Chalmers ignition timing

[racer2_uk]

Hi everybody, I am trying to find information on timing my 1913 Chalmers model 17, 4 cylinder engine.

Does anybody have any idea of what it should be set at ?

Thanks

Andy

[Layden B]

On some cars the flywheel is marked for valve timing but ignition timing is usually just after TDC when fully retarded.

[racer2_uk]

Thank you Layden B for your very fast reply, I initially set the timing to TDC on fully retarded and get a good tickover but the Splitdorf mag doesn't seem to give much advance so I think I might do a few test settings.

Andy

[Layden B]

Always be careful of going before TDC as it could kick backwards and break your arm when handcranking!

[Rusty_OToole]

As Layden pointed out you should not go too far with advancing the timing. TDC when fully retarded is good. Engines of 1913 have extremely low compression, probably 4 or 4.5 to 1. You may find it runs better if you add kerosene, stove oil or diesel fuel to the gas. Some users report easier starting, smoother running, more power, cooler running, and better mileage on heavier fuel. Up to 25% . Try 10% to start, experiment until you find a mix your car likes best.

[racer2_uk]

Hi gents,

Thanks for the tips, I am now running TDC full retarded and it seems to be going well, no kick back on starting is evident, I am still trying different settings on the Rayfield carb, it seems to run much better when at speed but when set towards the weaker end and I lift off the throttle to change gear I get carb spit back quite badly.

Also this carb is not plumbed in to the cooling system for heating, would this improve this problem ? do you guys run heated carbs ?

Thanks again for your help.

Andy

Edited April 18, 2013 by racer2_uk
spelling (see edit history)

[Layden B]

Three ways to do heating.

1. Intake manifold, usually a double walled water heated aluminum casting

2. Carburetor, carb itself has a water heated body

3. Supply air from a stove on the exhaust manifold

I think that heating the supply air works best and is easy to add to a system that has no current heat. It doesn't take much but can be very effective especially on cooler days. ( make that cool wet climates, sound familiar?)

Yes many early cars run heat and the others probably should.

[keiser31]

What a sweeeeeet car you have there!

[Layden B]

Oh yes...Great car and as for running it should be a winner!

[racer2_uk]

Thank you for your kind words everybody, I am learning about the car all the time, any Chalmers info is appreciated as I think there is only 3 or 4 Chalmers in the UK and I have not seen any of them.

Do you guys have the air start system working ? I have had a new air tank made for safety, but can't get the Kellog pump to work, it turns over when engaged but no compressed air, also when testing the system from the workshop compressor I get a lot of leaking from the air valves when actuated, am I doing something wrong.

Layden B, we know wet and damp very well here ! thank you.

Andy

[Rusty_OToole]

Spitting back suggests a lean mixture. The carb heat was important when your car was new because of the low quality of the gas.It had a lot of kerosene in it and was hard to vaporize.

Let me explain. When the petroleum industry first started in the late 19th century the big seller was coal oil, kerosene or paraffin lamp oil. Gasoline or naptha was not of much use. There was some demand for gas stoves and gas lamps, as for example Coleman lanterns and stoves. And it was used for dry cleaning and as a spot remover for grease spots on hats and clothes.

But a lot of gasoline was simply dumped because there was no sale for it.

At this time refiners put as much of the lighter elements as they dared, into the lamp oil. In those days lamp oil had a piercing odor and lamp explosions were not unknown.

Early in the auto era, gasoline or petrol was very light. One motorist from 1899 reported filling the tank on his DeDion 3 wheeler on returning from a journey. The next time he went to use it, 2 or 3 days later, he noticed that he had forgotten to put the cap back on and that it was empty. All the fuel had evaporated. The tank held half a gallon or a gallon.

By 1913 everything was vice versa. Gas lights and electric lights were making oil lamps redundant. The big demand was for gasoline. So, the refiners went the other way. They put all the heavier ends into the gasoline.

This was well known at the time. Many car makers were forced to reduce their compression ratios to accommodate the new low grade fuel. Ford did this in 1909. Engines required hot spots, water heated or exhaust heated manifolds and even electric heaters were tried to get the fuel to vaporize. The next step was long stroke engines to give the fuel time to burn.

Some years later the cracking process was invented. This allowed refiners to turn the heavier ends into gasoline by a chemical process. After that octane and fuel quality began to improve . Late in the twenties, leaded gas became available allowing higher compression engines.

But 1913 represented a low point in motor fuel quality. Today it is just the opposite. Because fuel injection cars keep the fuel under pressure, and vaporize it in the cylinder, the demand is for light fuel that vaporizes easily. This is why owners of older cars have so much trouble with vapor lock especially in hot climates.

This is why I suggest your car could benefit from some heavy ends or kerosene, stove oil or diesel in the gas.

As far as the carburetor goes it sounds like it is running too lean. An old time mechanic from the updraft carb era (before acceleration pumps) told me the engine should "bark" when you open the throttle suddenly. If is hesitates or poohs out, it is too lean. If it blubbers and takes up slowly it is too rich. Also you should get a small puff of smoke out the exhaust.