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Grier,

 

Yes, if I recall correctly, those are odd size threads. The common for them, pitchlead is 24. 1/4-24 5/16-24 etc. I've joked that apparently Mason and Locomobile only had one set of change gears for the lathe - 24 tpi.

 

Searles? Yes, I've ran across that persons name doing research on early steamers. I'll look back over some of the books I have and see what I can find. I'm thinking it was in "American Steam car pioneers" by John Bacon. This is really a must read for anyone interested in that era of automobiles. It's most likely out of print, but used copies do show up. Pay close attention to the Hand written letter by Whitney.

 

Another good one is "Floyd Clymer's steam car scrapbook.

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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Grier and Ron,

I have also ran across that unusual thread pitch on an early American-LaFrance fire engine project.  It is certainly a good thing when the SAE group got more things standardized in American Industry!

 

Harrison,

It looks like Ron has shared a refernce for a read you should consider....

Al

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Hello Ron and Grier (others who may need brass Locomobile tags)

I have a quote back from a reputable "lost wax" foundry for the three pieces show above.  I will get in touch with you, in a PM, to discuss if the project is doable and to what level.  The cost of set-up is something that is a consideration but not a project killer.

Regards,

Alan

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alan,   Just saw this thread this morning, from the Steam Traction World site.  I built one of their Likamobiles, from the first batch, back when they were Modelworks Inc.  I would be interested in a Locomobile data plate you are having cast, as well as the Locomobile step plates (2), if they are still available.  Thanks, Doug Tomb, Falls Church, Virginia.

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If anyone who frequents this forum, may have a need for any of the three plates shown in picture form on "Locomobile Parts For Sale", contact me  and I will include your needs in the current batch of parts being replicated.

Al

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Hello.

I need some help. I'm writing an article about one of the first cars in Norway. 

In these pictures the small car in pic #2 is car no 6 to be registered in Norway (1902). The large one in pic #1 and #2 is car no. 11. We know for sure that the small car is a Locomobile, but is the large one also a Locomobile, or might this be a Conrad? The registration protocol does not say the name of the car and so far I have not find any newspaper which print the name. 

The same question goes for the last picture - what car? 

 

The two first pictures is taken during the technical approval of the large vehicle in Norway. The owner is driving. The small car is owned by the Norwegian dealer, Fredrik Hiorth. It is claimed that he is sitting in the car in the last picture. We know for sure that he imported both Locomobiles and Conrads to Norway. 

 

Can anybody help, please?

 

Lars Cato

last ned (2).png

last ned (1).png

last ned (3).png

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Wow! Those two big cars are beasts!  The automobile is probably as tall as most of those people in the photos.  That poor little engine must be giving all it can with six passengers and the car being oversized.  They don't have any features that would tell me they are Locomobiles. 

 

Those two big cars are certainly from the same family.  Maybe one is a rebuild of the other but that would involve so much work I don't believe it would have been justified.  I say "two" big cars as the picture on the bottom shows control knobs underneath the front seat, the body is made for passengers in front, passengers in the very back (there is no round chimney getting in the way), and the very back most "wall" is straight up and down. The lower engine in the top two photos show the crankshaft and rods being hidden.  I think they are hidden as they have covers but the Toledo had a cast iron lower frame where the rods and crank were hidden and enclosed in an oil bath.  

 

As for Conrad, that would be a Roger question but Conrad was a very small producer, which means limited resources and when money is tight, it's usually not thrown at new models and development and those two cars would probably have been a large undertaking

 

Thank you for sharing the photos.  Very interesting.

 

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On 1/7/2021 at 5:18 AM, LarsCato said:

Hello.

I need some help. I'm writing an article about one of the first cars in Norway. 

In these pictures the small car in pic #2 is car no 6 to be registered in Norway (1902). The large one in pic #1 and #2 is car no. 11. We know for sure that the small car is a Locomobile, but is the large one also a Locomobile, or might this be a Conrad? The registration protocol does not say the name of the car and so far I have not find any newspaper which print the name. 

The same question goes for the last picture - what car? 

 

The two first pictures is taken during the technical approval of the large vehicle in Norway. The owner is driving. The small car is owned by the Norwegian dealer, Fredrik Hiorth. It is claimed that he is sitting in the car in the last picture. We know for sure that he imported both Locomobiles and Conrads to Norway. 

 

Can anybody help, please?

 

Lars Cato

last ned (2).png

last ned (1).png

last ned (3).png

 

Hello,

 

I agree the small stanhope is likely a Locomobile, there is nothing in the pic to indicate otherwise.

 

Pic#2 is definitely a 1902 ish Conrad Surrey. This old clipping from 1902 announces it's introduction. Your #2 pic of the same vehicle on drivers side displays about five distinctively Conrad features.

 

689945352_conradsurrey1902.jpg.3e228db53597d392a1e3e48927e3326a.jpg

 

Pic #3 is a different surrey, but I think it is a Conrad as well. The draglink going up the right side to the right front steering knuckle, the L-shaped handles on the sight glass, Supporting the tiller shaft with the step, the squarish swivel joint for the tiller handle are all Conrad features. The front of the body looks to be a Locomobile Stanhope B design. I'll stick with it is a Conrad as well, possible early 1903.

 

Here is a Model 70 Conrad in Denmark:

 

axle4.thumb.JPG.10b4c412b13e9ee65be57f00dfb302b7.JPG

 

Cool old pictures, thanks for sharing.

 

Ron

 

 

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14 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Nice Conrad over in Denmark.  How many Conrad projects/cars are located here in the US and Canada?

Al

Al, there are only two model 70 Conrad's one in Denmark, one in Ohio and the one model 65 that I'm working on that I know of. Our meets are very small. 😁 There is allegedly one in the UK, but if the pictures I seen are of the same car, it's doubtful. And I tried to contact the guy and never received a response. It looks as though it's on Locomobile or Grout chassis running gear.

 

Ohio model 70.

 

1008514328_october2005.thumb.jpg.9351a7dbbcc5336c417c884788fe4035.jpg

 

Conrad mystery car and may be somewhat similar to the Lars mystery car. The pic is labeled Conrad Steamer

 

839871998_conrad_motor_carriage_company_1902_08_autust_1_melzer_family_tree_charles_and_marie_melzer.png.94edbe37879998c19793e6893448dc1e.png

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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I can't see my reply has been published - I try again.

 

I want to thank this club and especially Ron for valuable information. These cars have been misinterpreted for Locomobiles in several books in Norway and the Conrad-name has not been mentioned.

The steam car guys in Norway have suspected that they probably are Conrads, though.

 

The history of this car (with all the people) ist that it was put into passenger traffic i Norway, but nails from horseshoes made the wheel puncture all the time.  

The story also tells the problems with the heater made flames rise on the side of the car, scared the costumers. It seems that the car was put out of traffic within a month. 

 

Thank you so much this information

 

Lars

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On 1/12/2021 at 1:28 AM, LarsCato said:

I can't see my reply has been published - I try again.

 

I want to thank this club and especially Ron for valuable information. These cars have been misinterpreted for Locomobiles in several books in Norway and the Conrad-name has not been mentioned.

The steam car guys in Norway have suspected that they probably are Conrads, though.

 

The history of this car (with all the people) ist that it was put into passenger traffic i Norway, but nails from horseshoes made the wheel puncture all the time.  

The story also tells the problems with the heater made flames rise on the side of the car, scared the costumers. It seems that the car was put out of traffic within a month. 

 

Thank you so much this information

 

Lars

Lars,

 

You are very welcome and I am very happy I could help with your project. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

I would like to thank you for sharing additional information about the history of these early Norway vehicles. I enjoy reading any of this early history involving actual steam car usage at that time. If you have any other information about them, I would enjoy reading about it.

 

I will provide a little more info about Conrads in my response to Al as follows.

 

Ron

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On 1/12/2021 at 9:19 AM, alsfarms said:

Ron and Lars, Do you happen to know history on the Denmark Conrad?  Technically, how does the Conrad compare with the Locomobile of the same vintage?

Al

Hi Al,

 

How did Locomobile and Conrad compare?

 

The Locomobile was a much more highly polished vehicle, most likely more reliable as it was more refined due to the much higher production numbers. They set many records. First car up Mt Washington, first to drive from Buffalo to New York city 500 miles and many others. All the metal parts were Nickle plated, causing Rudyard Kipling to label them "The Nickel plated fraud" apparently he wasn't fond of the little steamer. Their problems: Too lightly built and easily damaged on the very early rough roads with tree stumps in them. The bodies broke down as the engine and boiler were simply mounted on wood crossmembers. If one looks at the early body it resembles a crate, and I wonder if that is where the slang term for early cars came from "Crate".

 

The Conrads were less polished and from what I can tell more crudely built, but they were built stronger. And heavier. The one feature that made them far superior to the Locomobile was the angle iron subfframe (as pictured) inside the body that the boiler and engine mounted on. This strongly supported that mounting and also supported the wood body along its length to prevent it failing in the middle like Locomobile and others did. There was far less nickle plating and more painted parts. Their problems: Likely less refined as Lars alludes to about fire flaring up the side and scaring the occupants, the burner was likely a poor design and not enough time had been spent resolving issues, and it may have been operator poorly trained as well. The burner is one of the most problematic and critical aspects of these early steam cars. The steering geometry on the Conrads is unusual too and some of the components like the knuckles are too lightly built.

 

If I had to pick one to show off : Locomobile

Pick one to drive and rely on: Conrad.

 

The Denmark Conrad is in their transportation museum and I am pals with the curators, we have never discussed the history of this vehicle only many of it's features. I will ask them about it. They have been very helpful with our restoration and we are grateful for that.

 

Ron

 

IMG_0520 (Medium).JPG

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, alsfarms said:

I can see that the Conrad is much more substantial.  Nice picture!  Have you made first steam yet?

Al

Yes we fired it up and drove it on the initial assembly. Ran really well

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