Citroen ignition problem

[olympic]

My 54 Traction Avant has an apparent ignition gremlin. The car starts fine when cold and runs perfectly. But shut it off for about 5 minutes and it won't start. There is spark at the coil but nothing at the plug wire tips. Today I put a new condensor on and took it for a quick trip. No problems. Put it back in the garage, took one of the Franklins for a quick ride and then tried starting the Citroen, nothing. Just in case, changed coils, still nothing, tried running a separate ground wire from the distributor to the negative post, still nothing. It is not a fuel problem, it won't even fire with starting fluid down the carb. Two hours later, went down to garage and it started instantly. I seem to be loosing fire somewhere between the coil and the plugs. By the way, this is a Paris built Citroen not British so it doesn't have Lucas electrics. The "Prince of Darkness" is not involved here. The ignition system is pretty staight forward just like most American cars. Maybe some one has had a similar problem with some American iron. Dave

[Guest Silverghost]

I assume your ignition points are in good shape and properly adjusted and gapped?

Also~

Is your ignition breaker plate where the ignition points mount inside your distributor clean?

The ignition braker points need a very good clean internal ground mounting connection to properly switch the coil "on & off" to in turn fire the spark plugs.

What is the condition of your rotor arm and your distributor cap ? Are your cap and rotor electrodes clean and bright inside?

There could be some corrosion there ?

How old are your high-voltage ignition plug wires ? Are they stiff and leaky ?

Run the car at night in the dark to look for leakage sparks on your high-voltage spark plug wires~

There should be NO sparks visable ~

How clean are your spark plugs ?

Are they properly gapped ?

If you can ~

Try to get us some voltage readings at your ignition coil with the ignition switch on !

The high-voltage side of the system is very simple indeed.....

This should be fairly easy to troubleshoot and repair ~

Let us know what you find ?

Good Luck !

Edited November 14, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[olympic]

Silverghost, thanks for the reply. I'm going to check point gao today and the points are new. The distrributor cap is clean and the contacts are clean and bright. I'll give a look at the distributor face plate while I'm checking points. I checked the plugs the other day and they were fine. Also all the plug wires were replaced recently and the distrrbutor rotor is also new.. I do want to check if there is a voltage drop on the secondary when the engine has been running.

[Guest Silverghost]

Another thought~

I have seen ignition switches & key-switches heat-up and cause voltage drop after a time. Run your car and feel for any heat build-up on the back of ignition switch.

This would indicate resistance build-up and result in voltage drop.

Keep us posted !

[Joseph P. Indusi]

olympic:

Some cars came with a resister built into the distributor rotor for spark suppression. Try substituting the old rotor or one without the resistor.

Good luck.

Joe

[olympic]

Thanks again. That idea about the ignition switch is a good one! Joe, there is no resistor built into the rotor, earlier I went looking for one in the ignition circuit but there isn't any.

[olympic]

Last night I put an old distributor cap on the Citroen. It started right up and we let it run for a bit. Shut it off and let it sit for about 10 minutes and tried again. Voila, it started! We went through this routine about 6 times and it re-started every time. This is the first time I've encountered a situation where a distributor cap failed completely after the engine was hot. Live and learn. Dave

[Guest Silverghost]

Dave:

I would never have guessed that your problem was the cap in a million years.

Here's a fun test for your old cap~

Take an ohm meter reading from the center of the cap inside terminal to it's outside coil wire trminal.

Then heat it to about 150 * in your oven and re-test .

See what readings you get~

It sounds like a problem with the center cap coil electrode.

Is there a carbon brush with a spring behind it on this center cap terminal ?

Perhapps you can pull-out the carbon brush and re-stretch the old spring ?

perhapps it was heating-up and opening up ?

Glad you solved this crazy problem !

Edited November 19, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Studebaker EP]

We've encountered several situations where distributor caps failed after they heated up. Regardless of the make. I don't know what the parts situation is in the US for French cars but let me know in case you need NOS ignition parts for your Citroen. I'm sure I could help you out. Peter

[Guest strelnik]

We've encountered several situations where distributor caps failed after they heated up. Regardless of the make. I don't know what the parts situation is in the US for French cars but let me know in case you need NOS ignition parts for your Citroen. I'm sure I could help you out. Peter

Just as an FYI for olympic, there are several sources in the country for quality parts, and these parts are remade.

Ask me, I know lol: I have 12 Citroens! Have owned Tractions going back to 1937 and up to 1957, pls DS19 and 21 models, including one of the eight 4 door convertibles, plus six 2CVs and a truckette.

Then there are the other cars...:eek:

[Rusty_OToole]

Re your remark about not having any English parts. Years ago I had a 1956 Triumph 500 twin, the Canadian army motorcycle. It had a Lucas distributor. When I went to buy points the auto electric shop had to look them up in a big illustrated book. It turned out the same points were used in half a dozen English cars plus Citroen. Probably the same points as in your car. Or, at least the English built version.

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

Dad had a Citroen while I was growing up. His was a '56 6 cylinder model Traction Avant.

It had a knob on the dash to adjust the ignition advance. He used it every time he had to start it with the crank