1949 Dodge Fluid Drive Question

[John348]

I never played with one of these fluid drive units so help is appreciated. My friend has a 49 Dodge Wayfarer Convertible. He was getting a grinding noise and thought it was the transmission. After listening to it myself and several others as well we felt it was a clutch problem. We took out the transmission and then the torque convertor/flywheel assembly. the surface on the flywheel area needs to be cut with out a doubt! There appears to be two bushings in the torque convertor, one seems to be buried at least 6" down in the convertor. Has any of you ever removed these bushings? Are they available? I will have some pictures later today.

Thanks

[Rusty_OToole]

The bushings are not replaceable without rebuilding the torque converter. [ Later - this is wrong, the bushings can be replaced. I go into more detail in another post below ] I don't think they ever wear out. The seal is replaceable but if it is not leaking best leave it alone. As you have no doubt observed, the clutches on these cars are small, they are not meant to be used much. You drive the car like an automatic. Use the clutch to shift into gear then release the clutch completely and drive away like an automatic. Do not ride the clutch or try to slip it, that is what the Fluid Drive is for.

 

There are other tricks to driving and maintaining these units. There are a couple of long threads from 2008 in the Chrysler section that lay it all out if you want to do a search. They are one of the first automatic drives ever made, and they are very rugged, simple and reliable. Most problems are easy and cheap to fix, like frayed wiring and low on oil, they are the most common problems. If your clutch is burned out that is a sign of abuse, probably by someone who did not understand the Fluid Drive system who tried to drive it like a standard trans, which doesn't work.

 

Chrysler recommended #10 motor oil for the trans and Fluid Drive, but today we use tractor fluid, TDH type, ISO 32 or ISO 22 grade. TDH stands for transmission, differential and hydraulic fluid. It is made for this type of application. ISO22 may be slightly better but ISO32 easier to find. You can buy it at Walmart and auto parts stores in rural areas, and at farm supply stores.

 

Do you have a repair manual?

Edited March 10, 2019 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Dodge offered 2 versions of Fluid Drive. One paired the Fluid Drive unit with a 3 speed manual transmission. The more expensive option had the self shifting M6 transmission as used in DeSoto and Chrysler. Both look like a cast iron manual trans but the self shifter has 3 electrical devices on the right side, a governor a valve and a switch. Do you know which you have?

[John348]

The Cheaper unit, I am going over there later this afternoon The middle bushing seems pretty scored up

Thanks

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

I checked my Chrysler repair manual and it is possible to replace the 2 bushings using Chrysler tool kit C-649 (puller, sleeve, expansion jaw, drift and burnishing tool). This can be done without disturbing the seal but you have to remove the clutch driving plate nut. I presume you have already removed the driving plate to refinish it. Do you have  a manual if not I can copy out the instructions.

 

Later.... It should be possible to remove the bushings without the special tools but putting new ones in and burnishing them is another matter. They are Oilite bushings and should not be reamed. I also don't know how experienced you are as a mechanic and what kind of machine shop or repair shop you have available. I'm pretty sure the right person could make a drift and work around the removing part, not sure about the burnishing.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[c49er]

Just remove the BIG 1-7/8" FD clutch plate nut-bend over the metal locking tab first...... this opens up the area so you can remove the upper and lower bushings.

Be gentle when handling the Fluid Drive unit as there is a copper bellows seal that is flexing a bit now that there is no main shaft installed into the FD unit holding the clutch driven plate firmly in alignment.

If you have access to good tooling ....Snap On, Kent moore etc.. use the correct bushing remover to remove the deep smaller diameter bushing and larger upper "Oilite" bushings. You won't find the original factory Miller Service tool. 

So If you don't have the proper tools you can use two accurately sized wood dowels that fit the bushings or steel round stock.

You  pack thick grease or watered bread down into the bushing... fill it full with no air pockets to top of the bushing being removed.

 Pound the wood dowels or round steel rod down into the bushing till it pops up and is loose. Might require a refill or two of grease.

To find the correct bushings try Roberts , AMS Mopar or Andy Bernbaums.

Install the new bushings with a proper fitting drift.

 

[John348]

Thanks so much, He found a rebuilder here in Ocala Florida that advertised they have been in business since 1953 owned by the same family at the same location. They also state that they rebuild convertors in house, so he is going over today to see if they might be of help. More to come

 

There was an excessive amount of play in both bushings, we set up two dowels the same diameter of the transmission and WOW they were sloppy!

 

[Striped-Gears]

Any idea of the guy in Ocala name and address? I'll be there in Jan and would like to talk to him. Thanks