Identify this engine!

[Gary_Ash]

I'd like to pin down the date of manufacture and what car an engine came from:

Casting date: K.10.26

Casting number 173801

and a serial number that looks more like a car serial number than an engine serial number: 6003623. I was expecting a serial number starting with P

It's a large straight 8, 313 or 337 cu in. I'm hoping that the K year was in the range 1931-33. I'll have the owner look for a different serial number. Where is it located on the President 8 blocks? Is the 173801 casting number from a head or a block?

Here's a photo of the engine, but I have reason to believe that the block is not original to the car.

[dictator27]

Can't help with the casting number, but if 6003623 is a serial number it would be in line with the 1928 FA which had a number range from 6000001 to 6013000.

Terry

[studerex]

Gary, go to the ASC review volume 39 number 2, page 32 for details on casting dates. The k is 31 but the motor in the photo has a 28 manifold. The engine serial number is stamped on a ledge at the front of the block. the same surface that the head bolts to.

[studerex]

I'll check the casing numbers when in the shop today. 10 26 31 late production could be a 32 motor with the welded on counterweights. Good and rare motor.

[studerex]

Gary, the casting numbers are this. 157457 is 29 and 30, 171031 are 31 and 173801 are 32. I don't have a 33 around to check. If you don't buy it let me know.

[Gary_Ash]

OK, the picture starts to come together. Everything points to this being the original engine block from 1932 Indy car #18, rebodied and renumbered as #9 for the 1933 race. Indy car #9 was shipped by Studebaker to South Africa in 1935, raced there as #9 (and other numbers) through 1959. The body and chassis were scrapped (i.e, gone, destroyed, beyond recapturing), but the engine block was later installed in a 1928 7-passenger limousine in Zimbabwe, would have been an FA or FB car. The car recently re-surfaced in South Africa, has been bought, and is due to be shipped to the UK. This explains the 1928 manifold, as they wouldn't have installed the four carb set-up when switching the block to the sedan with a clapped-out engine. So, how many 1928 7-passenger FA limousines do you think got shipped to South Africa and Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) that survived through the 1950s and got a 1932 engine block? I'm thinking: just one!

I'll try to get a better engine serial number. I would expect a number between P-10000 and P-12500, according to my parts catalog. The Indy engines were "supposed" to be stock sedan blocks, but there are rumors of minor changes made just for the race engines. Does the 173801 casting number appear on regular 1931-32 engines?

Here's #9 in South Africa in 1935:

[rbk]

Gary

The former president of our Blackhawk chapter was born in Zimbabwe to Dutch South African immigrants.

His Father operated the Studebaker garage in Harare.

If you need a man on the ground that loves Studebakers email me for his contact info.

Robert Kapteyn

studebaker@mac.com

[studeq]

Does the 173801 casting number appear on regular 1931-32 engines?

No. The 173801 casting was used on the stock 1932 and 1933 Presidents. The number 171031-2 will be found on the '31 Presidents. New blocks were created just for the '33 Indy cars, they carried the casting number 180607. Incidentally that 180607 is shown as the actual part number for the block in the Studebaker part number sequencing. So far as I know the only one surviving with this casting number is the Grasis car #34. Augie Jr. has removed that engine and is currently running a 364 c.i. Pierce Eight for vintage racing events. Rex can give you details on how the '33 racing blocks differed from the production version. I can tell you that the displacement was the same but the block was slightly modified to accommodate the magneto and the oil filler was relocated.

The engine then in the '28 President you have found may have indeed been removed from the '33 Indy car sent to South Africa but it wasn't the engine used in the car for the '33 race.

[Gary_Ash]

Late breaking news: Peter Gillespie, who drove the 1929 President in the Paris-Peking race, appeared on the scene in South Africa this week, made an offer that couldn't be refused, and will be the new owner of the 1928 limousine! We'll have to wait to hear what Peter plans to do with the car.

So, if it isn't one of the 1933 race engines, it may have been set up for a magneto anyway, like the 1932 cars. Maybe the "more than they promised" people slipped one of the old 1932 engines into the car before shipping it, or built another one. Here is a picture of Tex Kingon, who owned the car in the 1950s, with his hands in the engine compartment of the race car. If the engine had a distributor, I would expect to see it just to the side between carbs #2 and #3 at the middle of the block. I can't see one, but maybe someone else can. If the engine was modified for the magneto, there might still be evidence at the front of the block, even if many parts from the original 1928 engine, including the distributor, were put on the bare 1932 block. The photo at the top of this thread shows how high the distributor would be. Once we know the actual block serial number, the history of the engine might be determined.