shelbyone

604 Shifting issue

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of course, it never ends...

noticed a slight leak at transaxle rear end cover ( due to a high pressure undercarriage cleaning by "specialists) 

Did not even use the kickdown in months...just drove it very easy and did not race it.

as of today, there was a little clunk when accelerating twice...and it did not shift from 2nd to 3rd. Drove home right away. Fluid was low, ( did not smell burned, no bubbles, normal red color)  topped it off with Mopar ATF 4.

Trans was changed by previous owner in 2011.

Did I kill it? I hope not...

 

 

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5 hours ago, shelbyone said:

of course, it never ends...

noticed a slight leak at transaxle rear end cover ( due to a high pressure undercarriage cleaning by "specialists) 

Did not even use the kickdown in months...just drove it very easy and did not race it.

as of today, there was a little clunk when accelerating twice...and it did not shift from 2nd to 3rd. Drove home right away. Fluid was low, ( did not smell burned, no bubbles, normal red color)  topped it off with Mopar ATF 4.

Trans was changed by previous owner in 2011.

Did I kill it? I hope not...

 

 

I doubt that YOU killed it. It sounds like it went into 'Limp-in' mode, when on the road and this happens, pull over where it is safe and put it in Park & turn off the engine. 

Then just start it up again and try driving it again in the (OD) mode. If it once again goes into 'limp-in' mode, after stopping, turning it off, try driving in the (D) position.

There should be trouble codes from the transmission computer (TCM) which is retrieved by a scan tool using the BLUE connector located behind the removable fuse access cover.

The 604 (41TE) has had it's problems. Hope it is not major, but if it is..... will try to steer you straight.

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8 hours ago, Hemi Dude said:

I doubt that YOU killed it. It sounds like it went into 'Limp-in' mode, when on the road and this happens, pull over where it is safe and put it in Park & turn off the engine. 

Then just start it up again and try driving it again in the (OD) mode. If it once again goes into 'limp-in' mode, after stopping, turning it off, try driving in the (D) position.

There should be trouble codes from the transmission computer (TCM) which is retrieved by a scan tool using the BLUE connector located behind the removable fuse access cover.

The 604 (41TE) has had it's problems. Hope it is not major, but if it is..... will try to steer you straight.

Thanks Hemi, will try...

I just cant believe I drove it with low fluid for a while ; since it does not smell burned or makes grinding noises, I might be lucky if I did not really create internal damage.

will try to check the codes..

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great...wanted to change the rear transmission cover gasket, removed it and found out that it does not fit! so I decided to go for the filter and transmission pan gasket...also both are not a fit!

very upsetting since I ordered the parts from rockauto in my specific 1990 TC section...

 

IMG_4485.jpg

IMG_4490.jpg

IMG_4494 2.jpg

IMG_4495.jpg

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17 minutes ago, shelbyone said:

great...wanted to change the rear transmission cover gasket, removed it and found out that it does not fit! so I decided to go for the filter and transmission pan gasket...also both are not a fit!

very upsetting since I ordered the parts from rockauto in my specific 1990 TC section...

 

IMG_4485.jpg

IMG_4490.jpg

IMG_4494 2.jpg

IMG_4495.jpg

 

You got gaskets and filter for the smaller, 3 speed automatic.  Tell them you have the 41TE transaxle.  Silicone sealer is all you need for both the cover and the pan. It works better than the gaskets as well. Just one thing to remember, WHEN YOU APPLY THE SEALANT, LET IT BEGIN TO CURE FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES  before installing the cover and pan. 

Just get the correct filter.

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10 hours ago, Hemi Dude said:

 

You got gaskets and filter for the smaller, 3 speed automatic.  Tell them you have the 41TE transaxle.  Silicone sealer is all you need for both the cover and the pan. It works better than the gaskets as well. Just one thing to remember, WHEN YOU APPLY THE SEALANT, LET IT BEGIN TO CURE FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES  before installing the cover and pan. 

Just get the correct filter.

that should do it, I suppose....

( did not know that silicone sealer is actually better than gaskets ) 

Screen Shot 2018-08-21 at 11.36.28 AM.png

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RTV is most definitely better than cork gaskets...when it's used correctly. Ultra Black will work OK, but there's a specific sealant used for automatic transmissions. "The Right Stuff" also works VERY well (my personal favorite). Both surfaces have to be clean and DRY. You don't need a lot, but it does need to skim up a little before install. The product will tell you how long that will take. When you put the pans back on make sure the rails are flat and use a torque wrench!

 

BTW, how did the fluid look? How did the magnet in the pan look? It might be worth it to pop the input and output speed sensors out and clean them off. Metal shavings stick to the sensor tip because they are magnetic and can cause issues.

Edited by Reaper1 (see edit history)

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Hey Reaper!  I let the Black RTV dry for a while - it also took forever to apply it carefully. I did not tighten it up yet ( a little more than hand tight) , I will let it sit like this for 9 hours..then I  will appply more pressure and fill it up with ATF4 . It says torque is 165! for the pan and I could not find any numbers for the rear cover.

Fluid was red ( a little darker) did not smell burned, no bubbles, did not spot any shaved metal parts, nothing on the magnet, nothing at the sensors ( cleaned them anyways) killed the new O ring when I tried to make the new filter stick...so I had to use the old one...( I know!!!!) filter only really snapped in at one of the plastic pins..( it stayed in place though) 

I hope I will not have any more shifting issues after this job...

10 hours later - refilled with 4 quarts of ATF+, idle for a minute, shift through all gears and it does not engage into any gear! fluid is bubbly.

no leaks, no noise, sounds normal. will check level again and see if it needs more fluid.

Edited by shelbyone
forgot detail! (see edit history)

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Dumb question, with the engine idling and the gear selector in neutral, what is the fluid level on the dipstick? Even though filter changes and such are only supposed to be 4 quarts, I find they are typically more than that. It may just still be low on fluid.

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level was low - had to add another quart. now it looks like everything is back to normal! I might have to re seal the rear cover since its still leaking a little ATF....( may have waited too long for it to dry a little before putting the cover back on and hand tighted the screws - about 15 minutes) 

Edited by shelbyone
added details (see edit history)

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here's a dumb question...do all V6 have the 41TE Transmission? and do all V6 have a fluid capacity of 9 liters for their transmission? ( 9.5 quarts) 

 

the A413 states 8liters ( 8.5 quarts) 

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For the TC all of the V6's had the 41TE(A604). There is a 3-speed that was available in minivans and "lesser" cars called the A670. It's an A413, but with a different bellhousing and lock-up converter with "Turbo" guts. I honestly can't remember if the capacities are the same, but I don't think so. I think the A604 does use more fluid.

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I wanted to bring this issue to the surface for others that might be having the same problem.  Special thanks to Shelbyone and Reaper1.  I had the same problem in that the transmission did not want to shift into 3rd and of course the RPM's were high.  The transmission input speed sensor and transmission output speed sensor were replace and the problem was solved.  The 2 sensors cost between $20 and $30 dollars each depending on where they are purchased.  My total bill from the mechanics shop was $160.  This TC is a 1991 triple black V6 with the A-604 transmission. 

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Another thing to add is that the connector pins had a nasty habit of becoming loose. The connector may appear OK, but the pins inside might be jacked. There was a TSB on replacing the connectors on the harness to remedy this.

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