William Rule Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I want to keep ABS brakes on my 90 ragtop. I am scared of Teves system because of it's high rate of failure.Has anyone successfully swapped the Teves system for another ABS system?I am NOT talken' about swapping for a vacume-boost master cylinder from a Riviera and Killing the ABS. Been there-done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I am not aware of a "high rate of failure"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I am not aware of a "high rate of failure"?Ditto that... Teves only fails when the owner neglects it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Don't believe everything you read. The Teves brake system in your car may need more maintenence than a vacuum boost system but it is still a good system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 An excellant example of poor maintenance is the brake fluid. In the US, auto manufacturers say nothing in the owners manual about changing brake fluid. However, especially in Europe, it is a common maintenance item.With a little research, there are charts and other documentation that say that DOT 3 will absorb 1-2% moisture per year. If you live in a humid area this number will be on the high side. Now do the math on a 20 year old vehicle and that % could be around 20%The same sources show that DOT 3 boiling point drops 100 degrees F with 2% moisture.(SAE spec on DOT 3 is virgin fluid must have a 401 degree F boiling point) doing the math that could bring the boiling point down to 300 degree F on what you think is perfectly good fluid. This may not be an issue with those of us that live on flat land and drive a Reatta, but consider someone towing their Reatta or other collectable car with their truck in the mountains...........boiling brake fluid at the calipers would feel like brake fade, and could be brake failure. This condition can happen if you have ABS or not.Now with moisture in the brake fluid, the moisture corrodes aluminum and rust ferrous metals. This rust and corrosion is now floating in the old brake fluid.Imagine what happens to seals and "o" rings when the ABS kicks in with dirty brake fluid. Even the regular master cylinder cups, o-rings and moving seals will be abraided by this dirty fluid.If you own any vehicle with ABS, you should add brake fluid changes to your maintenance schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'll second that. With a lift and proper tools it only takes about 45 minutes and you can do a tire rotation at the same time. Without, add in the time to get it off the ground and R&R the wheels.Note: do not try without the proper tools to loosen the caliper bleed screws. First time lay in some new ones in case a gorilla with an open end wrench was there first.Note2: RTFM. The Teves bleed process is "special". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I want to keep ABS brakes on my 90 ragtop. I am scared of Teves system because of it's high rate of failure.Has anyone successfully swapped the Teves system for another ABS system?I am NOT talken' about swapping for a vacume-boost master cylinder from a Riviera and Killing the ABS. Been there-done that.Yes I have. And love it, still haven't got the abs light to function correctly but I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Barney has done a great job of outlining the the problems with contaminated brake fluid in a warm climate. Is it possible that brake fluid contaminated with water could freeze in a cold climate? Seems to me a little bit of ice in a brake system could cause a failure also. When I adopt a "new to me" Reatta the first thing I do is have the brake fluid changed along with all the other fluids. I also have a new radiator put in also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recian Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 i havent seen any issues with the Teves system. When my brake lines were messed up I priced out a new master cyl through the auto stores. $675. THat shows you how rarely they fail. If the failure rate was higher there'd be more demand and more cores so the price for a new master cylinder would go down. Personally I like that the booster doesnt pull engine vacuum to brake. It makes bleeding the system easier too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 On this very page...http://forums.aaca.org/f116/abs-vacuum-conversion-141390.htmlThe problems of this Brake System are well documented on this forum and many others. What purpose does it serve to try and rewrite history? How about the NHTSA...REATTA | The Center for AutosafetyYou "keepers of the faith" are doing an incredible diservice to anyone trying to cope with these issues by denying they even exist or making the problem their fault.It has nothing to do with viewpoint, it has everything to do with...Reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Here are some more... All found with a simple Google search, but here in Reatta Fantasy Forum, these problems just dont exist... It is all OUR fault.BUICK REATTA Comments and Complaints ID:11105 - Information for BUICK REATTAWhich includes 10 pages from this very forum on the subject.Reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Most of those "complaints" you speak of are bogas and from people who know nothing about the system. They are 15 to 20 year old cars that have had the brake system serviced by the book, or never serviced at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Never said there wasn't a problem, just that it usually results from poorly maintained systems. The ABS just adds another complexity to the problem but in most cases it just turns itself off. We did study a problem around 2004-2006 that seemed to involve the main valve but I have not seen any mention of the issue since (of course if the driver did not live long enough to report that is a different issue).My experience with the Teves is that I now have it on four cars all working correctly. I have related some frustration keeping them that way but it is primarily from a lack of accurate information (and official information that is wrong is even worse).My tendancy to somewhat fanatical (spacecraft level) about maintenance and the fact that I have a spare for almost everything may be another factor.There is nothing wrong with the Riviera conversion if done properly and somone wants to minimise the possible failure modes. For that matter I suspect with the right m/c you could even forgo power assist to remove another failure point. (My GTO has manual disk brakes, weighs more than a Reatta, and I have no problem stopping. I have the power brake booster, just never installed it. Can lock all four if I need to.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rule Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 I own, maintain and drive three Reattas. All three Teves ABS systems work as they should. I have killed two Reattas in Teves related crashes. The first was a Reatta rental ragtop in 1991------I rear ended a school bus. Last year {as I reported on this form} I rolled a very well maintained 1988 when I touched the brake and the left front locked up-------Master cylinder failure {NOT caliper}How is a Reatta owner to maintain such things as the ECBM? I have changed out six failed units.Thank you Double M------I was getting paranoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Rule Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Padgett is correct. A {Riviera} conversion is much SAFER {lower failure rate}{if done correctly and Ronnie tells how to do that} I have done the conversion on an "X" 1989 ----it work. BUT no ABS!!!!!D-a-n-i-e-l: How did you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 It took alot of schmatic reading, but not as much as you would think. Most of the wiring can be done at the connection to the ABS brain in the trunk. Then I used the abs relay in the front to power the abs box unit from the 91s. I am in the middle of moving and came accross my notes from doing the swap. If I have during the move I will do the write up. I know have let a few down by not doing sooner, but my time has not beem "mine" the last three years. If you can read a schematic most of the info is in the FSM on reatta.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazytrain2 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I hope others agree with me in that the with the exception of accumulators occasionally failing ( by occasionally I mean at or near 100K miles each) and likewise with the wheel sensors Knowing that I consider the Teves system to be pretty bulletproof. The only other problem I'ver ever encountered was due to stupidity where some "know it all" cmpresses thee caliper piston to replace brake pads but fails to open bleeder and instead only removes resevoir cap thereby forcing potentially dirty, burnt brake fluid into the system lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-a-n-i-e-l Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I hope others agree with me in that the with the exception of accumulators occasionally failing ( by occasionally I mean at or near 100K miles each) and likewise with the wheel sensors Knowing that I consider the Teves system to be pretty bulletproof.The only other problem I'ver ever encountered was due to stupidity where some "know it all" cmpresses thee caliper piston to replace brake pads but fails to open bleeder and instead only removes resevoir cap thereby forcing potentially dirty, burnt brake fluid into the system lines.I have replaced, rebuilt, serviced, and watched people wreck their Reattas from these failing. They should be recalled, but there are not enogh of them and time has let GM off the hook for them. I do agree it is a good system......If you want to have some one maintain it for you take it to a diesel shop as the type of system was used much more extensively in diesels. Not even your local GM shops "usally" know what they are dealing with and certainly are not proficiant on them. Also not one teck I have spoke with knew how to bleed them. Over all for the everyday mechanic and daily driver not doing their own work the standard vaccuum system is a much more reliable and trouble free system. As for my car, when I purchased it it was on its way to car heven or just scrap, so I have no remorse not having the teeves.One other thing the system had failed me twice almost killing me both times. I am not a small man and I could not get the car to stop. That being said I would never let my family ride in one with the teeves, even if its designer was the one who seviced the system. On the other hand if you are looking for a fail safe way to collect a large life insurance pay out....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 There are many alternatives. See here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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