Riv speakers

[sosuzguy]

So what have you other 80's model Riv owners done when you have had to replace your speakers? 83/84/85 maybe 81 & 82 with concert sound?

This one I need to replace has the 6 speaker concert sound setup. Nothing fancy other than just two extra speakers. Problem is they are all 10ohm speakers.

I found the following part numbers and see some ebay and amazon results but can't look at them at work right now.

16033662 these are the two front door speakers

16040950 the two 1/4 window area speakers (Discontinued)

16034200 the two rear package tray shelf. (Discontinued)

I KNOW I am not the first person who has had to replace the speakers in their Riv and I've searched the forum and didn't find where anyone had discussed this previously.

What are viable options from those of you who know more about speakers than I do?

Replace them with NOS that you buy from here and there? I just wonder if the years haven't already done a number on deteriorating some of the cone material on any NOS available?

Maybe take them out and send them off to a business or person who rebuilds speakers?

It's been a while since I bought aftermarket speakers but from just seeing a few prices here and there it looks like buying all NOS would end up being around $300 for all 6?

Maybe someone who knows about speakers and ohms can explain why GM used 10ohm then now they aren't just so I'll know. Thanks

Edited June 15, 2011 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[68RIVGS]

My knowledge of speakers is limited to what I have read on the net Jason. Supposedly you can get away with using 8 ohm impedence speakers, if 10 ohms are unobtanium, but do not use a 4 ohm replacement, as it will fry the power transistor in the radio.

[RivNut]

Jayson,

Below is the link to the guys who supplied me the list for the 1604950 4" x 10" speaker. Sadly, they have only one left in their inventory. If you check the link you'll see that the part number goes with a 4"x10" speaker, plus I've got two blown ones lying on a shelf in the garage - that's where I came up with the part number originally. I'm thinking the parts guy you got the numbers from transposed his numbers - you haven't bought any thing else from him have you? :eek:

AC DELCO 16040950, 1991 GMC SONOMA, VIN = A, ID:2Q66O

Everyone,

As far as the 4x10 ohm GM speakers are concerned, they were used up into the mid 90's on lots of vehicles. Some are only 15 years old, not 25 or older like you'd pull from a Riviera. If you'd like a list of all vehicles, send me a PM

Ed

[rivgs]

Jayson,

Try this website and see if he has what you need, Auto Electronics . I have been lucky with the 84/85 and not needed stereo "stuff". He has rebuilt my radio's for the 50's, 60's and 70's vehicles and I have been happy with the results and his speakers do sound much better than the factory originals.

[sosuzguy]

Jayson,

Try this website and see if he has what you need, Auto Electronics . I have been lucky with the 84/85 and not needed stereo "stuff". He has rebuilt my radio's for the 50's, 60's and 70's vehicles and I have been happy with the results and his speakers do sound much better than the factory originals.

Thanks I tried that website, here is the reply. I'll keep looking.

I am sorry, but I don't know what speakers are in your car. I have the Delco radio service documentationi from 1932 up to 1973. After 1973 I only have information on a few GM cars, mostly in the mid 70's. By 1985 GM started to build speakers using the larger ceramic magnets and made different style mounting brackets to hold them in place than used in the 60's and 70's. I know the 84-87 Buick Regal/Grand Nationals used 4x10 speakers in the rear, 3 1/2" in the dash and special 5 1/4" in the doors. The rear 4x10's were held in with a bracket under the round donut shaped magnet. Our 4x10's will not mount in these cases as our magnet is sized for the 60's and 70's brackets.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[sosuzguy]

Okay back to this. About a year ago I purchased a refurbished OEM radio from a vendor on Ebay for this car. Can't seem to find him right now (at work) but I'm wondering if he already might of converted the radio from 10ohm to 4ohm. When I switched the radios I noticed with the refurbished radio the volume level seemed to be lower than with the original radio. (Yes I can increase the level with the volume control)

For those of you who know what you doing here:

1) Does a decrease in volume from one radio to another with the same speakers suggest a lower ohms is being used?

2) Is checking the ohms output of the radio as simple as using a meter that will measure ohms connected to one of the 6 speaker outputs from the radio? Maybe just back probing the speaker connector not connected to the speaker?

I have someone who helps me with meter/electrical issues but he isn't sure about measuring ohms from a radio. Thanks in advance.

Edited June 27, 2011 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

Jayson,

I'm not a radio guy but can explain the electrical theory in general terms which may or may not help you.:confused:

In answer to question #1. The radio does not have a rating or output of ohms. Ohms is the resistance to current flow otherwise known as impedance and or the load. If one radio has a lower volume at the same setting it could be how the amplifiers are set internally or perhaps a different type of amplifier. There are other variables that would factor in this equation that probably only a radio expert could answer.

Question#2. The radio output is measured in volts/amps or combining the two as "watts". As the volume is increased the output volts and amps or "wattage" is increased putting more power to the speaker. A good example is think of the current "amps" as water flowing through a garden hose. Place a thumb over the end of hose and you feel pressure. This is like the "voltage". If you stop the flow, you can feel the pressure is still there but flow has stopped. Your thumb is restricting the flow so thats impedance or "ohms". The higher the ohms the more resistance to flow. A 10ohm speaker has more resistance to current flow than a 4 ohm speaker. So for a given voltage (output from radio) if you connect a 4 ohm speaker to a radio that is designed for a 10ohm impedance, the current flow goes up (less resistance to flow...same as moving thumb on hose to allow more water flow) when the current flow goes up so does the heat and that will cook the amplifier and related circuitry that isn't designed for higher amps. Thats why using the wrong speakers can cook a radio.

I know if you check a 10 ohm speaker with an ohm meter you won't get a reading of 10 ohms. It will usually be less like maybe 3/4 of the rating like 7 or 8 ohms. That alone confuses a lot of people. Power actually has to be flowing in a speaker to gage the actual impedance and thats not easily done. The impedance of a speaker is not not like measuring the resistance or ohms of a light bulb.

Edited June 27, 2011 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[sosuzguy]

IT sounds like the easier thing to do is find modern 4 ohm speakers and send the radios off to be rebuilt to handle 4 ohm. I hate the auto makers for changing crap like this... UGH!

[Guest mark1950m]

@JZRIV,

In answer to question #1. The radio does not have a rating or output of ohms.

I beg to differ with you. All amplifiers have an output impedance measured at certain frequencies or a range of frequencies as determined by the designer. That is why Impedance matching is important and a mismatch is detrimental.

Ohms is the resistance to current flow otherwise known as impedance and or the load.

That's a good description for a D.C. resistance, but it falls short of describing an A.C. audio impedance which takes into account other factors such as capacitance and reluctance. Impedance is measured in Ohms and is (in a broad term) the "resistance" to an A.C. voltage/current.

If one radio has a lower volume at the same setting it could be how the amplifiers are set internally or perhaps a different type of amplifier.

This is true, but for all practical purposes volume levels will remain pretty equal for amps with the same power rating. With that constraint in mind an 8-10 ohm speaker will effectively prevent half of the current from passing through it when matched to a 4 Ohm output. Conversely a 4 Ohm speaker will allow 2 to 2 1/2 times more current from the output of an 8 Ohm radio and that's when you run into real trouble.

This is just meant to straighten out a few things. Your response to Jayson is very good other than these that I've mentioned.

Oh, also, impedance can be measured or calculated with the proper instruments, but it should also be done by a qualified technician. Never use a D.C. Ohmmeter to test the radio's output resistance. Ohmmeters use a small voltage to develop the current thru a resistor and it could (would) destroy the amp or be destroyed itself.

Mark

Edited June 28, 2011 by mark1950m (see edit history)