Most Coachbuilders Packard or Duesenberg?

[jeff_a]

Does anyone know which American marque had the most coachbuilders? I would think Packard or Duesenberg, but don't know. This could include custom, semi-custom, and production. 

[alsancle]

I think that would be hard to nail down because of the blurry line on catalog custom vs full custom.  Chrysler's were all carrying LeBaron bodies but they were built in very large series.   Duesenberg only sold chassis so in that sense every one of the 400 odd cars were coachbuilt, although many were part of limited series of almost identical bodies.

[jeff_a]

Thanks for your comments. I don't want to draw any lines between full custom, series-built, a thousand built by Briggs, one-off design studies, the 1941 Clipper with Fitzjohn coachwork my grandfather owned, or in-house. Simply the number of firms making bodies for the carmaker. I was leaning to Duesenberg having more because of the prestige that might wear off on anyone building for Duesenberg....but Packard had its own prestige and a much longer existence.

Edited September 23, 2015 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Packard far and away had more custom body builders than Duesenberg, since they had a much higher presence in foreign countries and the sheer number of Packards vs Duesenbergs is not even comparable.

The total number of custom coachbuilders for Duesenberg is known exactly, and was 29 (14 foreign and 15 domestic).

Packard had at least 41 (~18 foreign and ~23 domestic), and that doesn't include its in-house customs or one-off design studies, or even any of the postwar customs.

Buick: ???

Cadillac (and LaSalle): ~270 (according to http://cadillacdatabase.com/Dbas_txt/Drm_ndex.htm) Obviously the most, considering all of the commercial and postwar vehicles.

 

According to Coachbuilt.com, there are more than 300 coachbuilders that have nailed a shingle as a business.

 

Great question, by the way. Jeff, if you don't mind, I'd like to include your letter in the next issue of AA and see if any of our members can shed a different light on this.

[alsancle]

Reading is obviously not my strong suit.  Thanks West for the correct answer which I agree with.  I read the question as how many chassis got coachbuilt bodies which begs the question of what "coachbuilt" means but not what you asked.

[West Peterson]

Ha! I kind of thought you sped through the original question.

I've asked a Buick historian if there is a general figure known. More than likely, it would also be more than Packard. Like Cadillac, Buick still being in business makes it easy to continue racking up more.

I suspect, though, that if you took out all of the Commercial bodies and just focused on personal-use vehicles, Packard might be the leader.

[jeff_a]

I guess I could have asked which American carmaker has had the greatest number of firms do bodies for them. Thanks for the numbers on Duesenberg, Packard and Cadillac/LaSalle. I was surprised at the big number for Cadillac. Everybody got in on that one. It's fine with me to use the question here in A.A. If you want to go to the Peerless Forum, second page of threads (currently), I keep a running list called "Peerless Coachbuilders" with the tally for Peerless.

[Green37]

Edsel Ford kept the custom coachbuilders alive during the 30's.  "Semi" customs were available for Lincolns from Derham, Judkins, Locke, Willoughby, LeBaron (Dietrich), Brunn, Murphy, Derham, Rollston, Waterhouse and others.  They were built in the "white" and sent to Lincoln to be trimmed by Lincoln's own upholstery shop.  This jives with Edsel's well documented patronization of the arts throughout Detroit.  

One has to remember that unlike Packard and Cadillac, Ford Motor Company had only 2 stock holders, Henry and Edsel.  They answered to no one and proceeded to lose about $500 on every L or K model Lincoln, just to lend a little prestige to the lowly Ford.  

The story of how Henry lost the first Ford Motor Company to Henry Leland who then renamed it "Cadillac" is ironic when considering that Henry bought the Lincoln Motor Company from him some 20 years later in 1922 for pennies on the dollar.  The picture of Henry and Edsel at the Lincoln Motor Company signing the deal is great.  One son looks like the cat that ate the canary, the other totally dejected.

 

http://myautoworld.com/ford/history/company-history/ford-buys-lincoln/ford-buys-lincoln.html

 

http://www.coachbuilt.com

 

http://willoughbycoach.com/StoryDomain_Lincoln.htm

Edited September 24, 2015 by Green37 (see edit history)

[lincolnmatthews]

Thank-you Green37 for your reply, very accurate in my opinion. Edsel Ford was quite a man, he had an eye for design & brought forth many beautiful classic's in the 30's! I have owned & admired the Lincoln's since I was a teenager. But after owning (currently) a V-12 Continental, I want the simplicity of a straight 8, (no dual pt dist, coils, etc). Now I want a Packard!

[jeff_a]

West, are the 29 coachbuilders for Duesenberg just for the "J", or is that figure including the other models and companies like Rubay who built some "A" bodies for the Big D? The Model "J" was such an outstanding car, a lot of people forget that there were 1100+ Duesenbergs built when you include the "A", "X" and others. My Grandfather saw a Duesenberg race in Hutchinson, Kansas in 1916. 

Edited October 1, 2015 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

J models only. Sorry.

[jeff_a]

No worries. I thought I should put in a word for the Mod. "A" 'cause if I didn't, Ivan Saxton would.

Not that I don't like Mod. "J"s: last Friday I spent 3 hours sitting in front of a local one doing a pen-and-ink sketch.

Edited October 1, 2015 by jeff_a (see edit history)