My new 1946 chrysler convertible

[Guest 46winnydrop]

Hi,

My name is Donny

I live in Franklin Wisconsin.

I recently acquired this 1946 Chrysler Windsor convertible.

I plan on restoring this car back to original.

The car was dismantled already when I picked it up.

I tried to get the engine to start, I believe it to be original. Stamped c38 on the side.

It wouldn’t start with good fuel supply and spark, the compression was all over the place so i removed the head and found evidence of the head gasket leaking between cylinders, a hole in the side of #1 piston, and rust all over the valves of #4. So i decided to rebuild the engine. Witch leads me to my question.

The cylinder head does not have the word "Spitfire" embossed in the casting.

And the carburetor is also not like others I have seen. The carburetor is missing the electrical connections for the "magnetic dash pot" that is shows in my manual. It says Stromberg on it. I just want to know for sure if these parts are original before I spent time and money including them in the restoration.

Are these original parts?

I need to snap some more pics of the carburetor and cylinder head, but in the meantime, enjoy these pictures of my car. Thanks

[StillOutThere]

Looks like a great project for you Donny, a good place to start. We all have to sort out what parts may have been changed over the decades since our cars were new; that's part and parcel of the hobby. You will enjoy this one. Congrats on the purchase.

[Rusty_OToole]

Hi Donny. If your car has the original engine the serial number should be C38XXXX. Engine number located on the engine block, at the top edge of the block, near the front, left side, above the generator. It is stamped on a raised pad on the block.

Original carburetor Carter B&B EX1-2. Carb number stamped on the web on the front of the carb above the float bowl. There are several B&B carbs that will work, as long as they have the 2 electrical switches for the transmission control. One on the front and one on the back.

So, the engine is original but the carburetor is not. The transmission will not work unless you find the correct Ball and Ball model Carter carburetor. Variations of his carb were used on all Chrysler and DeSoto cars from 1946 to 1954. You could look up The Carburetor King, he posts here regularly and is an old carburetor expert. He should be able to supply a rebuilt carb and may take your old Stromberg as a trade in.

[Rusty_OToole]

For engine parts try Vintage Power Wagons, certain model Power Wagons had the same engine as your car. I know they have NOS pistons on sale for $75 a set of 6. They have other parts as well.

Most parts are available through your local parts stores like NAPA if they can only find the right part number to order them. Or you could try Roberts Motor Parts or Andy Bernbaum.

[Guest 46winnydrop]

Thanks for all the invaluable info, guys.<O:p</O:p

I put a carter Ball&Ball D6u on it to try and get it started, it was off of a 54 Plymouth parts car. I didn’t realize how close I was with that carb.

<O:p></O:p>

The carburetor that was on it I believe is a Stromberg BXVD-3 1 Barrel Carburetor. I never cleaned the decades of grime off of it yet.

<O:p></O:p>

The pistons I will most likely order a set of nos oversized ones from antique power wagons. that looks like the best deal out there. I have yet to disassemble the bottom end of the engine to figure out what parts I need in there. I need to get some other projects off of the workbench first.

<O:p></O:p>

I’m still concerned about the cylinder head though. Like i said others i have seen have the word "spitfire" embossed in the casting. If it is not original to my car maybe it is for someone elses car.

Here are pictures

<O:p></O:p>

[c49er]

The head is off of...

Chrysler up to 1941, DeSoto up to 1950 or Misc Dodge truck 1-1/2 ton to 2 ton certain models 1947-53.

[Guest 46winnydrop]

Ok i know its been a while sence i posted. I have been verry busy, but i have still found time to work on the car. Between now and my last post, i managed to dissasemble the whole engine, clean, label and mark everything. Took the block, crank and pistons to the machine shop for inspection. The block is not cracked, however the valve seats are pitted. The cylinders were already .025 worn out. The crank was about .010 out on mains and rods. The rods were in good shape but the pin bushings were warn. So i ordred .060 pistons, .020 main and rod bearings. some freeze plugs and some other asorted parts.

The block is being bored as i type this, but were still a little unclear on the final dimension. The re-pop book i ordered off ebay says that the piston to wall clearance for refinish is .0008 . My machinest recomended going .0025, over 2 times the size that the book says. But he told me to look around and see what others had done. I know were quite literaly splitting hairs.

Does anybody that has been down this road have any sudjestions?

Pics to follow.

[hilgretasmom1]

I have bumpers, steering wheel chrome pieces,glove compartment lock, clock that will fit your car. If interested let me know.

Ok i know its been a while sence i posted. I have been verry busy, but i have still found time to work on the car. Between now and my last post, i managed to dissasemble the whole engine, clean, label and mark everything. Took the block, crank and pistons to the machine shop for inspection. The block is not cracked, however the valve seats are pitted. The cylinders were already .025 worn out. The crank was about .010 out on mains and rods. The rods were in good shape but the pin bushings were warn. So i ordred .060 pistons, .020 main and rod bearings. some freeze plugs and some other asorted parts.

The block is being bored as i type this, but were still a little unclear on the final dimension. The re-pop book i ordered off ebay says that the piston to wall clearance for refinish is .0008 . My machinest recomended going .0025, over 2 times the size that the book says. But he told me to look around and see what others had done. I know were quite literaly splitting hairs.

Does anybody that has been down this road have any sudjestions?

Pics to follow.

[Rusty_OToole]

Quote from Chrysler factory repair manual:

The clearance between the high spot of the piston skirt contour, about 1/4" from the bottom of the piston, and the cylinder wall should be .0005" to .0010". The fitting should be done at normal room temperature (70* F) before the piston has been assembled to the rod.

This clearance can be checked by using .002" feeler stock, 1/2" wide, and long enough to reach down into the bore the full length of the piston. The piston should be completely inserted upside down into the cylinder. The feeler stock should be placed between the piston and cylinder wall on the high spot of the piston contour. Draw out the feeler stock with a spring scale. The amount of pounds pull required to withdraw the feeler stock should be between 5 and 7 pounds for all models.

(an illustration shows measuring the high spot at 90* to the pin bores, 1/4" from the bottom of the piston).

Do not bore the cylinders any bigger. The pistons are specially contoured to fit tight with no slap when cold and take up expansion without tightening when hot.

Your engine originally came with a Spitfire head. These were used on Chrysler only, from the late 40s to 1954. It does not mean anything very significant. Spitfire was just a name they came up with for their 6 cylinder engine, like Firepower V8, Oldsmobile Rocket, Chevrolet Blue Flame 6, Buick Dynaflash 8, etc.

But they do look cool especially if you pick out the Spitfire and lightning bolt in red on your silver engine.

Evidently someone changed your head at some time. You may be able to hunt up an old Spitfire head but if not, the head you have will work just as well.

About the carburetor. Your car requires a special Carter B&B carburetor with 2 built in electrical switches. The switches are for the transmission, it will not shift correctly without them.

46-48 cChrysler requires model EX1-2, EV1-2 OR E7A1. Which is for your car I'm not sure but suspect one of them is for the straight eight model.

If you look up The Carburetor King he can help you. He posts on here regularly, answering difficult carburetor questions.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest 46winnydrop]

Thanks rusty for providing the "correct" response.

I also found that quote in my Chrysler shop manual.

But .0010, in reality, is small than the thickness of a human hair.

Considering the machining practices, design, and the metallurgy of the day, .0010 seems aweful close.

Witch is how my machinist explained it to me, and i thank him for passing on the knowledge.

I found further reassurance in his claims with the "collector car restoration bible" by Matt Joseph and i quote "Years ago, piston-to-cylinder clearance was measured with a blade micrometer (long feeler gauge) and a pull scale. This procedure gave a fair indication of piston skirt clearance, but fell short of modern measuring and specification capabilities."

My machinist uses a micrometer and a dial bore gauge to find the true distance between. The block is bored already, and i gave the go-ahead to hone it to its final dimension of .0025 between the piston and cylinder wall.

Thanks again for the informative response.

Edited September 16, 2012 by 46winnydrop
punctuation (see edit history)

[Guest 46winnydrop]

Having trouble finding .020 oversized (undersized) connecting rod bearings for a reasonable price. Looking for nos chrysler or aftermarket.Thanks

[c49er]

Try EGGE Machine or Terrill Machine. Ya gotta pay to play with the old Chryslers! Lucky it's not a straight or hemi-major$$$$!

[Rusty_OToole]

Thanks rusty for providing the "correct" response.

I also found that quote in my Chrysler shop manual.

But .0010, in reality, is small than the thickness of a human hair.

Considering the machining practices, design, and the metallurgy of the day, .0010 seems aweful close.

Witch is how my machinist explained it to me, and i thank him for passing on the knowledge.

I found further reassurance in his claims with the "collector car restoration bible" by Matt Joseph and i quote "Years ago, piston-to-cylinder clearance was measured with a blade micrometer (long feeler gauge) and a pull scale. This procedure gave a fair indication of piston skirt clearance, but fell short of modern measuring and specification capabilities."

My machinist uses a micrometer and a dial bore gauge to find the true distance between. The block is bored already, and i gave the go-ahead to hone it to its final dimension of .0025 between the piston and cylinder wall.

Thanks again for the informative response.

That is why they went to so much trouble to design a piston that would automatically compensate for heat expansion. But if you think your machinist knows more about designing a motor than the whole Chrysler corporation by all means let him do it his way.

Fitting the pistons loose probably won't do much harm. It may shorten the life of the engine a bit.

[Guest 46winnydrop]

That is why they went to so much trouble to design a piston that would automatically compensate for heat expansion. But if you think your machinist knows more about designing a motor than the whole Chrysler corporation by all means let him do it his way.

Fitting the pistons loose probably won't do much harm. It may shorten the life of the engine a bit.

All automotive pistons are designed to compensate for heat expansion, also all automotive pistons are elliptically ground. The pistons i have are NOS, circa 1963 Chrysler corp. When measured it turned out that they vary in diameter by .0005. Not very accurate compared to modern parts.

The procedure outlined in the Chrysler manual from the day, says that you're supposed to deduce a distance of .0005, to .0010, using a feeler gauge that is .0020 thick, based on how many pounds it takes to remove it from between the piston and cylinder wall.

That is just absurd. .002 to find .0005 to .0010. That doesn't even make sense.

There is a lot of assumption going along with that method.

I would rather assume, that a alluminum piston with a 1 inch long groove in the skirt, thats roughly an 8th of an inch thick. Will expand at 190 degrees more than .0010.

[Rusty_OToole]

There are a lot of things that don't make sense to you or me that have been worked out by experts. Why re invent the wheel?

In this particular case if you have more accurate measuring tools why not use them? I have no problem with that. But I would trust Chrysler's knowledge and experience over what some local machinist pulled out of his ass.