Guest Parm Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 A couple of days ago, I received the latest issue of Journey With Olds and it mentions that an out of court settlement agreement was made with the former editor. As a rather new club member (I joined in early Fall of '02), I don't have a clue as to what this issue is about. While I'd just assume not know all of the sorted details, can anyone give me a general outline as to what prompted this legal action? If it's not something for this message board, I'd appreciate a private message on this subject.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I'll explain the details in a PM later, Parm. I do not think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss this issue, and ask all participants to respect that. No need to divide the Olds Club all over again here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I first met Dennis when he worked in Public Relations at Olds in 1970. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I was in the Service Department and had many occasions to visit Dennis, Helen and Dave Jarrard in their offices. Dennis and I were friends until his death and I made it a point to drive to Michigan for his wake.That being said, Glenn, I respect your reply BUT the club's members may have a right to know what occured in this case. It is my understanding from Clay's article that it might be forthcoming in a future issue. If there wasn't any confidentiality agreement in the settlement, I believe the members may have a right to know so that future situations like this do not happen. It has been a regrettable part of our history as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Speaking of editors, what is up with the front wheeling section of JWO? I thought it was to be about Toronado's? What happened to getting replacement gaskets for the front of a hood on a 68 Toronado, or where can a guy get correct inner boots for a 66 Toronado, etc..... Whats next Ralph, cat-eye marbels that we played with back in the forties?? Or will it be on how many lobsters you can get into one lobster trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 66 Toro guy, you sure have a way of making friends! Your comments about Ralph were not necessary as he has written more about Toronado's than you will know in a lifetime. He has given of himself to help others and to promote the Toronado/Aurora part of the hobby. This forum and the OCA can be an excellent source of knowledge and help if you let it. Making smart a== remarks about other members will not get you anywhere!If you have a legitimate gripe about JWO and it's contents write the Editor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.zaban Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 HAY, GIVE THE GUY A BREAK, HE JUST SIGNED ON 1/03 AND HE OR WHOEVER IS FROM THAT STATE, THEY JUST GENERALLY TALK , DRIVE, DO EVERYTHING , IN THAT ATTITUDE. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I tend to concur that any information on this situation can be considered from several orientations. Yes, the general membership CAN have a "right to know" provided there are no "sealed" issues or outcomes, BUT discussing what the whole deal might have been about, how it transpired, and its resolution --in an open forum -- would serve no worthwhile purpose and could only result in increasing the fragmentation of the membership which might already exist over this situation. Typically, there will be "for" and "against" orientations with a good deal of emotion involved instead of looking at the "just the facts".Several years ago, we had a situation in the Buick Club of America which involved the club's magazine editor and some actions he took. The BCA Board, who were closest to the whole situation were divided over the situation and it got worse from there. Neither the Board nor the Editor were totally blameless in how things transpired (from what I could see), but that whole situation centered on the fact the editor is an employee of the club and should act accordingly, even though he was a club member too in this case.Prior to the final airing of the whole event (which those of us in the North Texas Chapter had a ring side seat for as we hosted that particular Board meeting in Arlington), there were "Save __________" petitions for the editor and there were also piles of "for" and "against" communications to the Board from club members (the contents of which were read to those present). Lots of emotions on both sides for keeping or firing him at that time! I will dare say that until sitting through that whole situation down here, few people fully understood the scope of the whole situation and how it had escalated to the frenzied level it got to, which required some action to be taken. What I felt was significant was that one of the "save" petition originators was totally silent during the whole deal when public input could be made. That, in itself, indicated to me that he didn't know all of what had been going on.So, having been through that deal as an impartial observer, club member, and chapter member, what has happened in the court room should remain there unless someone specifically desires to know what went on--in which case the individual can do their own research on the matter with knowledgeable individuals in the club. Such research should include several people who would have a balanced orientation as there probably was a good deal of emotion involved just as there was in the BCA situation.Just some thoughts . . .NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I have to agree with you on this 100%! NTX5467. This club as a whole has gotten very narrow minded in the recent past. Club members are entitiled to the right to know!!! Why all of the secrecy, Rucket Rusty Rungar? It is crap like this that gives this club and forum, a really bad name for itself! i.e. Rocket raidars first comment about this whole ordeal, Hey rocket, I to have been in this club since 79, I have seen the good and the bad, and personally from a long term member, "OCA" really do not care for the beating behind the bush for a personal qualm against this person, and making a comment about the poor guy after the fact is just crazy on your part!!! You need some people skills!! better yet keep your nose in those books!!! LoL,66,68,70 Toro Guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65Jayone Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I choose to use my FINAL post in what used to be a friendly set of forums to say that it is obnoxious jerks like 66Toroguy that can make going "online" unpleasant. A quick look at this guy's posting history will demonstrate that he has NO business acting like a "voice of reason". There is another Olds-related site which I have frequented in the past, and which has also recently been infiltrated by an anonymous, unhappy SOB with some kinda of chip on his shoulder / axe to grind. Life is too short, and I'm not going to expose myself to the kind of swill that emanates from the fingers of a coward who hides behind his computer keyboard. Its just not why I got into the hobby. So to all of those who seem to have their heads screwed on right, I say "Happy Oldsmobiling!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Scott- don't leave just yet.ToroGuy- there's nothing secret about what happened. I was on the OCA board when it all went down, and I'm frankly tired of hearing about it and discussing it. It was all we talked about for three years, and the relentless single-mindedness that certain people exhibited about it bordered on insanity. We couldn't handle normal club business because these people kept steering the discussion back to the kickback and legal action issue. And all the time the BOD was sidetracked on this mess, certain elements were running amuck in club business, doing things by executive privilege instead of bringing them before the board and pissing off a lot of people in the process. Not to mention shuffling a lot of money around.As far as settlement details, I don't know them. I've heard from two current Directors and they haven't been told anything either. And if I knew details of it, I wouldn't broadcast it here. It's not my place to do it. Pat Yancey and Clay Mollman are the only people in OCA right now who are in a position to disclose anything about this, and until they do so, I'm not discussing it any further here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 From my experiences, anything that bogs down the normal "taking care of buisness" issues before any club's BOD should be minimized and dealt with up front so the BOD doesn't get bogged down or side tracked in their normal course of affairs. Many times, it's easier to table things and leave them for later officers to deal with--for whatever reason. By the time is reached when some action MUST be taken, there probably already is strong sentiments on each side of the situation and things can get pretty emotional as a result--plus the original facts can become altered as things are repeated among the members too.In any event, what has happened has happened and there is NO purpose it digging it up! It's now history and that's how it needs to stay! The BOD needs to move on and get some things accomplished to make the OCA the great and FUN organization it (and other car clubs!) need to be instead of a bunch of fragmented members who aren't informed enough about particular club issues to even be talking about them.Not being fully aware of how the OCA operates, I will state that when the BCA started letting individual chapters host the quarterly BOD meetings, it openned things up a whole lot to the general membership. More people could see what was actually happening (not that anything had really been hidden previously!) and it was good. The minutes of these BOD meetings are now posted on the club website too. As always, if you want to be involved, you can be. Run for a national BOD office and then you'll really be involved.Yesterday is history and leave it at that. Trying to right previous alleged wrongs is counterproductive to any organization, but evolving into a better organization (using past accomplishments as a base to build from) is much better. Once you get the momentum rolling from these past accomplishments it is usually easier to accomplish more great things.Make the future as good as it can be--it's more fun that way!Enjoy!NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I tend to agree with the above post and our moderator BUT the purpose in my post was to open up the discussion of whether MEMBERS had a right to know. I have been a Past President of OCA and a lot of other organizations and understand the dynamics of this discussion. However, the club survives on members dues and their faith in leadership. The concern that I have in this particular case, is to make sure this does not happen again.However in re-reading Clay's article it seems that this settlement was made "with both parties making no admission of wrong-doing", which may preclude any real discussion of the matter. Anyone who knows me, understands my disgust over politics or "king" syndrome when someone becomes an officer in a club. The club IS for the members and it is encumbent on the officers to do everything they can to make the club stronger, provide more services and meet the needs of the membership.I did not want to drag either Dennis or his family thru the mud. I have known Dennis probably longer than anyone in OCA. My concern is for the future of the club and to let future leaders understand their responsibility of due diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasand77 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Come on you guys! What a bunch of old ladies. Is this club the only thing going on in your lives? Move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Moving right along, would anyone have a parts numbers list handy that would allow me to to build a correct W-34 455? Thanks! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Nope- not old ladies, just a bunch of folks who loved Oldsmobiles enough to get involved in running the club dedicated to them. And then got slammed for their trouble by people who wouldn't lift a finger except when it came time to [censored]. And the less they did, the louder they bitched.And yes, for the most part, I have left it behind and now I enjoy my cars without all the politics and personalities <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Got Rocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Amen.... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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