Car Identification: 1904 Pungs-Finch (?)

[KenAACA]

Good morning,

 

I was curious about whether the attached Car ID photos (1-5) are perhaps a 1904 Pungs-Finch produced by the Pungs-Finch Auto & Gas Engine Company, Detroit, MI.

 

Except for the flowing lines of the rear fenders, and a few other details, appears to be a 95% match with the 1904 Pungs-Finch five passenger Touring Car.

 

Here’s a 1904 Pungs-Finch (second from bottom on the left): http://www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com/1904.htm

 

Several different models and production years may account for slight differences in the details.

 

May need to find a few more examples, very few Pungs-Finch exist today.

 

Jay Leno owns one of the few remaining Pungs-Finch.

 

Thank you for any interest in this car.

 

Sincerely,

 

Kenneth Sutherland

[8E45E]

Here's a link to a photo of a 1906 Pungs Finch:  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?52564-Orphan-of-the-Day-07-04-1906-Pungs-Finch-Limited

 

Craig

[KenAACA]

There's that 5% DIFFERENCE in the rippling back fenders, the windshield platform, and the radiator; the radiator looks more like a tombstone, very unique!  I haven't seen a complete match of this vehicle with any Pungs-Finch or any other vehicle online.

[nzcarnerd]

The Standard Catalog suggests that Pungs-Finch cars had shaft drive. This one is chain drive.

Edited October 31, 2016 by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

[KenAACA]

That's a big difference! Appears to be a Pungs-Finch, not likely with chain drive though. Will keep checking manufacturers from A to Z, 1900-1910!

Edited October 31, 2016 by KenAACA (see edit history)

[mike6024]

1904 Pungs-Finch

Did you rule out this one? 1904 Maxwell Prototype

1904 Regas Model B has the similar rear fenders, and also chain drive. Otherwise the 'match' is not good.

Edited October 31, 2016 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[KenAACA]

I haven't ruled out anything yet. I was just looking at the Maxwell before I went for a ride earlier today. The 1904 Maxwell Prototype above is very similar with the tombstone radiator and the windshield platform; with the rear fenders from the 1904 Regas Model B that's a near perfect match in appearance. Whether the 1904 Maxwell prototype went into production as a chain or shaft drive is another question; the Maxwell prototype is getting closer to a match though. Thank you!

[KenAACA]

Unless a better match surfaces I think we have a match, especially since "that "swooping" rear fender was only used on the left side to clear the front chain sprocket, and the right side rear fender was just a conventional one."  The 1904 Maxwell Prototype, Brisco-Maxwell Motor Co., Tarrytown, NY and Detroit, MI (1904-1924). Name changed to Chrysler in 1924. From: Early American Automobiles 1904 Models http://www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com/1904.htm 

 

Thank you very much!

[mike6024]

I really don't think that's it. it just seems closer than others. Radiator not quite right, seats are not right, front suspension seems different.

[KenAACA]

The seats are like the 1904 Pungs-Finch (bucket seats front and back, with opening center back seat, maybe for exit). The radiator is closer to the 1904 Maxwell Prototype than others I've seen so far, not a common appearance. I haven't compared the suspension in the photos and drawings. Will keep looking! 

[KenAACA]

Should be interesting! May take a while though. Here's a list of defunct automobile manufacturers of the United States:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States

[nzcarnerd]

The Maxwell was a smaller, lighter car then the mystery car here. And it had a horizontally opposed two cylinder engine, mounted across the frame.

Edited November 1, 2016 by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

[caddyshack]

Looks like a 1904 Thomas Flyer No.22. Can't see the front axel very well, but the body appears the same.

[mike6024]

1904 Thomas Flyer Limousine

It has the radiator alright, and some other details.

[caddyshack]

The Tonneau body on the Thomas has all the same features as picture No. 4. Great pictures by the way. Thanks for posting. 

[Restorer32]

Sure looks like a Thomas to me. There is at least one restored Pungs Finch that is a made up car. Henry Austin Clark detailed in one of his columns back in the day how he cobbled the car together from misc parts. I forget how much of the car was actually Pungs Finch but it wasn't much.

[KenAACA]

We're in the ballpark with the 1904 Thomas Flyer Limousine; the car may have had the same flowing rear fenders on both sides; would look better with the same treatment; don't know whether that served a purpose, i.e., as steps for access. The only major difference is the sheet metal contouring around the rear bucket seats, very unique and stylish, which appears to be the reason for the hatch door in the back, i.e., access to the back seats. For some reason most of the candidates appear to be from 1904; also looks like a vehicle which would have been in the movie, The Great Race (1965). See This Car Matters: Thomas Flyer, winner of the New York to Paris Race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffS8YDFgkTg

[KenAACA]

Appears to be a high class of touring car that the very rich would use to travel from the city to resorts while camping along the way; the well dressed lady drinking from a pail of water in the first picture (no triple-filtered bottled glacier water then (ha)) shows she was accustomed to "roughing it" and picnicking on the way to one of the great Victorian era resorts, i.e., The Kaaterskill Hotel in the Catskills: http://catskillmountaineer.com/history-KH.html

[caddyshack]

This is your auto I believe. 

Thomas Flyer 1904.pdf

[KenAACA]

Looks like the same year, make, and model as the mystery car; think the mystery is solved! Would love to see this car to better understand the size and scale. Looks enormous to me even though the people then were generally a lot smaller than us. I appreciate the help from the Antique Automobile Club of America to identify this amazing car and thank you for membership!