moran75 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Hi ive attached a close up of my (old) horn relay which has recently been swapped for a new one.. re the electrical connector at the top - will the wires simply pull out complete with the metal parts of the connector for checking/cleaning? Or is there away to open the plastic outer part? They don’t want to budge - albeit with currently only a gentle tug ... while I’m at it where can I get authentic replacement connectors etc - if at all? I Like the idea of keeping the original look if I need to replace.. Note horn doesn’t work , though when wired independently they do. And new relay is good and clicking away - hence moving onto checking connections etc for possible corrosion etc all the best Kev re the connector at the top ...w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Hi Kev, The connector just pulls off, no locks. You could try a little penetrating oil and try to rock the connector from side to side. That will usually loosen them up. If not, try to pry between the connector plastic body and the body of the relay with something like a large flat blade screwdriver. I`m a little confused re your description of the new versus old relay and where you are at in the process but keep in mind just because a relay makes a clicking sound does not necessarily mean it is transferring power. You are on the right track in paying attention to the connections as the horns pull quite a few amps and require good, tight connections and ground. Curious what you are using for a replacement relay. Did you find the original style relay as pictured? Hard to find.... Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Kev, I may have been mislead by the pic of your untouched connector...are you asking about the terminals within the plastic connector body? If so, there is a lock on the metal terminal. It is a little tab which can be released by inserted a terminal removal tool which basically resembles a long very thin screwdriver. I`ve used various methods, even a paper clip will suffice. You will see a small square window in the plastic body of the connector where the tool is inserted. Good luck, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said: Kev, I may have been mislead by the pic of your untouched connector...are you asking about the terminals within the plastic connector body? If so, there is a lock on the metal terminal. It is a little tab which can be released by inserted a terminal removal tool which basically resembles a long very thin screwdriver. I`ve used various methods, even a paper clip will suffice. You will see a small square window in the plastic body of the connector where the tool is inserted. Good luck, Tom many thanks Tom ..that's right- the terminals within the plastic body...i'm up at the car tomorrow, will take a look.. the replacement was from oldbuickparts.com - had to buy complete as part of the junction block. The relay itself is rectangular, but lying on its longest side, if you see what i mean...i'll send a pic for reference tomorrow.. cheers Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 3:25 PM, 1965rivgs said: Kev, I may have been mislead by the pic of your untouched connector...are you asking about the terminals within the plastic connector body? If so, there is a lock on the metal terminal. It is a little tab which can be released by inserted a terminal removal tool which basically resembles a long very thin screwdriver. I`ve used various methods, even a paper clip will suffice. You will see a small square window in the plastic body of the connector where the tool is inserted. Good luck, Tom Hi Tom attached pic of new relay...there is a square plastic moulding visible at top left of relay which isn’t on the original...other than that and shape of relay the junction block looks just the same... anyway, cleaned all connections from relay upto horns ... horns still don’t work... kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) With the 2 wire plastic connector removed use a test light and determine which one of the two male terminals has power. Connect the dark green horn wire to the OTHER terminal. Now connect a jumper wire to the terminal that has power and ground it. This should cause the relay to transfer power to the horns. If it doesnt, either your relay or the dark green wire between the relay and the horns is bad. You can narrow it down at that point by determining if the terminal which you connected the dark green wire to has power when you ground the other terminal. If it doesnt then the relay is bad assuming you are providing a good ground. If it does cause the horns to blow, then you have an issue with the horn bar providing a ground for the relay when actuated/depressed. There are various points at which you can test the white/green stripe wire between the relay and the horn bar. When connected, and if the relay is doing what it should, the white/green stripe wire should have power all the way to the horn contact under the horn bar. You can test for this power at the base of the steering column where there is a connector or pull the horn bar off and check for power at the horn contact. If you have power on the horn contact, grounding the horn contact should trip the relay and blow the horns. If the horns work when you ground the contact but not when the horn bar is installed and actuated then the horn bar is not providing a ground. All sounds much more complicated than it really is...just a simple relay whose control circuit is being grounded by depressing the horn bar. Tom Edited February 20, 2019 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 51 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said: With the 2 wire plastic connector removed use a test light and determine which one of the two male terminals has power. Connect the dark green horn wire to the OTHER terminal. Now connect a jumper wire to the terminal that has power and ground it. This should cause the relay to transfer power to the horns. If it doesnt, either your relay or the dark green wire between the relay and the horns is bad. You can narrow it down at that point by determining if the terminal which you connected the dark green wire to has power when you ground the other terminal. If it doesnt then the relay is bad assuming you are providing a good ground. If it does cause the horns to blow, then you have an issue with the horn bar providing a ground for the relay when actuated/depressed. There are various points at which you can test the white/green stripe wire between the relay and the horn bar. When connected, and if the relay is doing what it should, the white/green stripe wire should have power all the way to the horn contact under the horn bar. You can test for this power at the base of the steering column where there is a connector or pull the horn bar off and check for power at the horn contact. If you have power on the horn contact, grounding the horn contact should trip the relay and blow the horns. If the horns work when you ground the contact but not when the horn bar is installed and actuated then the horn bar is not providing a ground. All sounds much more complicated than it really is...just a simple relay whose control circuit is being grounded by depressing the horn bar. Tom Many thanks Tom... I’m away on hol for a few days tomorrow so will let you know how I get on when I’m back ... in the subject of hols hols if you’re ever in UK with your son in law be sure to let me know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, moran75 said: Many thanks Tom... I’m away on hol for a few days tomorrow so will let you know how I get on when I’m back ... in the subject of hols hols if you’re ever in UK with your son in law be sure to let me know... Planning a trip to England, Ireland, Scottland next year, not sure about the dates yet. I`ll swing by and we can do a heater core...after lunch we can enjoy a few pints! Lol.. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJS Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 hours ago, moran75 said: anyway, cleaned all connections from relay upto horns ... horns still don’t work... Good day. For what it's worth, I recently went through a similar experience on my '64 where one day the horn worked, one day it didn't. I had it in a shop for other work so the mechanic diagnosed a need for a new relay. I ordered the same replacement from oldbuickparts.com, and still no horn. A good solid clicking but no horn. He could get the horn to blow on direct connection, so I talked with oldbuickparts, they said it can happen that sometimes their 'new' relays fail. so we agreed that I bought another one and they would refund the first one once I returned it. So we got the second new relay in, still no horn. We figured that since we had two of them, may as well risk opening one up and check the contacts, etc. I have limited talent for some of this stuff, so this is what I trusted the mechanic to do with the 'new' part. A few days later, after opening it up, did some 'mechanic-magic', he put it back in the car, and bob's your uncle, the horns worked fine. Not sure if this is a common problem with these 'new' after market relays, but he was able to fix at least one of the new ones that didn't work. Might be something to consider Anywho, hope this helps. Good luck... toot toot!! Later, Mike Swick Edmonton, AB ----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 11 hours ago, MikeJS said: Good day. For what it's worth, I recently went through a similar experience on my '64 where one day the horn worked, one day it didn't. I had it in a shop for other work so the mechanic diagnosed a need for a new relay. I ordered the same replacement from oldbuickparts.com, and still no horn. A good solid clicking but no horn. He could get the horn to blow on direct connection, so I talked with oldbuickparts, they said it can happen that sometimes their 'new' relays fail. so we agreed that I bought another one and they would refund the first one once I returned it. So we got the second new relay in, still no horn. We figured that since we had two of them, may as well risk opening one up and check the contacts, etc. I have limited talent for some of this stuff, so this is what I trusted the mechanic to do with the 'new' part. A few days later, after opening it up, did some 'mechanic-magic', he put it back in the car, and bob's your uncle, the horns worked fine. Not sure if this is a common problem with these 'new' after market relays, but he was able to fix at least one of the new ones that didn't work. Might be something to consider Anywho, hope this helps. Good luck... toot toot!! Later, Mike Swick Edmonton, AB ----- Thanks Mike...wouldn’t be surprised - I’ve had a few of these ‘after market’ issues such as an air cleaner that arrived looking like it came out of a Sherman tank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 17 hours ago, 1965rivgs said: Planning a trip to England, Ireland, Scottland next year, not sure about the dates yet. I`ll swing by and we can do a heater core...after lunch we can enjoy a few pints! Lol.. Tom The Grand Tour - no Wales though - might not be a bad thing between me and you... Ireland is fun, especially rural Ireland albeit at a slower pace... got a lot of relatives in County Clare ...and next year gives me plenty of time to get our beer nice and cold...I hear that’s been a problem for our American friends in the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 9 hours ago, moran75 said: ...next year gives me plenty of time to get our beer nice and cold...I hear that’s been a problem for our American friends in the past! The old line is that you like your beer room temperature, but that's not so bad when you consider the temperature of the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 4:59 PM, 1965rivgs said: With the 2 wire plastic connector removed use a test light and determine which one of the two male terminals has power. Connect the dark green horn wire to the OTHER terminal. Now connect a jumper wire to the terminal that has power and ground it. This should cause the relay to transfer power to the horns. If it doesnt, either your relay or the dark green wire between the relay and the horns is bad. You can narrow it down at that point by determining if the terminal which you connected the dark green wire to has power when you ground the other terminal. If it doesnt then the relay is bad assuming you are providing a good ground. If it does cause the horns to blow, then you have an issue with the horn bar providing a ground for the relay when actuated/depressed. There are various points at which you can test the white/green stripe wire between the relay and the horn bar. When connected, and if the relay is doing what it should, the white/green stripe wire should have power all the way to the horn contact under the horn bar. You can test for this power at the base of the steering column where there is a connector or pull the horn bar off and check for power at the horn contact. If you have power on the horn contact, grounding the horn contact should trip the relay and blow the horns. If the horns work when you ground the contact but not when the horn bar is installed and actuated then the horn bar is not providing a ground. All sounds much more complicated than it really is...just a simple relay whose control circuit is being grounded by depressing the horn bar. Tom Hi Tom I follwowed yr instructions and its def the relay...I spoke to oldbuickparts but they avoided committing to sending a new one - I guess at their cost - even if I returned this one. They were a bit ‘vague’ and didn’t respond to emails - I had to call them. obviously the distance involved is a factor for both parties... but it it sounds like relays can be repaired - especially ‘brand new’ ones...so I’ve spoken to the company in the uK who rebuilt my headlight motor who are going to take a look at it. While they are at it I’m going to ask them to look at the original one as well - who knows , would be nice to keep it... this is sounds like it will be easier and cheaper than arguing my case with oldbuickparts.... which makes me wish i had explored this option originally before paying $80 plus shipping/import costs to take place in a lottery ... live and learn! cheers kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 ALL those repro relays are junk. I've gone through this many times.. IF you take the cover off the new relay you will see a broken wire for the coil. Take a strand of copper wire & solder it into place. Repaired. Next??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 15 hours ago, telriv said: ALL those repro relays are junk. I've gone through this many times.. IF you take the cover off the new relay you will see a broken wire for the coil. Take a strand of copper wire & solder it into place. Repaired. Next??? opened it up today - and guess what - exactly as you said... coincidentally oldbuickparts emailed me today actually sounding a bit more concerned about my issue, which is nice! though all things considered i think ill just repair this one.... Cheers Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 On 3/13/2019 at 7:26 PM, telriv said: Let us know how it works out. sorry for late response - been loads going on, got a bit diverted.... anyway, turns out the main culprit was that the points were not working within the relay, so although it clicked when everything was re-soldered the power wasn't being transferred b/w terminals..the chap who rebuilt my clam shell motor sorted it , and for free so all is good! Thanks all for help/info.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 See the second paragraph of my first post....common mistake to make that assumption. Great to hear you sorted things out, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 14 hours ago, 1965rivgs said: See the second paragraph of my first post....common mistake to make that assumption. Great to hear you sorted things out, Tom ...I also asked the same chap if he could repair the original relay, but sadly he couldn’t...I would have loved to keep it with the car ...I’m funny like that, hence reinstating the old beat-up metal air cleaner decal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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