starting problems

[olympic]

Two weeks ago, we took the 11B to a local event. Got home after dark, so had to use the lights. Stopped at Mark's house and dropped everybody off. Went to re-start the engine and no go. Battery is turning the engine over like mad, but no firing. Mark got some starting fluid and that didn't work. It is only a few hundred feet from Mark's house to Marydel Rd. and Marydel is downhill to my house. Eddie and Mark pushed, Eddie suggested popping the clutch, Mark wasn't sure that would work. As soon as I turned onto Marydel and got rolling, I popped the clutch. Engine started immediately. So, I put the battery on a tender for a few days. Tonight I had the 11B out and came home just at dusk, had the parking lights on. Parked up on Marydel's slope and turned off engine. Opened up house and garage and then back up hill and see if Herbert would start. Nope! Same as before, engine spinning like crazy but no go. Put Herb in gear, took off hand brake and got him rolling. Popped clutch, engine starts. Put Herb away. Checked the log book, battery is 10 years old. Just before the 2011 Trek, Eddie and I made a bracket and moved the coil inside on the dash. This eliminated all the problems we had been having with coils over heating. I felt the coil tonight and it was pretty warm. So I am not sure if I am looking at a new battery or a new coil. Any thoughts??? Dave

[RansomEli]

Have your battery checked out via a load test. A ten-year old battery would be my first suspect.

[odyssey]

Dave-

The battery would probably be the last item on my list if it turned the engine over nicely during the no-start.

Popping the clutch worked though.....

battery spins engine over like crazy...

does it feel like its spinning faster than during a cold start?

It sounds like perhaps it is firing, but not well enough to catch.

What happens if you try to duplicate this,and when it will not start, let it sit for 20 minutes with the hood open- will it then start?

When was the last time the valves were adjusted? How does compression feel on the hand crank? Even? When HOT?

Have you ever had an engine (on any car) start when you knew you had a low battery, and the engine cranked slowly, but it finally caught and roared to life? I would not suspect the battery on your car.

You might Try some more tests and let us know.

Tom

[TexasJohn55]

Here I go again, out of my area of knowledge on your particular model.............

If it spins over good but won't fire, is it getting power to the ignition in crank mode? It obviously is when you key on and pop the clutch. Is the starter circuit on a seperate button or on the ignition switch? I don't understand why you are losing ignition on cranking. You will need to check coil voltage while cranking, maybe you are losing voltage or dropping very, very low. Clue me in on how the system is wired. Thanks, John

[olympic]

Well, Tom and TexasJohn, here we go again. The 27 is still acting up. I have a new battery installed. Took a drive in it today and came home and shut it off. Started again but not as quickly as I think it should. Drove down to a station for some petrol. This station has a sloped parking lot, just in case. Sure enough, it won't start. Battery is spinning the engine but no ignition. Got it rolling, popped the clutch, took 3 attempts, this time. Came home, shut engine off and tried a restart. Nothing. Got my small wrenches and put in coil number 3. Coil number 2 was hot to the touch. Tried a restart, nothing again. Got her rolling, popped clutch and took 4 attempts to get her running. Put it back into the garage. I'm disgusted. I'm going to pop the distributor car and check for excessive oil. Also will put a meter on the coil and see if I'm losing voltage somewhere. I worked on a 25 11A once and it would shut off when running and the problem was the ignition switch. I'll look at that too. This seems to be my summer of discontent. nothing but car problems. I have coil number 4, I may try that too. Dave

[TexasJohn55]

We lost some posts didn't we.

I think we already discussed valve lash and condensor for points? Loss of compression from tight valves will let it spin over quickly but you won't hear the compression bounce and starter get loaded on each cylinder. It will kind of "skip through" when the cylinder has low compression and the starter noise will be different from one cylinder to the next.

[odyssey]

Hi Dave -

This problem has a simple solutuion- we need to approach it methodically to find it.

Questions first:

How far was the 1st drive of the day - where you brought it back home and it started harder than you thought it should?

Once you got it going by popping the clutch, how did it run on the way home?

How far was it from the gas station to home?

Is the engine still spinning over FAST during no-start? Does it sound faster than when starting cold?

Is the ammeter working?

if so - Does it show a discharge when you flip the ignition toggle?

Does it 'bounce' between some discharge and not as you crank the engine with the ignition toggled on?

You say "Battery is spinning, but no ignition" - have you checked for spark?

Answers to the above will help zero in.

In the meantime, next time it will not start, get some help and pull the center high tension coil wire from the center of the distributor cap and hold it close to ground, then crank and check for actual spark.

If you have spark (or not) from the coil into the distributor, we can troubleshoot from there.

tom

[scott12180]

Quick thought --- I had an 11-A for a number of years which exhibited the same problem on occasion.

Depending on how warm it is, depending on the gasoline you are using, depending on if the float in your carburetor needs adjustment, depending on the valve adjustment . . . .

What happened to me was simply vapor lock. When the engine is shut off with the engine hot from running, it often was difficult to restart. Even the old-time books described this, and Franklin did as well for the Series 9. When shutting off a hot engine, gasoline "builds up" in the carburetor creating a super-rich condition which prevents combustion. (Exact technical details unknown at present).

What I learned to do is to crank the engine with the ignition OFF for several seconds. Then while the starter is still working, flip the ignition switch. The engine always started. The alternative is as Tom suggested is to open the hood let everything cool off. Then try again.

I own a 10-B car now with the Wilkinson carburetor and needle-valve adjustment on the dashboard. When I got the car, I had the same problem of it not starting when hot until I learned to always shut the car off by closing the needle valve. Then to restart the car, always start the car with the needle valve OFF or closed ! As soon as it fires, I open the needle valve to the running setting. Always works. I wished at the time that the Stromberg carburetor had a dashboard needle valve !

Anyway, just a quick thought. Good luck.

--Scott Dwyer