Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 I’d like to replace the carriage bolts- threads look rough. At very lease I’ll source new nuts and run a die over the threads. I’m thinking these carriage bolts are pretty specifics for these hubs- not an off the shelf bolt. Any negatives to removing the outer hub to make it easer to clean/ paint? It looks like there are still bolts holding the inner hub assembly- judging from the ends of threads visible after the brake drum was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 At this point I’ll also need to get finish/ body color paint as well for the hubs and rims. Natural/ stained wood for the spokes and body color for rims, hubs, and rim bolts/nuts is the plan- sticking with the blue color I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Once you get all your blasting done, I would use some Smiths epoxy on the wood. It will seal it as well as give it some color. I used it on the bed wood on my truck. You can also use clear over it. Here’s the link. Mike www.smithandcompany.org 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Thanks Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Boehm Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) The Smith's epoxy sealer alone does not have any UV resistance. Topcoats of exterior spar varnish supplies the UV resistance and the whole finish will last longer. I like this thread. I'm learning about 1920's cars and mechanical brakes in particular. Nice wood on the fire truck bed also. Edited July 29 by Tom Boehm (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said: Once you get all your blasting done, I would use some Smiths epoxy on the wood. It will seal it as well as give it some color. I used it on the bed wood on my truck. You can also use clear over it. Here’s the link. Mike www.smithandcompany.org Mike, Looks like the epoxy sealer is what is used to seal the wood- then you hit that with clear? Going through the smith and company website- Curious about your process. Thanks! Edited July 29 by Slawnski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) On 7/28/2024 at 8:11 PM, Slawnski said: I’d like to replace the carriage bolts- threads look rough. At very lease I’ll source new nuts and run a die over the threads. I’m thinking these carriage bolts are pretty specifics for these hubs- not an off the shelf bolt. Any negatives to removing the outer hub to make it easer to clean/ paint? It looks like there are still bolts holding the inner hub assembly- judging from the ends of threads visible after the brake drum was removed. Since you would like to drive this car I would opt for new bolts. On my 1925 Standard with adapted 1927 21" wheels they had to remove the hub and drum from the old 22" wheels to match the axle. The sandwiched hub/spokes/drum have the drum torqued down and either the end of the bolt was peened or center punched so the nuts did not back off. Unfortunately it pretty much destroys the bolt threads when you remove the nut. I made several replacements for the stripped out bolts on my wheels. Claimer's Wheelwright in Waynesboro, PA. should have access to the high crown bolts. If the spokes were in good solid shape, I would have avoided removing the drums at all cost. Once the wheel is pulled apart it will be out of true. MY issue was that since the rear wheels were pulled apart previously and the hubs changed my spokes had loosened up. The tapered drift I made up to force the gaps to insert the shims. I also made a rim/spoke spreader and made stainless steel shims at the segment joints. I soaked the scraped faces of the spokes and end grain with boiled linseed oil. Prior to painting the wood spokes. I made several new nuts and bolts that could no longer be torqued to 30Ft. Lbs. After several thousand miles the wheel spokes still feel solid. But I have noticed that some of the shims have started to back out. Edited July 30 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) Here was a wheel photo of a car I judged back in 2014. A 1927 Model 26 coupe. My friend Steve's 1927-27 with aboult 90% original paint and plating. Almost back together after after his accident last fall. The 1927 rims should be black as should be the wheel wedges and bolts. Edited July 29 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 2 hours ago, dibarlaw said: I would have avoided removing the drums at all cost. Once the wheel is pulled apart it will be out of true. Oh boy now you tell me! I watched a video on how Ford made their wooden wheels and at the end of the process there was a machine that nipped off the extra bit of carriage bolt that stuck past the nut. I kind of figured that Buick did something similar to lock those nuts in. I don’t plan on actually taking the wheels any further apart. I wanted to be able to get the backside of the drums to get them cleaned up primed and painted. Would simply removing the drum cause the wheel to be out of round /true? The spokes are very tight and solid from what I can tell. thank you very much for the source of the high crown carriage bolts. As you know these things are not an off the shelf item. I would like to add that I did mark the drum and where it sits in relation to the valve stem on each wheel so I can put the drum back in the same location/orientation. Not sure if that’s going to help or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Calimers directed me to Langs Ford parts for the correct carriage bolt- i’ll have to take a look when I have a minute to dive into it. Thank you very much for the contact/info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Just ordered the carriage bolts from Langs Old Car Parts. 2825BQ $1.65 each. kinda freaking out about wheels being all wonky now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I put the epoxy on and let is cure for at least 24 hours. I then installed. I sanded it with 400. Then I cleared with imperium 2K clear. I also love it. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Ordered 2 quarts of epoxy- looking forward to it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 Dibarlaw- are these brake drums body color? Were the drums body color? I was going to go chassis black. I like the points down the spokes- nice touch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 (edited) Quick night in the shed- took a wire wheel to one drum and put a spare wheel that came with the parts car- into the blast cabinet. It’ll take a bit of time to do the 5 wheels for the 27-27. I’ll paint the drums black- same as the chassis. Hub and rim body color. On the fence with color of the rim that tire mounts to- either black or body color. Test wheel progress. There will need to be some hand sanding of the spokes before epoxy. Edited July 30 by Slawnski Photos out of order (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Received felt seals for front and rear wheels today. is there a trick to getting these in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 The blue on the spokes show that your spokes were indeed painted at one time. Showing the gold spear stripe over the blue. When I stripped the 21" wheels that came on my car the paint remnants indicated that they were originally painted (Patrol Green a 1927 color) including the spokes with a red stripe on the rim and spear stripe on the spokes. After nearly 98 years many things have happened to our cars. I have a DuPont refinishers guide from 1931 describing the stripping of paint from body and wheels for a Class "A" job. Wheels were possibly stripped early on and repainted without striping. Class"B" job not as labor intensive as a class A job. A class "C" job for used car. On the 22" set of wheels I restored for my car I worked down 4 different layers of paint before I found the original Cobalt Blue and gold stripe. They came from a 1925 Model 28 Coupe. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Took a few minutes to find my tire rim shrunken stretcher tonight. I really thought this thing was going to be my friend. Holy guacamole did I have trouble getting that tire off the rim! There’s no way the new tube and tuff go back onto this rim after it’s been painted without really screwing up the paint. I need more practice and better technique. I also realize the tire on this one has 0 flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Feeling frustrated with the tire / rim troubles I went out and removed the tank from the parts car. Between the original tanks good bottom and the second tanks good top we’ll get a useable tank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Question on the metal rings/tires: Can I compress the ring down small enough with the scruncher/spreader tool to facilitate easy removal of the tire without damaging the rim/band? I’ve dove into the very tiny rabbit hole of these tools and rims like these but have yet to see a definitive answer. Going back to researching but I thought I’d post the question here. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 The hard ancient tires do hold issues with removal. Removing the crumbling Wards Riverside was more than a chore and I ended up cutting the bead with a hacksaw. Trying to remount a not so ancient somewhat flexible tire (600X22 US. PEERLESS) for my spare caused me to blow out my left rotator cuff. Using a 5' prybar against my body and left shoulder trying to effect figure 9 in the illustration below. Getting the 2 rim ends to align and snap back into place. A pain I could not wish on anyone. Surgery and 4 months of rehab. Yes, incorrect use of the rim spreader can warp the split rim. Positioning the tool is critical to avoid damage. The proceedure sheet below show how to remove and remount a tire just using the combo lug wrench and tire tool that came with the cars tool kit. Easy peasey! IF you have a relatively fresh flexible tire! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Ouch! I had rotator cuff surgery as well after falling off the bed rails of a 64 Chevy I was painting. Agreed- wouldn’t wish that on anybody! I’ll have to watch out on step 9! I’m hoping the spreader tool helps get the rim back where it should be. Thank you for the step by step illustration- much appreciated. I was honestly hoping to reuse 4 of the better tires I have and put off the expense of new ones until the car is drivable. Most cost effective tire I see is still 140 + 25 for a tube and (I’m not sure how much) for the other rubber piece between the rim and tube ( this first 27-27 wheel did not have the additional rubber but in it- I’m guessing the rest don’t either. I'm going to try to remove the other tires tonight and we’ll see how that goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 24 minutes ago, dibarlaw said: The hard ancient tires do hold issues with removal. Removing the crumbling Wards Riverside was more than a chore and I ended up cutting the bead with a hacksaw. Trying to remount a not so ancient somewhat flexible tire (600X22 US. PEERLESS) Nice looking tire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 (edited) 12:45 Looks like he slipped too! Could have used the spreader tool instead of the portapower. Edited July 31 by Slawnski Spelling (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 Back at the tires tonight with a fresh mind. A big part of my problem, as I discovered is the tube and rim and tire all stuck together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 (edited) I used the rim shrinker and 2 tire spoons. Pulled 4 tires tonight and got into the swing of it just as I ran out of tires. These 4 tires only had a chunk of guard at the valve stem. Two out of a fabric (?) and 2 of rubber. One rubber guard was pretty mangled- looks like it was installed a little wonky. I would have thought there would be a rubber ring around the rim. 6 rings to sandblast and prime. I’ll have 1 for the spare tire and 1 as a spare just in case. Edited August 1 by Slawnski Spelling (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 On the Wards Riverside I removed it still had a red rubber innertube which stuck to thr crumbling tire and was pulled apart in strips. In another tire /rim I bought so Hugh Leidlein could have a spare 22" rim it was a chain patern 500X22 General tire. It had a Dayton inner tube that was light grey untill it hit the air and then turned brown. I scrubbed it up and inflated it. It held air for several years that way. It also had the composite felt/rubber/canvas flap. A much better design than the modern heavy rubber flaps. In several of my 21" rims when I had new tires installed instead of flaps there had been Duct Tape wrapped around the inside of the rim!. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 Received the wheel bolts today- they’re close…. But not quite. I might see what I can do chasing threads on original bolts- safer to install these though. Original on left above photo on the right in below photo the two on left were not driven all the way in but you can see that the head diameter is slightly smaller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 (edited) Sandblasted the rest of the parts car wheel- and one of the 27-27 rings rings. I might break down and take the rings to a powdercoater. I’m going to bring one tomorrow to get a quote. Epoxy arrived today. It’ll be a few days at least before I’m ready for that step. Edited August 2 by Slawnski Added text (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmhowe Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Doesn’t it annoy you when you buy the only replacement available and it isn’t quit right? In this case, I bet that if you use the high quality new bolts, no one will notice the difference, especially if you can get them nearly centered in the wheel positions. Also, the only people who will know the difference will be you (and, possibly, a few of us on this thread - I can’t speak for others, but I won’t tell). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, pmhowe said: Doesn’t it annoy you when you buy the only replacement available and it isn’t quit right? In this case, I bet that if you use the high quality new bolts, no one will notice the difference, especially if you can get them nearly centered in the wheel positions. Also, the only people who will know the difference will be you (and, possibly, a few of us on this thread - I can’t speak for others, but I won’t tell). Frustrating indeed… I’ll trust that we’ll all keep this to ourselves… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 Not sure if this is enough for 5 wheels but we’ll find out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 It should be. I still have some left from my truck. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Don't forget that the 1927 rims were Black. Felloes and hubs body color. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 Just picked up the paint for hubs and wheels- brought the following codes to the paint company. We landed on the following in acrylic enamel color formula. We’ll see how it sprays out on the hubs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 Two wheels and drums sandblasted tonight. A lot of hand sanding in my near future. Two more wheels to go and then into the rings. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 One more wheel and drum down. Need to do some yard work- then onto number 4 and the tire rings 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 Masked the wood spokes so I can prime the metal. After metal primer I’ll sand the spokes and epoxy, then urethane or clear coat over the epoxy. Then mask the spokes again and final paint the wheels. I went back and forth with myself on the order of operations and this is what I landed on. We’ll see how it goes. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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