'69 power window repair

[AD8]

The passenger window in my "69 Electra has been slow. It finally lifted slowly and stopped 1/2" shy of closed. It will move neither up nor down. The other windows operate OK. I will check the switch block tonight and proceed from there, replacing/repairing as needed. I was down this road many years ago with '70 Riv but the memory fades. I am seeking advice from the membership as what to look for as well as what to look out for. I don't think the door has ever been opened up and I don't want to break anything on my way in.

Do the other windows need to be "exercised" more often to prevent this problem from spreading, or is there a PM procedure for power windows? It's a convertible so the windows are usually in the "down" position.

Any tips/advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Pete Phillips]

Yes, the windows need to be "exercised". If the passenger window will not operate from either the master switch on driver's door or the switch on passenger door, the problem is probably the motor. Before replacing the motor, try running a long ground wire from somewhere on the motor to the negative terminal of your battery. If the motor works from the switch when it is grounded this way, then the problem is a bad ground for the motor. Remove the long one to the battery, and run a short ground wire from the motor to a clean metal surface inside the door somewhere. If the window has been getting slow over the years, then the motor could have burned out, in which case a better ground won't help, but try that first. I have saved many motors by giving them a better ground, when I thought the motor needed replacing.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX

[JohnD1956]

Can you post a picture of your door. It will help in detailing the removal procedure.

Also, if Pete's prescription above does not work, AND you proceed to remove the window regulator to replace the motor before we have a chance to get back to you, DO NOT REMOVE THE MOTOR without locking the regulator in place. There is a way to do this, and if you don't you could find out what life is like without a finger or two.

[AD8]

Thanks to both Pete and John. Switch appears fine. When attempting to operate again last night, with the garage door closed to quiet the space, I could hear the motor trying to move the window both up and down. After a few seconds of trying the electric motor stopped. I thought it was completely dead the other night. Does this clue indicate a course of action or the supplied information above still stands?

Thanks again for the advice!

Jim

[JohnD1956]

It still sounds like you'll be removing the door panel to get at the problem area. Did the window actually move when you heard the motor running?

[AD8]

No John, the window did not move.

Since we're on the sibject. What would the suggested preventitive maintenance program for power windows in general as an effort to prolong proper mechanical function? I know nothing lasts forever especially where older vehicles are concerned but I've been lucky with all the Buicks I've had ('65 WC, '69 WC, '70 Riv) I've never torn down the power windows and restored them to crisp, quick original performance. As long as they made it all the way up and down; that was OK for me. But if I'm going into this door, I might as well give them all some attention.

Or does the old "if it ain't broke" rule apply here?

[NTX5467]

In some cases, you can remove the motor without taking the regulator out of the door. Not sure if that's the case with your vehicle, though. But I would look for how the motor attaches to the regulator before you take the regulator out.

On some regulators, there is a "gauge hole" which is about the size of a 1/4-20 bolt. I believe the regulator will need to be "down" (or compressed) to find where these two holes (one in each part of the regulator -- the basic structure and the part with the gear on it align). This is where a factory GM Body Service Manual can come in handy.

The reference to "minus a finger or two" has to do with the strong flat-wound spring which is on the regulator. In some cases on some cars, you removed the regulator/window assy and placed it in a bench vice to keep things anchored and the strength of the spring at bay.

As to preventive maintenance, the gears were usually lubed with white grease from the factory. As time progresses, the white grease can dry out and flake off of the gear contact surfaces. The slides in the glass sash usually had a jelly-type lube. It might not dry out but it can get moved around with use. Adding some clinging spray grease to these areas can help the motor do its job. WD-40 can help too, but I don't believe it'll have the long term lubrication for the occasional use these windows might receive. Daubing some chassis grease on the gears migth be an option, provided (my orientation) it has some Moly in it (think Ford-spec wheel bearing grease for disc brakes, which usually has moly in it whereas other spec similar greases don't).

If the motor can be removed from the regulator assy, you might find some pop rivets as the retention devices. Drill them out, replace the motor, and then use normal small bolts with Loctite thread locker or some of the nylon insert "prevailing torque" nuts with a star lock washer under them. If the motor is internally grounded, the star locks will help ensure that connection is made.

Pete's idea about the long ground wire is a good one.

Will the motor now lower the window?

When you get the door panel off, you'll probably find a significantly-deteriorated heavy craft paper "water shield". I'd replace that with some heavier sheet plastic, retained with a thin bead of silicone sealer around the perimeter of the plastic. You'll need to cut slits in it for the various things which stick through the water shield (door handles, window wiring connectors, etc.). The plastic will last longer and the silicone will allow the plastic to be removed without much trouble, intact.

As the motors are reversible motors, it might work in one direction and not in the other direction, which might then indicate it's getting weak. I have one car in which a particular power window goes up very, very slowly, even needing some manual help to "get there". Even after taking things apart and lubing them, but it goes down just fine. Might be that flat-wound spring's tension?

In getting the door panel off, first remove everything which screws into or through the panel. The power window switch escuteheon will snap into a soft metal ring on the panel rather than the spring clip contacting the softer panelboard itself. That might need careful application of a flat blade screwdriver. Then, you'll find that there are some retention clips along the bottom perimeter of the panel which keep it attached to the door. The armrest will need to be removed, too, as those screws usually go into the inner door shell--generally a larger Phillips head screwdriver.

With the bottom of the panel carefully disengaged from the door shell, the panel should "pivot" on its upper horizontal area, at the "elbow rest" area of the panel. Carefully jar the whole panel upward to get the upper clips disengaged from the door shell. Note the position of the panel with respect to any clips in that area. Might need to do a corner first rather than jarring from the lower center of the panel. At this point, the remains of the water shield should be revealed.

It's generally not uncommon for a few of the retention clips to break. Much better to break the clips than the slots in the panel board in which they reside!!! Should the panel board slots become damaged, then some Velcro spots might be an alternative if too many become damaged in the removal process.

With the guts of the door revealed, you can inspect things to see what's what and where. For diagnostics, you might reinstall the particular door's window switch and see and listen to what happens. Then you can find the motor to check the wiring going to it from the wiring harness. Usually, the main power for the window goes to the master switch and then uses what I term a "cross instrument panel" harness section, which will then attach to the particular door's wiring harness in the lower kick panel area (or thereabouts). In short, there's a couple of wiring plug-ins between the motor and the main harness on the lh side of the vehicle. Usually, these harness are quite substantial and cause no problems, but in a convertible it might be a good idea to check each one for voltage loss (via back-probing the connectors in each terminal insulator for voltage and resistance).

From this point, you can also re-lube the big gear and the window slides. Plus otherwise check for operation of the assembly.

It's not a terribly hard job to do, but it could easily consume a few hours getting things taken apart and checked. Just don't get in a hurry and make it an educational experience.

Please keep us posted on what you find and your progress.

NTX5467