Guest Dick Farnsworth Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I am looking for any information on a Stover automobile that was at a car show in Petaluma Ca in 2007 or 2008. It was listed as an 1898 Stover. There are pictures of this car on Flickr and this is the link to those pictures 1898 Stover Horseless Carriage 09 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! I am looking for any information on this or any other Stover cars and would like to contact the owner of the car. Thank you for any help that you can give me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Boudway Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi Dick,Do you mean Staver?We had one here in Canandaigua a few years ago,and I saw a Staver carriage in the museum in Hastings, Nebraska last spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Boudway Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi, again,Google "Staver" for more that you'd ever need to know about the automobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 "Stover's" Were manufactured by the Stover Motor Car Company of Cincinnati, Ohio. The company also produced stationary and marine engines at a Freeport, Illinois facility. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Farnsworth Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 The car in the pictures is a Stover. In one of the pictures you can see the name Stover on the front of the car. The Cincinatti Stover Motor Car Company was organized in 1910. The car I am asking about looks to be much earlier than 1910. I live in Freeport IL where the Stover Engine Company was located. There is no connection to the Cincinatti company. The Freeport Stover Company did build a number of cars for use on Railroad tracks. 2, 4 and 6 cylinder types. It has always been rumored that the Freeport Stover Company made a few cars for the roads before starting the railway cars. I would really like to get in touch with the owner of the pictured Stover to see if it might be a Freeport made car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) The car in the pictures is a Stover. In one of the pictures you can see the name Stover on the front of the car. The Cincinatti Stover Motor Car Company was organized in 1910. The car I am asking about looks to be much earlier than 1910. I live in Freeport IL where the Stover Engine Company was located. There is no connection to the Cincinatti company. The Freeport Stover Company did build a number of cars for use on Railroad tracks. 2, 4 and 6 cylinder types. It has always been rumored that the Freeport Stover Company made a few cars for the roads before starting the railway cars. I would really like to get in touch with the owner of the pictured Stover to see if it might be a Freeport made car.Assuming the ownership may have not changed, why not track it with the license plate number clearly shown in the photo with the California DMV? Has the local historical society any information on Stover?I ran across an ad for Stover engines that shows Stover was also in the windmill motor business previously or concurrent with making stationary engines.This vintage article implies that Stover Motor Car was not formed until 1907http://books.google.com/books?id=D5RMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=Stover+windmill+motors&source=bl&ots=cMQtnKyqik&sig=EI9BW0RT4gx-I2AccA4Y5dN63Tg&hl=en&ei=aJ5-Tb-XI8aZ0QHIpryOCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false Edited March 14, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Farnsworth Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Jim, Thank you for the DMV idea. I don't think that they will give out that kind of information but I do have a friend in local law enforcement who might be able to help with this. The Stover Motor Car Company in the link that you provided is the division that made the railway cars. Any automobiles that might have been built would have been done before the 1907 date. Stover was the largest manufacturer of Windmills in the world at one time. They also made lots of various hardware items working mostly in Cast Iron and Brass. They were also a large manufacterer of the stationary engines. We have the factory inspection and shipping records for the stationary engines but no records on the railway cars and only rumors of any automobiles. I am trying to find any evidence that they did in fact make some automobiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Jim, Thank you for the DMV idea. I don't think that they will give out that kind of information but I do have a friend in local law enforcement who might be able to help with this. The Stover Motor Car Company in the link that you provided is the division that made the railway cars. Any automobiles that might have been built would have been done before the 1907 date. Stover was the largest manufacturer of Windmills in the world at one time. They also made lots of various hardware items working mostly in Cast Iron and Brass. They were also a large manufacterer of the stationary engines. We have the factory inspection and shipping records for the stationary engines but no records on the railway cars and only rumors of any automobiles. I am trying to find any evidence that they did in fact make some automobiles.For at least some info on the rail cars look for info on Great Northern Railroad. I Know there are copies of purchase orders and invoices for the rail cars in a museum in Wisconsin. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find the museum's web address. One of the links I previously posted has an illustration of the Stover rail car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) There was a Smoky Stover in the old funny pages.Seriously,though,on that link to the 1898 Stover there was another link to the photographer, Ron Kimball/Kimbalstock. perhaps he can give you some information about the ownercontact us at 650-969-0682 or toll free at 888-562-5522 Copyright 2011 Kimball Stock Edited March 15, 2011 by Dave Mellor NJ (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) There was a Smoky Stover in the old funny pages.Seriously,though,on that link to the 1898 Stover there was another link to the photographer, Ron Kimball/Kimbalstock. perhaps he can give you some information about the ownercontact us at 650-969-0682 or toll free at 888-562-5522 Copyright 2011 Kimball StockI suspect the club that puts on the show at which those photos were taken would also know who the owner at the time would have been. I think they style themselves as the Southern California Horseless Carriage Club, but I may be wrong about that.Try this link:http://www.hcca.org/old/regional.html#CALIFORNIAJim Edited March 15, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncompos Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 FWIW, Std Cat Am'cn Cars sez Stover established the Motor Car Co "... as adjunct (sic) to his gasoline-engine producing...It's total production was a few Automobiles and a single railway motor inspection car in 1909. In December of that year he sold the assets of his automobile venture to Buda...Harvey, Ill.... Buda indicated its plans to establish an "automobile department", but ultimately decided against...factory built for the Stover car was turned over to manufacture of Stover engines." (I believe Buda built railway cars, but I don't know when they started or how long produced).On Jim's link to Railway Age pg 271 (the 4 pass railway car), there's also a piece on a proposed 35 pass railway car on pg 750, powered (or maybe to be powered by?) a 4cyl 5x5.Googling the Motor Car Co also brings up the Spring 2010 copy of the Sagebrush Headlight: Self-propelled Passenger Cars in Nevada, Part II, about 10 pgs fine print, that I did NOT read to find a reference to Stover, but it should be in there somewhere. (Many other hits showed up)DICK: Have you talked to the local pub lib/hist soc about any Stover document collections or local newspaper announcements etc?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncompos Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Farm engines are not my thing, so had no idea D.C. was so rich or well-known. I assume you've found the Stover Automobile Company, incptd 1905. I should think DC's every accomplishment, cars included, would be lovingly detailed in the local paper/s of the time...I don't envy your hours of scanning old papers on microfilm!! Oh: Any connection to the Chicago-Stover Automobile Co., apparently in being circa 1912 (Brabazon bio)?? Std Cat has no listing under Chicago or Stover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I'm beginning to think that the vehicle in the photo was not produced by Stover whether the Illinois or Ohio company. Perhaps the nameplate appearing on the front of the vehicle was intended to indicate the manufacturer of the engine. It may even be a "one of a kind" built by some individual having no connection with Stover other than having adapted one of their stationary engines to a home/shop built vehicle.The only avenue to unravel this mystery may well be via contact with someone related to D.C. Stover via the genealogical sites or even Facebook. Most families with have a least one descendant who has amassed a great deal of family personal and business history. At this moment I would question whether D.C. Stover had anything to do with the vehicle in the photo and without a lot of supportive documentation to indicate otherwise, would tend to consider that car a recently built fraud. Jim Edited March 17, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Farnsworth Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jim, At this point I am inclined to agree with you. When I first saw the pictures my first reaction was "homemade". The rumors have persisted for so long that I want to make sure before I quit. I have been in contact with the HCCA chapter President from the Petaluma area and he did not know of the car. He is going to ask his membership to see if anyone has seen the car. A couple of guys on an a Hit and Miss engine forum think that they can see what looks like a Stover engine which dates to about 1925-1930. The local stover guys can't see enough of the motor to tell what it is. I am going to spend some time reading the local newspapers to see if there was any mention of Stover building any cars. I don't know any of the decendents at this time. local collectors and historians have researched and gathered a huge amount of information and i am talking to them all the time. An interesting sidenote about the Stover family is that he apparently did not trust his Son or Daughter. D.C.Stover died in 1906 or 07 and his estate was configured so that 3 trustees were appointed to manage the money and the company. The 2 children received very little. The trustees were to manage the estate until 21 years after the death of last surving child. That worked out to be 1967 and that is when the estate was finally settled and divided amoung the Grandchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncompos Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 DICK: As to actual Stover cars, you might save a lot of time by contacting Krause; my copy of the Std Cat contains a request for any additional information, and they should have in their files their basis for saying DC did produce a few cars, presumably trade or local paper announcements, ads, etc.Ahhh: Std Cat also says the automobile co was formed to build his Phoenix, which apparently never made it into production. If reviewing old pieces, don't confuse with his Phoenix bicycle; car was supposed to run on alcohol per Std Cat. Krause probably has basis (bases plural?) for Phoenix refereence as well. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldenguy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If you mean the publisher Krause, I believe he would have little if any input into the matter. The authors and researchers were Beverly Rae Kimes & Austie Clark both deceased at this point in time. I think Austie's papers went to Detroit, either to the Ford museum or the Detroit Automotive Library. Ms. Kimes paperwork I heard went to the automotive section of the Philadelphia public library. Anyone can feel free to correct or enhance the above. I do know that in my personal conversation with Ms. Kimes at the Burn Foundation Concours, that dredging up some of this info on individual makes or manufactuers yielded little or no more info than was published in the "Big Book" ---Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Farnsworth Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have had a copy of the Standard Catalog of American Cars in my library for many years and I refer to it all the time. I think of it as a great starting point but not the definitive answer for 100% accuracy. I have always admired the 2 authors for putting together the huge amount of information and making it available to the hobby. Even today new infomation is still coming to light which will help to complete the picture of the early automobile manufacturing. I do know that the Stover Motor Car Company was successful in their production of the railway cars. They produced 2, 4 and 6 cylinder models. We have determined the location of the factory and have a picture of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That rear axle doesn't look strong enough for a tricycle. Look at the camber on the right rear wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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