Hackerbilt Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Hey guys. This little car was recently posted in a local vintage cars Facebook group. Apparently it was one of the earlier cars roaming around here. Not the earliest, that was a 1904 Thomas Flyer and later a 1906 Rolls with the same owner. This little Speedster was obviously a car for a common man of the day, not a rich person. Looking close it has some sort of transverse spring up front. Not really like a Model T, but something different! Very interesting machine. My first thought was a Metz, but looking at Google pics nothing seems to match up to this distinctive looking little machine! Hoping someone can identify it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Guitar Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) It's a Sizaire et Naudin. Edited April 6 by John E. Guitar (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Long Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Sizaire-Naudin, probably a Type G. Single cylinder 1,580 cc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) So interesting, 1 cubic inch equals about 16.4 CC, so the car has a single piston with displacement about the size of a gallon of paint! 1580 CC equals about 96 cubic inches, and would suggest a bore and stroke like 6"x11" or 7"x8" (correction, should be about 4.5" piston, and 6" stroke). When you consider todays modern 2000cc (or 122 CI) 4 cyl engines have individual piston displacements of 30.5 CI ( and maybe 3.4" bore and 3.4" stroke), the fuel, firing, power stress, lubricating requirements etc must have made for serious engineering. Bang Bang Bang. Edited April 7 by Gunsmoke 30CI changed to 24CI (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariejan NL Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Interesting find, I never have spotted a Sizaire & Naudin across the ocean. In Europe they were popular sporty little cars, especially around 1910. This particular model indeed had a 1 cylinder engine, bore x stroke 120x140mm. I don't know about the types, but this was a 'voiture type course'. So a little racer, although the real Sizaire & Naudin racers of this period were quite different in appearance. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 hours ago, Gunsmoke said: So interesting, 1 cubic inch equals about 16.4 CC, so the car has a single piston with displacement about the size of a gallon of paint! 1580 CC equals about 96 cubic inches, and would suggest a bore and stroke like 6"x11" or 7"x8". When you consider todays modern 2000cc 4 cyl engines have individual piston displacements of 30.5 CI (and maybe 3.4" bore and 3.4" stroke), the fuel, firing, power stress, lubricating requirements etc must have made for serious engineering. Bang Bang Bang. I think your arithmetic is a little off - the (relatively) common models of these are 120x 140 mm - 4 /34" x 5 1/2". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 It is the transmission that is the most interesting part of these cars. JEG posted thsi one last year - There is a good little video - by a guy with a strong Australian accent - here which explains how the gears work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 This 1907 Sizaire was originally owned by a distant relative of mine. It was found derelict in the late 1950s and restored by an exceptionally clever engineer, the now late, Bob Turnbull. Bob did a lot of the development work on Hamilton jet boat units. At one time he lived not far from me, and I recall following him on his way home one day at his usual cruising speed of 55mph. Two other interesting features of the car are it independent front suspension (very advanced) and its wooden chassis frame (archaic?). The first two photos here I took in 1980 at a VCCNZ National Veteran Rally. In the first one I was in the back seat of a Ford T - Bob passed us soon after. The info sheet in the last photo states there is only one S-N in NZ, but I know there were more, but I am not sure if their current whereabouts. The third photo shows three S-Ns at the 1996 VCCNZ 50th Anniversary Rally. The other shots are more recent. The new owner is local who had the wherewithal to ensure the car stayed in NZ. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 More re the Sizaire. Bob wrote some notes for Beaded Wheels, the VCCNZ magazine in 1957. This issue #9. The magazine is still published - now six times a year, and issue #387 is about to be delivered to members. BW-9-Mar-1957_low.pdf (vcc.org.nz) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 More re the Sizaire. Bob wrote is some detail about the car's rebuild in issue #43 and #44 of Beaded Wheels, and then wrote a road test #90. BW-43-Sep-1965_low.pdf (vcc.org.nz) BW-44-Dec-1965_low.pdf (vcc.org.nz) https://vcc.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/BW-90-Oct-1974_low.pd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 nzcarnerd, sorry for the mess up, converting from CC to CI and imperial to metric overall is always a mindbender, especially when the displacement formula is same as a cylinder volume is π r² h. Oh well , it is Saturday, the mind is not supposed to be working today. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackerbilt Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 Wow...never heard of them! I'm surprised that a car like that ended up over here from France! It was owned by a French businessman who came here to work for our early railroad company. After the 1st world war he returned to France. I expect he took the car back with him...but I'm not sure obviously. Big Thank You to all for the interesting information! Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Sizaire et Naudin did make a short run at marketing in the US. They entered one of these single cylinder cars in the 1908 New York to Paris race! Timing didn't help them any. The beginning of the race was marred by a severe blizzard making the roads even worse than the usual winter time driving. Of the cars that did manage to begin the race, they were (if I recall correctly) the first to drop out. If I recall correctly (again?), I think on the second day. Other much bigger and more powerful cars struggled, but the nearly two feet of snow on the roads was more than the little car could handle. I got up close to one about thirty years ago. It was being restored by a member of my HCCA Regional Group. They are quite rare in this country, but very much appreciated in the one and two cylinder crowd. They are one of the fastest stock model HCCA single cylinder cars one can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Guitar Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 There’s one up for auction here: https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1908-sizaire-naudin-model-c-speedster/?filtersInput[auctionType][0]=Live Auction&filtersInput[liveAuctionVenue][0]=Mullin Automotive Museum&sortBy=ENDING_SOONEST&pageNumber=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Wow! I didn't agree to their cookies, so wasn't able to read the entire listing. However, if the car is in reasonably good condition, I would expect their estimate is a bit low. I certainly wish I had the means. I would love to be able to bid on that and be able to maybe have one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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