billboos Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) My 1947 continental has been sitting for 6 months - will not start - no spark on either bank. What would cause both sides to fail -can condensers, resistors or points on both banks fail at the same time? Edited October 7, 2023 by billboos clarification (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboos Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, billboos said: My 1947 continental has been sitting for 6 months - will not start - no spark on either bank. What would cause both sides to fail -can condensers, resistors or points for both banks ail at the same time? Just pulled driver's side distributor cap and terminal plate and noticed that the four of the pins/rods in the plate are about 30% longer than the other two. is this normal or do I have broken pins not providing cantact? Edited October 7, 2023 by billboos clarification (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Time to do some basic troubleshooting! First of all get a voltmeter and check the battery to see what it's putting out under load. (When you're trying to start the engine!) Batteries do go bad, 6 volt units do too! I use an Optima 6 volt battery in my '41. It doesn't leak acid to corrode things like the regular lead acid ones. I have a cover for it to make it look like the original battery. Then tackle the distributor as you must have seen some problems with it. BTW if you look closely at the posts on the side plates of the distributor and watch the rotor go by to fire them, there should be something close to .010 clearance which is close! You have to pull the distributor to observe this action. There is someone who rebuilds those plates and rotors you can find on line at times. Don't think you'll find and new ones! And you need 3-4 vdc on the coil terminals for it to run properly. Sounds like you need an overhaul of your ignition if your battery is working. Skip Haney in Florida does the coil rebuilding, and he can also check out your distributor. Capacitors on each side of the coil need to be good also as they are what does the firing of the coil when triggered. You can get new ones from Chris Harrel @ Boos Harrel Lincoln in Ohio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) Very seldom does a car just sitting for six months break. That particular ignition system can be more challenging than others. Without trying to sound like a smart ass. Ignition systems are fairly simple. If you’re struggling with it, you need help from someone with a good skill set. Very seldom does it take more than 15 minutes to diagnose a no spark condition. Edited October 8, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboos Posted October 8, 2023 Author Share Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ray500 said: Time to do some basic troubleshooting! First of all get a voltmeter and check the battery to see what it's putting out under load. (When you're trying to start the engine!) Batteries do go bad, 6 volt units do too! I use an Optima 6 volt battery in my '41. It doesn't leak acid to corrode things like the regular lead acid ones. I have a cover for it to make it look like the original battery. Then tackle the distributor as you must have seen some problems with it. BTW if you look closely at the posts on the side plates of the distributor and watch the rotor go by to fire them, there should be something close to .010 clearance which is close! You have to pull the distributor to observe this action. There is someone who rebuilds those plates and rotors you can find on line at times. Don't think you'll find and new ones! And you need 3-4 vdc on the coil terminals for it to run properly. Sounds like you need an overhaul of your ignition if your battery is working. Skip Haney in Florida does the coil rebuilding, and he can also check out your distributor. Capacitors on each side of the coil need to be good also as they are what does the firing of the coil when triggered. You can get new ones from Chris Harrel @ Boos Harrel Lincoln in Ohio! Ray, thanks. I had Skip Haney rebuild my coils a few years ago. About the posts on the side plates, should two of them be about half the length of the other four as they are on the driver's side? Since both sides are failing, could it be the ignition switch. On the '47 it is a pull out switch after key is turned. How would I check that? That is the only thing I can think of that would cause both sides to concurrently fail. As edinmass said so diplomatically, I'm not the one with a good skill set Also, you said "Capacitors on each side of the coil". Are you referring to the condensers? Edited October 8, 2023 by billboos (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Both condensers can fail at the same time as it happened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboos Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ralphnof49 said: Both condensers can fail at the same time as it happened to me. Ralph, thanks. Does anyone know if there is a way to test them. I am going to buy a pair of H200 Echlin recommended by Skip Haneyto go with his rebuilt coils. Any other thoughts?? 18 hours ago, Ray500 said: Edited October 9, 2023 by billboos (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 On the V12 setup there are resistors between 6 volts provided by the ignition switch. You can measure the voltage that is provided at the coil. (2 terminals on it) Depending on where the distributor points are in their position you'll either get 6 volts or about 3 volts on each. Under load (with the points on either side in a grounding position) you'll get the lower voltage as the coil is pulling current through the ignition to one side of the coil. The coil is a dual coil, one for 6 different plugs during operations. You can bump the starter while you're measuring the voltage and see the alternate voltages. And the spark plug plates on the sides of the distributor should be the same. You can remove the distributor, label the plug wire's positions, and then you can get it open and up close to see how the rotor is "hitting" each of the 12 pins of the plug plates internally. Like I mentioned before there should be a clearance of about .010" (ten-thousandth) to fire properly. If all of that is good, then you should get a blue spark at each spark plug as the engine is firing attempting to start. Check those things first to see where you are with the distributor setup. It that appears to be working, you could have fuel issues. If I have fire on the plugs but it won't start, then I use a can of starting fluid you can get at an automotive store that will give the engine some temporary ignition sprayed down the carb. This is a good place to start, and hopefully you can get it running again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 10 hours ago, billboos said: Yes, capacitors is the same as condensers. In my electronics background we usually refer to them as capacitors. Same thing! Problem with the Lincoln condensers is they are configured in such a way that they don't have wire leads and connect directly to the coil terminals. You can rig other types, but getting those packaged properly look the best! Also try to verify if they are fresh, condensers will age and go bad in time, at least they will change value too. I do have a capacitor tester that will rate them properly. Not too critical, but having enough capacitance is important in the operation of the ignition. Weak ones are not good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboos Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 UPDATE: Car is now running. Connected a wire directly from battery negative terminal to one side of coil for a few seconds. It started and continued running when wire removed. Let it run a while --turned off and it restarted fine. Perhaps battery was strong enough to turn starter but not getting enough voltage to coil. Maybe a bit of fuel starvation also as was suggested. I really don't know -- as was noted I am not one with a good skill set. Thanks for all the good observations and suggestions. I hope others can benefit from the tips as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Glad it's up and running! Still do your maintenance on it, those machines do demand attention at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.E.Butcher Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 One thing I found out a long time ago -- 56 years playing with Flat head V8's and V12's --- just because the battery cables, starter cable; solenoid cable; look tight , take them off and REALLY clean the ends and battery posts SILVER bright !!! Check the easy stuff 1st!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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