Locomobile in the news

[alsfarms]

Wow! That train sure turned that poor Sportif into a parts car. Thinking that, I wonder what wrecking yard it was sent to? I will follow up and see if I can get a few parts for the 1925 that I need.  (What a dream)

Al

[George K]

I don’t think Sportif’s have steps and a rumble seat. Just saying.

[alsfarms]

For some reason my smart phone struggles to open some picture files.  I guess I am about due for a phone upgrade.  When my phone finally struggled to get your train smashed Locomobile 48 "Roadster" opened up, I took a quick survey and should have studied more closely for a few minutes.  I noticed the second seat, body damage but didn't notice the rumble seat step plates.  What a waste of a good Locomobile.  The modern catch phrase, when looking at automobile accidents is, "The driver must have been distracted".  I wonder what this driver was distracted by, can't be a dang smart phone, maybe the joy juice, or more likely the Blonde female sitting next to him.

Now if I can just track down the salvage yard this one was sent to.  I want to check on parts availability.

Al

[prewarnut]

Hmmm, hooked and dragged a bit maybe? I would have thought complete obliteration if it was hit at speed by, say a 2-8-2 Mikado.

[George K]

1 hour ago, prewarnut said:

Hmmm, hooked and dragged a bit maybe? I would have thought complete obliteration if it was hit at speed by, say a 2-8-2 Mikado.

Locomotive vs. Locomobile. Locomobile worse for wear but still not a bad showing. 

[prewarnut]

   In roaming throough the papers from the D.C. area is the announcement of the Junior 8. Interestingly it looks like, at least at first, Locomobile retained the "senior" styling and I don't recall many or any Junior touring models. I wonder if this shares the Flint body?

 

 

[alsfarms]

Does the DC article have any promotion pictures?  I have not seen any Junior 8's with what I consider "Senior" styling.  Only the Model 90 stayed with a good degree of senior styling.  Early factory photos of the Junior 8 and other 8 cylinder offerings would certainly be fitting as we continue this line of conversation.

Al

[alsfarms]

Does anyone reading here know if the Durant club has much of an information archive that relates to the development of the Junior 8 and all other 8 cylinder Locomobile offerings?

Al

[prewarnut]

It would be interesting to see if background technical papers exist. Cliff Durant was racing the Junior 8. From the Indianapolis Times 5/2/25 and 5/5/25:  (wait, front wheel drive????!!!!!)

 

 

[George K]

2 hours ago, prewarnut said:

It would be interesting to see if background technical papers exist. Cliff Durant was racing the Junior 8. From the Indianapolis Times 5/2/25 and 5/5/25:  (wait, front wheel drive????!!!!!)

 

 

Cliff Durant raced and sponsored Miller racing car.

[alsfarms]

This is interesting information regarding the next generation of Locomobile as an independent marque.  I am not up on Billy Durant and his genealogy.  Is Cliff a son or brother? How many serious campaigns did the 1925 Locomobile Junior 8 run successfully?  Was this unit actually sponsored by the Durant Corporation or by Durant himself?  This Locomobile Junior 8 could have been built to revive the aura that old 16 did years before.  By 1925, times were different in America and especially the automobile industry.

Al

[prewarnut]

Cliff was his son. I believe he was a pilot and seemed to enjoy his wealth doing the usual things. He only outlived his dad by 10 years or so....

Just as a reality check, is this front wheel drive something no one has yet unearthed? Unless a misprint this seems to be something big. The above racer is not FWD so I wonder if a test platform.

Edited November 27, 2022 by prewarnut (see edit history)

[George K]

1 hour ago, prewarnut said:

Cliff was his son. I believe he was a pilot and seemed to enjoy his wealth doing the usual things. He only outlived his dad by 10 years or so....

Just as a reality check, is this front wheel drive something no one has yet unearthed? Unless a misprint this seems to be something big. The above racer is not FWD so I wonder if a test platform.

Yes the above racer is fwd. Entered by Durant and driven by Lewis. Durant’s rwd  car is the lower car. Durant was involved with several Harry Miller race cars.You must of not read the text.

[George K]

[George K]

This press photo on EBay shows Durant and states he is a world famous racer. Great image. Dated 1924.

[George K]

Durant Miller race cars circa 1922. You are right that he enjoyed spending his money.

[George K]

Not new but certainly down sized and improved. I remember reading that Harry Miller consulted with Walter Christie in regards to FWD. Photos are 1907

[prewarnut]

George,

   Hi thanks, the things I didn't know I didn't know.....

[alsfarms]

George, Are you able to post any pictures of the actual engine bay of both the front wheel drive and rear wheel drive Locomobile race cars?  These are very nice period pictures posted above!  Like Prewar stated, I am learning more about the use of the Locomobile name while under the ownership of Durant.

Al

[prewarnut]

9 hours ago, alsfarms said:

George, Are you able to post any pictures of the actual engine bay of both the front wheel drive and rear wheel drive Locomobile race cars?  These are very nice period pictures posted above!  Like Prewar stated, I am learning more about the use of the Locomobile name while under the ownership of Durant.

Al

I agree the period photos are great. The restored racer didn't look FWD from the front steering knuckle but I can see the shaft is slender so it's possible from the angle. Is that a gearbox up front as well? Amazingly small transmission in that case. Are they potentially ahead of the Auto Union design at this point in time?

[George K]

Enough hood up for you? It’s a travesty to connect these incredible Miller race cars to Locomobile. The twain do not meet. Only connection was Durant’s money.

[alsfarms]

George, thanks for posting those two pictures.  Durant must have been trying to invigorate the Locmobile brand by calling these race cars "Locomobile Miller specials"  That picture, with the hood off, certainly is a Miller based engine and not a Junior 8....at least in my thinking.  Was 1924-25 just before Indy promoted the "Junk Class" of race cars? 

Al

[George K]

As a follow up to Miller and Locomobile connection is the Jr8 engine was built to a Miller design but was not built by Miller unlike the race car. 

 

[edinmass]

The “new” V-16 Miller will be running around on the streets soon……the 1932 all wheel drive version. Built from the original plans…..by true craftsmen. One of the most remarkable automotive accomplishments I have ever witnessed.

[alsfarms]

hmmmmm.....I see a a bit of advertising "glitz" that I have simply overlooked in the past regarding the development of the Junior 8 engine and automobile.  That overlooked bit is the checkered flag behind the Junior 8 insignia.  I now know that it likely is giving reverence to the Miller and competition connection.  

Ed, keep us in the loop on the "NEW" Miller V-16 project that is nearing completion.

Al

[George K]

On 11/29/2022 at 10:05 PM, edinmass said:

The “new” V-16 Miller will be running around on the streets soon……the 1932 all wheel drive version. Built from the original plans…..by true craftsmen. One of the most remarkable automotive accomplishments I have ever witnessed.

Here’s the first one. There’s a reason it didn’t survive and not a good one.

[edinmass]

Yes, that’s it. I don’t know the story. Never followed racing much. I was shocked how small the bore/displacement was. They have the actual blueprints and it was interesting to see them find errors and “work through” them while actually building it. Frankly the entire project boggles my mind. I hope the owner decides to show it and actually does some parade laps with it. I normally don’t go for such projects but in this case it’s simply an almost unbelievable accomplishment. 

[Milburn Drysdale]

7 hours ago, George K said:

Here’s the first one. There’s a reason it didn’t survive and not a good one.

How many were made? What happened?

[alsfarms]

George, Here is a question for you. The picture you posted on November 27 showing a line of 1922 Miller Durant race cars, appear to have disc wheels on them.  Is it your thought that these are true disc wheels or covers over wood spoked wheels?  I see covers over wood spoked earlier but think by 1922, these would be tried and trued disc wheels. I can't see a good straight on view but my guess would be a Budd wheel offering.

Al

[George K]

2 hours ago, Milburn Drysdale said:

How many were made? What happened?

The entire story was documented in a book written by William Burden “Peg and I”. Burden was part of the Vanderbilt family. His brother started the project with another man who also wanted one and William took his brothers over. The book has the best first hand description of the Miller factory I ever read. Hemings did a story about the second coming of this car in 2020. I don’t know how to post the link but someone with the ability can by searching Burden Offenhauser V16. 

The short story is that the end result was a very expensive fabulously beautiful car that was a real POS. Burden was so dismayed he sold it back to  Fred Offenhauser for $600. Burden knew great cars and this wasn’t one.

[alsfarms]

I agree with Millburn. This is a "Paul Harvey" moment.  We are waiting for "the rest of the story" on this Miller special.

Al

Adendum.....

My request was answered while I was creating my post.  Thanks George.  I would like to read the book 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

I decided to exercise my searching skills and came up with an interesting bit of information from my home state of Utah early on for 1915 and earlier. Some of the listed statues and information are from Salt Lake City, the State Capital of Utah, and Cache County, which is northern Utah bordering Idaho and Wyoming.  Bare in mind that 1915 and earlier, Utah and particularly south of Salt Lake City, where I live, was still the wild west.  I did see that a 1909 Locomobile was found in Northern Utah in 1909.  I will dig further regarding records from central Utah but do not think that any of the Central Utah Counties have put effort or resources into making available early vehicle information.  However, I have not given up yet!  I just do not have a good grip on how to search.

Here is the link to some Utah 1915 and earlier vehicle information.  If you have Utah family from Northern Utah, you may find your family and vehicle information in these records.

https://sites.rootsweb.com/~utcache/history/auto-history.htm

Alan

[George K]

In the beginning of A.L.Riker’s career.

[alsfarms]

That certainly looks like a serious contraption.

Al