Another '58 Caballero

[Crusty Caballero]

My original radius rod and the one I just got are both 40 1/4. Can't find any part #s. on either. Looks like it needs to be 41 or maybe even 41 1/4 (hence my 3/4 to 1" too short comments). Haven't been able to get any measurements from anyone yet. 

 

Got another car on the lift right now but when free will get the Caballero back up and double check that nothing else is bent and throwing it off. Only other option is that there are supposed to be some spacers between the left frame rail and the left radius rod bracket but I don't think that's the case. Occurs to me though, that's not even an option given how the brackets mount.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Crusty Caballero (see edit history)

[NailheadBob]

This is from a forum member's 1958 Roadmaster, we both hope this helps.

 

Very tough to measure because the rod bushings are encased on both ends by steel brackets. Add ancient undercoating over everything. Best measurement I can get is between the two bolts that go through the bushings. That length seems to be 42" even. Let me know if that helps.

 

Bob

 

EDIT: could you post a picture of the end of your radius showing the bushing, as the member with Roadmaster wants to replace the bushings and see what it looks like out of the car.

Edited September 12, 2022 by NailheadBob
update (see edit history)

[Crusty Caballero]

Thanks for keeping me in mind. Since I've now got two radius rods, today I made a dummy rod extended 3/4" (= 41" center to center) to test. Will be a few days yet before I can get it on but here's some pics. I can see how someone might get 42" trying measure in place. Got the bushings from Cars, LLC (Old Buick Parts). Since then I think I've read good bushings are hard to get?

 

Right frame side

 

Left axle side

 

[Crusty Caballero]

Finally got it back up on the lift. My 41" dummy radius rod ended up pushing axle too far to left. Couple more tries and 40 5/8" seems to be the sweet spot - only 3/8" extension from original 40 1/4" but it is what it is. Another close look at the brackets/mounting points and nothing is bent. So short of learning something different in the next day or so, I'm going to cut/weld the nicer rod I picked up to 40 5/8.

 

Noticed something else a little odd during the repeated lifting/lowering. The rear end of the car progressively crabs towards the passenger side each time you lift/lower. Enough that after a couple of lifts you better check your pad placement. Never had a vehicle with a radius rod/panhard bar so maybe this is common? Makes sense given how the radius rod pushes the axle to the left and then as the weight is off and axle drops, it shifts to right where it will be it sits down again.

[Crusty Caballero]

Got the extended radius rod built and starting to work on booster/MC. Just got major rebuild kit this afternoon from Fusick for 57'-58' w/ 4 hole MC to booster gasket as shown on their site. However sheet included (from Harmon Classic Brakes) notes four hole MC = '55-'56 and three hole MC = '57-59. From what I can tell, the kit is same for all except the MC to booster gasket. My car had 3-hole installed but had obviously been off at some point and may not be original. I got another complete 4-hole unit in the deal. Both master cylinders cleaned up nice but the booster canister for the 3-hole has a good bit of pitting so I'm planning on building the 4-hole. I can call Fusick/Harmon on Mon but in the meantime, can anyone confirm correct years for the 4 vs 3 hole Moraine master cylinders?

 

Also, there are no instructions included, just a bad copy of a copy of a parts breakdown. Neighbor rebuilt a similar unit for his '56 Olds a couple years ago and was told by parts seller that the leather seal in the booster needed to be soaked in neatsfoot oil before installing. Seal in the kit I got seems soft enough but do I need to soak/wipe down w/ neatsfoot oil? I read a comment somewhere about changing the felt backer for the leather seal due to oil soak so questioning whether to oil or not.

 

[NailheadBob]

I believe my "58 has the 3 hole gasket for master cylinder, I will double check and let you know, here is photo of instruction sheet that came with my rebuild kit, some of the parts are shared with Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and some Chevy's.

 

Bob

 

EDIT: I verified my '58 has the 3 bolt master cylinder and gasket.

Edited September 24, 2022 by NailheadBob
update (see edit history)

[lancemb]

Just lubricate the leather seal and the inside of the booster with trans fluid

[Crusty Caballero]

21 hours ago, NailheadBob said:

I believe my "58 has the 3 hole gasket for master cylinder, I will double check and let you know, here is photo of instruction sheet that came with my rebuild kit, some of the parts are shared with Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and some Chevy's.

 

Bob

 

EDIT: I verified my '58 has the 3 bolt master cylinder and gasket.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

[usnavystgc]

I lubricated my leather seal with tranny fluid as directed by the shop manual.  It also says to put a thin coat of tranny fluid on the walls of the canister and soak the wick with tranny fluid.  

 

Does the shop manual for the 58 not have a detailed assembly instruction for the brake booster assy.?

[Crusty Caballero]

2 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

I lubricated my leather seal with tranny fluid as directed by the shop manual.  It also says to put a thin coat of tranny fluid on the walls of the canister and soak the wick with tranny fluid.  

 

Does the shop manual for the 58 not have a detailed assembly instruction for the brake booster assy.?

It probably does. But I've got too many projects going at once and forget that I've got manuals for some. And I was venting a little because the "major repair kit" didn't come with even the simplest of instructions. But it's done and hopefully will work once I get it installed. If I had to do another though, I'd probably look elsewhere for a rebuild kit. There were a couple of simple rubber parts missing as well as the thin metal spacers seal expander that seem minor enough that they should have been included in the kit. Fortunately, between two units I could piece together everything I needed. And the supplied rubber boot that goes over the input shaft is too big. Guess I shouldn't expect much for $270 w/ shipping!

 

 

 

[usnavystgc]

16 hours ago, Crusty Caballero said:

Guess I shouldn't expect much for $270 w/ shipping!

Yeah, that's precisely why I didn't buy a rebuild kit for the second one.  It took longer to get the parts but, it was much cheaper.

[Gearheadengineer]

On 9/18/2022 at 1:05 PM, Crusty Caballero said:

Noticed something else a little odd during the repeated lifting/lowering. The rear end of the car progressively crabs towards the passenger side each time you lift/lower. Enough that after a couple of lifts you better check your pad placement. Never had a vehicle with a radius rod/panhard bar so maybe this is common?

I just came across your thread. Love the car, and impressed with your progress. The “crabbing” you noticed is normal for a panhard bar suspension. Caused by the panhard bar arc when the suspension drops. Good thing to remember when you bring the car up and down multiple times. 

[Crusty Caballero]

No update, just a day in the sun while moving stuff around in the shop.

 

[Buick1958]

Beautifull

[Crusty Caballero]

Finally got my butt in gear and got the booster/master cylinder installed. I've been dreading the underdash part with that big nut but it's done. I hope the engineer who designed that and put a bunch of stuff in the way so you couldn't get to it is still laughing. Ended up using a 1-3/4 socket with a rod stuck in the detent hole to turn.

 

With the specified Super 11 not available, what brake fluid are folks using in these original systems? Search generally suggests DOT3 or 4.

[NailheadBob]

Here is a homemade tool for master cylinder securing nut

 

Kent Moore tool #J-6618

 

1-3/4 “ shallow socket 3/4” drive and 1” punch tube welded to socket

 

can use 1” open end wrench or long punch to tighten/loosen large nut

 

Bob

Edited August 28, 2023 by NailheadBob (see edit history)

[Crusty Caballero]

4 hours ago, NailheadBob said:

Here is a homemade tool for master cylinder securing nut

 

Kent Moore tool #J-6618

 

1-3/4 “ shallow socket 3/4” drive and 1” punch tube welded to socket

 

can use 1” open end wrench or long punch to tighten/loosen large nut

 

Bob

 

Thanks. You showed me that previously and I was going to make one but decided to just try a hardened rod in the detent hole in the socket and it worked. Maybe not as tight as it could be with your tool/wrench but as cramped as it is in that area under the dash I'm not even sure I could get anything longer than the socket I used on or a 1" wrench on it. Between the 4 bolts on the engine side of the firewall and 1-3/4 nut on the inside, it can't go anywhere.