WHAT IS THE BEST SEALER FOR WOOD BODIES AND WOOD SPOKE WHEELS IN ARID ENVIRONMENTS?

[Guest brass-is-class]

A pre-1916 rebuilt all-wood touring body and new wood spoke wheels (by Calimer's) are sitting in the northeast, bare wood and untouched. These items will be shipped to the arid southeastern U.S. What is the best sealer to use to PREVENT CRACKING due to moisture loss?

I've heard of products being used such as Smith's Clear Penetrating Epoxy, The West System Epoxy, System Three Epoxy, automotive epoxy primer like PPG's DP series of epoxy primer, etc.

I've also heard that 3M company Scotch-Weld 1838 B/A, Green Epoxy Adhesive (also known as Green Goo or Green Snot) can be used to seal or fill the joints between the spokes on the hub end and also around the felloe end, making a very thin fillet of material in these joints. Also used to make a small fillet between the felloe and rim. Supposedly, this will prevent the paint from cracking in these joints. Especially if the car is frequently driven or used on tours. I've heard the Green Epoxy Adhesive cures hard. There is a translucent version that is flexible when cured, Scotch-Weld 2216 B/A. Has anyone used these materials for this application with success?

What are the major restoration houses using? What does McPherson College recommend?

Any comments from someone who has had a successful experience would be appreciated!

- Gary Smith

Edited June 11, 2013 by brass-is-class (see edit history)

[Friartuck]

Gary,

A product that I've used glueing and sealing wood is Kwik Poly Home Page Kwik Poly is a Polyol using two agents, a base and a catalyst. When first mixed has a viscosity of water and penetrates well into wood fibers. Its ability to absorb into wood is what I like about it. I have used it to bolster rotted wood or wood areas where numerous nails have weaken it (like around a seat edge that's been nailed or stapled many times). I also use it for setting blind nuts when rebuilding wooden body parts. Epoxy products like West System which are good as an adhesive are thick and will result in a lot of sanding for your purpose. KP cures in minutes which will be difficult to apply in large batches, though a chilled mixture will prolong the cure time. I suppose its possible to spray it with a cheap spray gun from Harbor Freight (top cup HVLP is $15) and immediatly imerse it in lacquer thinner to clean it and ready for the next batch. I admit this is a long shot using KP this way. Another avenue to pursue is the furniture trade. Look up Klingspor Wood Workers supply in the Carolina's and get referals for sealing bare wood. I've shot PPG DP series and am happy with it over metal, but never thought to try it over wood. I just looked at the PPG-DP Data Sheet and its rated for metals and fiber glass, but no mention of wood. On your project I think I would use the KP on the wood spokes (either sprayed or brushed) and find a sprayable sealer for the body.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Friartuck (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

Most epoxies are easily broken down by ultraviolet. Once you've sealed the wood, you must cover it with something UV-resistant. If you want to show off the beauty of the wood, you'll use some sort of clear varnish. Every couple of years you'll need to sand it down and put on another coat or two.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Durant Mike]

I just finished completely dismantling and refinishing my wheels and wooden spokes on my Durant a couple of months ago. I did a lot of research and the general thoughts were not to use any polyurethane or epoxy finish on them. Many much wiser than met lent their opinion on allowing to wood to expand and contract on its own with varying moisture conditions. I choose a varnish used by many boat restorers that provided a hard, durable finish that was not effected by UV as much. Many people who used it on their boats swore by it. It was easy to put on, as long as you are not in a rush and it looks great to me. I went to Jamestown Distributors and purchased the Epifanes High Gloss Marine Varnish. It worked for me.

[Friartuck]

I guess a good question to ask at this point is what or how does wood breathe with one coating like varnish and doesn't with other coatings like epoxy. I do agree that wood spokes should be allowed to swell-expand as weather/temp permits. I'd like to seperate fact from myth.

[nickelroadster]

I have had very good luck with both Kwik Poly and smiths clear penetrating epoxy sealer. smith's is quite slow and takes 24 hours to cure and can be painted with your choice of paints as it provides a good tooth for paint to grab on to. Kwick Poly works equally well but is not as good for large areas due to it's rapid cure rate. I suspect that Smith's would penetrate a little deeper because of the slow cure time Both work well under an automotive clear coat which will be more durable than a varnish. If you are going to paint the wheels any of the automotive epoxy primers will work well and some will provide some body that will fill the grain of the wood.

It is almost impossible to seal wood where it doesn't breath somewhat. A sealer would slow down the breathing and prevent the wood from drying out completely and cracking. Any of the sealers is going to be different than the old days where if your wheels dried out too much you drove the car into the creek and let the wheels absorb water to swell and tighten up.

[Guest]

My "Jaxon" wheels were varnished from the factory, sometime between 1930 and 1959 (99,000 miles) my Grandfather had painted them. In 1962 I stripped off all the paint, removed the hubs and drums to completely sand the wood and re-varnished with a marine spar varnish. I recoated this again a few years later and in 1976 used a polyurethane finish. In the next ten years I tried various polyurethane finishes with poor success. Perhaps the fact that I drive my car in all weather -50 degrees to +110 degrees and in rain snow sleet or whatever caused all these "plastic" finishes to peel. In 1985 I went back to marine spar varnish and give them a light sanding and a recoat about every ten years. At 83 years of age (June 6) and 499,000 miles they are still solid and although not show quality right now a little sandpaper and a pint of varnish would make them look like new.

[nickelroadster]

Use of a sealer like west's or quik poly will give whatever topcoat you have a decent "tooth" to grab on to and you shouldn't have any peeling problems if it is prepped right. Marine spar varnish is perfectly fine although you would probably have to re coat on occasion. I believe Tinindian drives the hell out of his car and you may not have to do it as frequently as he. A good catalyzed urethane clearcoat should last much longer although it will be more expensive to purchase. A marine varnish can also be applied with a brush whereas I would not use a brush with an automotive clear.

[Terry Bond]

Gary, I'm just now finishing up some wheels for a Model T. I've done them before and had great results from West System. It goes on easy (but work quickly!) and flows out nicely. Best of all, it sands like a dream! I gave it one good coat, sanded with 240 to level it, smoothed with 400, then primed w/conventional automotive primer. After another sanding and some touch up with fine paper, topcoated with black acrylic and a hardner. Looks beautiful right out of the gun and is very durable.

In reference to the question above re "swelling" of the wood, it won't happen as the wood used in making wheels is very dense with tight grain. Bill Calimer did my wheels and I know he kiln dries them to a specific moisture content that is pretty stable once topcoated. I won't have to worry about recoating them in my life-time unless I let a tire iron slip and chip something. I know of several folks who have also used this resin/hardner coating on wood bodies with good results. It's used extensively in marine repair, boat-building, etc. Drop in at your local marine supply business and talk with them about it, or get their users/tech manual for info.

Terry