Guest broker-bob Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I have a 36 and 31 Plymouth after maybe 150 miles on a new set of points I find the points develop pits and points which stops them from making good contact and no spark-------------------I have a small fille which I use to dress them and I am off------------is this normal,,,,,does every one go through it,,,,,,any help or sugestions would be great ????? BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Sounds to me like your gap is wrong or burning too hot. Don't know if too much gap or too little gap would be the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) Points do pit after a long period of time 4-5 thousand miles or so~BUT~They should not get pitted in this short period of time ! Make sure you are getting proper voltage at your ignition coil's battery + or ign. terminal Next make sure that your ignition ballest resistor is there and in good shape !It is a ceramic unit that is wire wound & it gets very hot!usually located on the firewall, distributor, or engine .It may be missing !This resistor limits the current load on your coil & ignition points. The condenser also helps prevent ignition point burning & pitting ...So replace it with the proper value condensor ! Lastly make sure you have the proper ignition coil; and that is in good condition and not inernally shorted . Clean all ignition connections on the coil and Distributor.Any poor connections causes electrical resistance and voltage drop.As the voltage goes down the current goes up !This too could put more load on your new ignition points . Good points should last a long time. Let me know your findings ~Good LuckIt should be a fairly easy fix ! Edited September 30, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 thanks for your response doint know what you mean by balist resistor have had the 36 sinse 84 seems orininal has new coil are you shure 36 mopar had them ? you mentioned bad conection I just remember the wire going to distributor is a bit lose will check just had the point problem on the 31 after 50 miles again filing fixes the problem never saw a resistor on eather car the 36 has condenser inside distributor 31 hanging out side do they have a value that may be not right ?????? ----------------BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) I believe that you should have a ballest resistor. The old condensors do NOT last very long after all these years. They are a weak link !If you would cut one open you would find a roll of aluminum foil wrapped along with waxed paper in a very long strip rolled tightly togeher.After time these things short out internally as the waxed paper and electrolyte insulation coating gets old. The ignition spark coil itself may be the incorrect voltage orthe wrong type ! My points seem to last almost forever with the little use miles I put on the cars each year. Edited September 30, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 No ballast resistors in 6-volt MoPars.A bad condenser will cause points to pit, as will too close a point gap. Also, any oil (from feeler gauges ( to prevent rusting ) or excess lube on the distributor cam that finds its way onto the contacts can cause burning & pitting...What brand points are you using ? There's been some talk that modern replacement points do not last as long as the ones made more than 20 years ago...I've gotten as much as 20-30,000 miles out of a set of points...The '36 Plymouth should have Auto-Lite electrics, but the '31 would have Delco-Remy...Both cars were positive ground originally... if the coil or battery polarity has gotten reversed, that might account for rapid pitting of the points...A correctly functioning points ignition should get at least several thousand miles out of a set of points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kaycee Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 When you replace your points, after gapping them, drag a piece of CLEAN cardboard or folded paper through them in case there's any oily film on your feeler gauge. kaycee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Pitted points usually means a bad condenser. An NOS condenser is probably bad when you install it. They had a short life even if never used, they were made of wax paper and tinfoil. Modern mylar condensers have a much longer life. See if you can get a new condenser of the proper value, probably about .25 to .28 MFD, at least that is the spec of 6 volt ignition on Chrysler products around 1950. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) The value of a condenser is not really that critical~If the repacement is way off spec metal will be deposited from one contact to the oher.As stated above they do not last very long !NAPA sells condensers~Don't worry about voltage.Try one you think will fit inside your distributor or mount it on a screw outside.Important: Make sure the condenser can or bracket has a good clean ground on your breaker plate ! Edited September 30, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 For what it's worth, I still have the same points and condenser that came with my '41 De Soto when I got it 14 years & 40,000 miles ago. I cleaned and gapped the points when I first got the car, and haven't touched them since.I think they are Blue Streak points; the car came with a couple extra sets of Blue Streak points / condenser that look like they were made in '50s-'60s.If everything is "right", they should last a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Frank I have seen radios 80 years old still working with the original capacitors (same thing as a condenser). But most old wax paper caps are shot, even if they were never used. They just deteriorate over time and there is no way to tell when they will go.So, it is quite possible your car is running on a condenser that was installed in the sixties. They don't all fail.A modern capacitor made of mylar is much more durable and is more likely to stand up for 50 years. But there is no guarantee in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Back when points were in use it was common to get a tuneup once or twice a year. One mechanic I know would inspect the old points and if they were not burned, would save the old condenser for his own car.They varied in quality even when new. If you got one perfectly matched to your ignition, the points would not burn. If impedence was too high one point would burn, if too low the other would burn. By that I mean metal from one point would burn off and be deposited on the other point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 No ballast resistors in 6-volt MoPars.A bad condenser will cause points to pit, as will too close a point gap. Also, any oil (from feeler gauges ( to prevent rusting ) or excess lube on the distributor cam that finds its way onto the contacts can cause burning & pitting...What brand points are you using ? There's been some talk that modern replacement points do not last as long as the ones made more than 20 years ago...I've gotten as much as 20-30,000 miles out of a set of points...The '36 Plymouth should have Auto-Lite electrics, but the '31 would have Delco-Remy...Both cars were positive ground originally... if the coil or battery polarity has gotten reversed, that might account for rapid pitting of the points...A correctly functioning points ignition should get at least several thousand miles out of a set of points...DeSoto Frank is right on the money.I've got about 20,000 on my current set of points.As per other posts on this thread, suspect you have condenser problems. Use a modern condenser. And when you are doing a tune up if the old points aren't pitted, just worn down, then keep the old condenser as it is working just fine.It might be polarity too. All the 6v MoPars were positive ground and the coil, etc. are built using that assumption so your spark will be hottest if the polarity is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 As others have pointed out, pitted points in just a few miles is a classic symptom of a bad condensor or less likely, a bad ground. I've certainly never experienced point life in my 34 Packard of 40,000 miles as has been noted, but 20,000 miles is routine. Though condensors come in a range of capacitance, the range is narrow and the car really doesn't generally care if the condensor is for 6-volt, 12-volt, 2,4,6,8,12 or 16 cylinders. Buy a new (never use NOS) universal Echlin or Standard condensor, selecting one where the lead is long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest honestjerry Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 all of this assumes you are still running a 6 volt battery right? (someone was running mine off of 12 volts with no resistor before I got it and the points were fried) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 all of this assumes you are still running a 6 volt battery right? (someone was running mine off of 12 volts with no resistor before I got it and the points were fried)Yep. If you've switched to 12v then you need an ballast resistor or you need to switch to a "12v coil" that has a ballast built into it... I did not mention that above because I am stuck in the "as built by the factory" mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) I want to thank every one for the feed back all my stuff is very old I will check grounds and make shure wire conections are tight and look for new condensers----both my cars are original 6 volt ------still not shure what the balest resistor is------BR Edited September 30, 2010 by broker-bob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 If you can find a 6 volt one, an electronic ignition module will solve your problems. You can use your points distributor and the points will last 50,000 miles. You won't need a condenser either. The points act as a switch, the ignition module does the work.A few years ago I found plans for a 6 volt electronic ignition on the web someplace. Unfortunately it was not for pos ground so I didn't bookmark it. You might still find it with a web search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 thanks again for the advise I have two old cars and I do not change them from factory equipment ---------------- doint drive them that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Broker Bob,Don't worry about the Ballast resistor; when cars went to 12-volts, some makers kept using 6-volt coils, but added a "ballast"resistor to the primary wire ( hot wire coming form the ignition switch), to keep the coil from frying.Some makers that used this approach also had a circuit in the starter solenoid that bypassed the resistor when the starter was engaged, sending a full 12-volts to the coil, giving a hotter spark during starting.To the best of my knowledge, the only 6-volt vehicles that may have used a ballast resistor were Ford 9N & 2N tractors... possibly Ford cars and trucks that had the distributor mounted on the front of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Thanks for the info-------------NEVER TO OLD TO LEARN-------------BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 By the way points don't have to be replaced. If you want to be real pernickity you can take them out and rub them smooth on an oil stone and they are good as new. Not quite as good, is a points file or wet or dry sandpaper.Clean them and smooth them off and they are as good as new, for a while. Put a dab of ignition grease the size of a match head on the cam. They will last till the rubbing block wears away or you file the points completely off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I have a file,,,that is what I use when they get pitted----but am going to follow some of the sugestions and look for a new condensor----thanks all of you--my cars below------------------BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Bob,Those are swell-looking cars ! I really like the '31 !Good luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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