions.

The third part is spending time with my machines, appreciating the idea that I am still able to keep them alive, and relishing the idea that I know what a Stewart vacuum tank or Detroit Lubricator carburetor is, and am able, at 80 years of age, able to build a complete antique engine while my millennial counterparts don’t even know how to check the oil in their plastic machines.

I will leave the computer and take the 1923 Dodge Brothers roadster or my 1927 Willys Knight for a coastal drive this morning…….and will wave as I pass the barrooms and pool halls where some other 80 year olds go to gather moss, mildew and eventually just fester away.

There is absolutely no requirement, or even the expectation, that computer literacy, or the ability to connect a string of words together into a intelligible sentence, be possessed by a person who participates in the hobby of antique car restoration, but it sure helps after the sun sets, it’s raining and colder than heck, and it is time to share the days accomplishments with cyber friends……or, just stay grumpy and go to bed angry.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

On 7/22/2024 at 10:47 AM, JACK M said:

Keeping my eye open for you.

 

Hello Jack M.

Looks like won’t be making the car show this year.

Give me a call and I’ll buy you a cup of coffee or a meal.

Jack

Edited July 26 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

UPS came through and my new MCH 6101 starter was delivered today. 
I am in draw down from the old car obsession and am trying to catch up on taking care of the mowing, thatching, weeds and hedges.

But, holidays are few and far between, and arrival of this starter made calling in a brass band and having a fireworks display seem a small tribute.

So, the MCH 6106, stomp starter was replaced, post haste, with the new electric activated starter.

No apologies here because it worked absolutely great.

To keep the purists at arms length, I will install the new starter with a floor stomp, electrical switch to make it appear that I have bowed to criticism and kept the truck “original”.

Of course, it came “original” with a electrically activated starter, but since both the ignition switch and the floorboards was missing from the truck, I have no idea which way the starter was activated and, in this case, I wish some well intended purist would tell me what I need to know to keep it “original”.

Anyway, the stage is set for cutting and installing the new floor boards, and the floor mounted starter button already has a spot reserved on them.

Jack

 

Edited July 27 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Most probably the Fargo will be my last dedicated antique car project for years to come. This need not be translated to mean that I am putting away the hobby of tinkering with old machines, it simply means that I will not purposefully buy another old machine project which will require 100% of my attention.

I ran a thread for a while asking “How many antique car projects was too many antique car projects”, and I have concluded that this question is self resolving.

Summer is upon us here in Washington State, and now is the time to flex those 4” wide tires, work out the bugs in that fuel enhancement adjustment and polish the rust off those huge brake drums.

And, I can happily say that I have had the chance to put each of my old cars back to work as well as spend a few scary minutes on my old Cushman motor scooter.

The water pump and the oil pressure gauge on the Dodge developed leaks, and it took some real nagling to convince the Steward Vacuum tank it could handle gas without gagging and spitting it back out the vent tube.

The Plymouth was a bit hesitant to start, but it is normal for it to be a tad lazy, and it takes a fully charged battery to feed it enough energy to wake it up. So, a little priming of the carburetor, a topper charge on the battery, and some carefully chosen profanity got it moving, again. And move it did…..joyfully and gracefully, in its own waddling way, until the ignition system began acting in its normal 1951 Plymouth fashion, the distributor points failed, and a couple days was spent replacing those.

The Willys is a rock, and without any question is the cornerstone of my little antique machine collection. However, it too needed a bit of TLC to get the carburetor to stop leaking and some touchy-feely with the electric fuel pump pressure regulator to get it thrumming again like a well oiled sleeve valve engine should.

It took a tad of fuel system maintenance, primarily cleaning out the settling bulb sediments, to get the Cushman putting and popping only as a 4 horsepower Cushman “Husky” engine can do. Of course, an octogenarian riding a 73 year old motor scooter draws some very questionable looks…..like “WTH is that”? so I limit my rides to short ones, and confine my adventures to the quiet back roads.

Now….. my take away on the Fargo…….

The MCH 6101 starter solved my foot stomp dilemma, and today I should be able to Finnish up the new floorboards in the truck.

If you recall, the much smaller floor space in the Fargo, as compared to that in the 1951, B2B Dodge Pilot House pickup, from which I got the replacement engine, caused some problems in locating a stomp type floor starter.

The engine came equipped with a Autolite MCH 6106 starter which has a manual switch mounted on top of it and uses a lever operated bendix to engage the starter drive with the flywheel.

I have received nothing but negative feedback from Advance Auto, O’Reilly’s, NAPA, Auto-Plus, and a whole mess of other CAR PARTS retailers regarding this problem, and there is no doubt remaining in my mind that they don’t know a darn thing about CAR PARTS. Either that or they just don’t care.

I ordered a new MCH 6101 starter from eBay, and it works great. But, I have became aware, after being fed a ration of crap by the local starter rebuilders about the scarcity of these starters, and the difficulty in rebuilding them, that I need to make those who are experiencing this same problem aware rhat the whole “scarce” thing is a crock of crap.

I now believe that the MCH 6106 starter is a dual purpose starter, and when it has the foot switch, activation lever and bendix attached, it is a stomp type, floor mounted starter intended for use with a truck.

However, the starter also has a worm drive starter gear return ALREADY installed, and I believe the MCH 6106 starter will work as a electrically switched starter simply by removing the bendix lever and forks and changing the activation switch from the top of the starter to a remote switch located on the dash panel or a electric switch mounted elsewhere on the floor boards.

In conclusion, I will have to ponder all the words I normally use to describe incompetent, ignorant, inefficient, unhelpful, arrogant and complacent people who are masquerading as car parts clerks before I come up with a new one which aptly describes the ineptitude of those manning the cash register in the stores which used to specialize in car parts.

Jack

 

Edited July 28 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[JACK M]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:24 AM, Jack Bennett said:

Hello Jack M.

Looks like won’t be making the car show this year.

Give me a call and I’ll buy you a cup of coffee or a meal.

Jack

Sorry I missed you Jack.

Had alot of fun up there, but glad to be home now.

[Jack Bennett]

12 minutes ago, JACK M said:

Sorry I missed you Jack.

Had alot of fun up there, but glad to be home now.

🫡 I’m super glad to hear this. The offer for a meal or just coffee still stands if you are in the neighborhood.

Jack

[JACK M]

1 minute ago, Jack Bennett said:

🫡 I’m super glad to hear this. The offer for a meal or just coffee still stands if you are in the neighborhood.

Jack

👍

[Packard enthus.]

On 7/15/2024 at 5:35 PM, Grimy said:

@Packard enthus. please lighten up on your daily airing of your superiority complex. ..........P.S.  Your Cadillac Hydramatic has a 1:1 final drive ratio so it is not "effectively...an overdrive."  Despite your protestations that Authenticity Must Be Obeyed, you apparently like SOME modifications because your Packard 12 does not have its factory 4.69 gears--and someone has said you have an Oldsmobile differential in that Packard.  Care to comment on that from your perspective that All Modifications Are Anathema?

 

====================================================================

 

Your post is in error in most respects.

 

First of all,  I do not air my superiority in here EVERY day.  I don't have to.   My dog knows the truth about my wonderfulness, so bragging about it in this site occurs, rarely, more than once a week.

 

Secondly,  who told you my "Packard Twelve had factory 4.69 gears"?   Obviously, not someone versed in Packards. True,  a ratio that low could be special ordered, but most Packard Twelves, including mine,  came from the factory with 4:41's.  How do we know that?  If the tranny is authentic and unmolested, there is a brass tag on the back-up light switch housing that makes it clear.

 

Thirdly, who told you I am against "all modifications" and think they are anathema"?   Obviously,  some changes from what came out the factory door can be made,  and still be within the purpose of this particular Club.

 

Every car club I am a member of recognizes that, including this one.  The question I proposed did not nake fun of those folks who like the sheet metal of some old car,  but for any number of reasons want to make it more driveable.  I rarely go to an auto show without being impressed with the craftsmanship and ingenuity of some of these creations.  What my question was intended to do,  is ask whether those who do that have missed the point of this particular club.    As for "over-drives" - you are correct that what comes out of "band" style Hydramatic is direct drive.   Because it has more than three speeds, Cadillac was free to install a much higher (numerically lower) rear axle ratio.   So we are both right in that regard...I should have made my comment about that clearer.....given the final drive gear set of pre-war Hydramatic equipped Cads,  the numerical ratio is roughly the same as a car of that era that did have a Borg Warner overdrive.

 

Finally,  yes, you are partially correct that I have a modern era final drive ratio in my pre-war Packard Twelve.  You'd have to be an expert on pre-war Packard's "Senior Division" products to spot what I did, and only by crawling underneath.

 

In the interest of being authentic (and  component strength!)   I kept my axle housing, the axles themselves,  so that my spring mounts, brake attachment fittings,  sway-bar mounts (yes, Packard engineers knew some owner's liked "roughing up" their cars - front and rear sway bars, a cross-bar on the rear axle to further control "body roll" in extreme speed driving (who wants to guess how I know that....!).  A machine shop cut out the center "pumpkin", welded the two axle housing sections to it - machined the inner portions of my axles to fit the Olds splines. 

 

Why?   I did that when the Interstates started opening up.   "Do the math".....and you will see that a typical highway speed of 75 mph,  my engine, with all its accessories, is spinning so much slower than if I tried that with the stock/original final drive ratio.

 

So you are partially correct, my Twelve (that I have owned for sixty plus years - I am now 84) has had a few up-grades.  I do not believe these upgrades are contrary to the objectives of THIS PARTICULAR CLUB!   

 

Forgot to mention...i have an electric fuel pump installed in a secret place - reflects the much higher vapor pressure of today's gasoline.

 

May I again respectfully suggest a re-reading of Editor West Peterson's article on "up-grades" (see May/June 2023 of the ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE)       In that article he notes things like electric fuel pumps, modern tires, modern seals,  all consistent with the purpose of this club.  I agree with him - this IS the right place for guys like him and I to discuss what WE prefer in the old car hobby.

 

Please don't blame me or West.  This particular club has been in existence long before we were born.  If you find what this particular club's focus on historical authenticity (along with common sense adjustments)....is t the right club for you - welcome!  Plenty of  other great organizations whose publications reflect what they think is appropriate.

 

A closing note on the 6 to 12 volt issue.   Yes, I agree....wish my Packard Twelve had a 12 volt system. Most larger commercial-type trucks in the USA & Canada have had 12 volts since the late 1920's  . ( My '36 American La-France V-12 with its monster 900 cubic inch overhead V-12 had that - two six volt batteries in series) 

 

But did 6 volt systems work well;  will do what a new car owner expects...whether it is a Ford or a Packard?   Come to the SAN MARINO MOTOR CLASSIC (the "Pebble Beach of Southern California")    in late-August, look me up in the Packard section,  and ask me to start my car's engine.  It will do what its original owner expected it to do. Start RIGHT NOW hot or cold.    Because I take care of it.   That holds just as true for old Fords, Buicks, and whatever else has a stock 6 volt electrical system. 

see above

 

[Grimy]

7 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

see above

 

Have you been away, Peter?  Or did it take this long to formulate your response?  I know quoting can be confusing, but you should try to put your new material outside the quote box.

 

My cars in my signature all remain 6V and will during my lifetime.  If I felt a need to install A/C to pamper my almost-as-old-as-you self, I'd consider 12V.  As I often mentioned in these fora, I've been using Optima batteries exclusively for 20 years, and a pair in parallel in the 8-cyl cars (but not even in the 525 cid 1918 6), primarily for the reserve capacity for driving at night, but also because I don't like pulling seats or carpets and floorboards to check water and clean corrosion.  A pair of 6V Optimas does indeed spin the starter with more alacrity than even a Group 3 or 4 wet cell battery.  The date on my Jeepster battery is June 2009. 

 

I'll bet that any of my downdraft-carb cars will start as quickly as your Packard.  A 1937 Packard 12 resides in my 2-car garage in exchange for my tall 1918 residing in my friend's high-door garage 1.5 miles away.  He has another 1937 12 as well, largely self-restored, 2nd at Pebble a few years ago.  I've driven one of his.  The Packard advantage, beginning in 1937, was independent front suspension which I greatly admire, but Pierce beat Packard to the punch with its factory overdrive (4.58 --> 3.22) in 1936.  I auditioned retirement some years ago by driving the 1936 Pierce from the SF Bay Area to Cleveland, solo, in 3 days' driving time.

 

I will not be able to make San Marino, having just returned from the PAS Meet at Gilmore and prepping the 1918 for the 5-day 450-mile Modoc Tour (sorry, your Packard is too modern to qualify) mid Sept and the 1934 Silver Arrow for a drive to the Ironstone Concours at Murphys CA in late Sept, and a few one-day tours in between.

[BobinVirginia]

41 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

see above

 

I sense much narcissism here.