Bugle article on 1970 Electras

[wws944]

I was very interested to read the article in the latest Bugle on the 1970 Electras. One thing that was missing, to me, was any mention of the 'Limited' package that was available that year. My father had a '70 Electra which he ordered from the factory with the Limited package, and pretty much every other available option. (Sole exception: he decided not to get the 8-track tape player.)

Does anyone know how many '70 Electra Limiteds were produced, and what the package included?

I can also relate to the comments on the front bumper tri-shield emblem being hard to get. The Limited had a different emblem than the regular Electras. Back in the day, I got into a bit of a crunch with the car and we had to replace the front bumper. This would have been around 1975, and the body shop put the wrong emblem on the front. Not sure if this was ineptitude by the body shop, or if the correct Limited part was NLA even then.

[NTX5467]

If the "Limited" was a low-production option, once the particular emblem's projected stock had been used, it was probably replaced (GM Part Number change) by the normal Electra emblem. Better to have "something" there than otherwise. Just my gut suspicion.

Once that part number change would have happened, the prior part number would not have been in the parts book any longer. Therefore, unless a sharp parts person had sufficient product knowledge of that special option package, it just wan't there any more. No listing for "Electra w/Limited", just "Electra".

BUT, going back to a parts book printed during the vehicle's production year, the "Limited" emblem should have been there. Not just a parts book "covering" the 1970s models, but one printed while the model year 1970 vehicles were in production. The printing date was on the bottom of the catalog cover and also on the bottom of each catalog page. If the "Limited" option was a "New for 1970" situation, then it should have first been listed in the "yellow pages" of new parts for 1970 at the front of the catalog. In later 1970 printings, it would have been in the normal group sequence listings.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[wws944]

Are you saying your 1970 parts book does not show the Limited package parts? It was definitely a factory option, and not some dealer special. The Bugle article shows a chart of 1970 models, and the "Electra 225 Custom Limited 4-door hardtop" is shown. (The photo spans the crease between pages 24 and 25.)

I put a lot of miles on that car in my misspent youth. Despite the cars weight, the hi-comp 455, w/factory dual exhaust option, could move it from 0->60 in about 8.5 seconds. Our later '73 Electra was hard pressed to do it in 12 seconds.

[NTX5467]

IF, repeat . . . IF, the Limited Package was an addition to the normal Electra 225's equipment, and IF it was designed to be a low-production option, the normal projections of needing to build enough of the particular emblem you reference would have been similarly small. Therefore, as soon as that replacement stock was depleted, they could very well have been replaced (in the parts book listings) by the normal Electra 225 emblem.

With respect to the parts book listings, I've seen instances where the later printings of the books would have particular parts not listed in them (although we knew they should be in there). Therefore, this resulted in the "Not Available any more" reply from the parts counterperson. BUT, if you went back to an earlier printing of the parts book, found the needed part number, THEN checked GM Parts to see if it was still available, they were. ONLY after looking in the earlier printing of the parts book might you discover this situation. Been there, done that!

In that situation, the later version of the parts book was oriented toward the particular parts having been used up (with no future stock being re-ordered), so they were not listed in the later printings of the parts book. By observation, GM will (or at least would before the more recent "things" happened) keep re-ordering batches of older model year parts as long as they had good sales volume on them. In these situations, their stocking warehouse location would tend to be near noted restoration parts vendors' geographical locations. In other situations, they would put them out to license by restoration parts vendors/sellers.

It is for these reasons that I highly recommend purchasing factory parts books which have a printing date during or near the model year of the vehicle you have. This results in ALL of the parts for the vehicle being listed in the book. The farther away from the model year the book is printed, the more items which might not be listed in them anymore. From the manufacturer's stand point, no need to put parts listings in the book which have been (or will soon be) discontinued or "removed from service".

For example, in the case of the then-new 1988 Chevy pickups, they had a massive number of fan clutches and fans for these vehciles. When many of them started to have over heat issues in the summer (at least in TX), Tech Assistance put out TSBs of which fan clutches and fans to use for warranty replacement issues. In the 1989 and 1990 versions of the parts book, the fan clutch listings were "consolidated" and simplified from what they were initially. What they told us to use was now what they used in production. About 5 fan clutches to replace about 10 from the previous listings.

With all due respect, each of those prior fan clutches were "purpose engineered" for a particular vehicle equipment combination (and production cost thereof). After a year or so of "real world experience", it's not unusual for such mechanical things to be somewhat consolidated with other vehicles' uses . . . be it fan clutches, shocks/struts, or whatever.

This same "near the model year" printing of parts books can also apply to the aftermarket, too. They can be quicker to consolidate applications from several part numbers to a few, by observation--especially on fan clutches.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[pphil]

I can also relate to the comments on the front bumper tri-shield emblem being hard to get.

NOS GM BUICK GRILLE EMBLEM: eBay Motors (item 190403881806 end time Jun-16-10 16:51:11 PDT)

here was one for the regular full size cars(wildcat lasabre electra)

i would have anounced this auction earlier but i was trying to win it

I WON IT

now back to the main topic i did a search of old posts

here is some info on the emblem

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/70-electra-225-limited-front-bumper-169884.html

scott

Edited June 17, 2010 by pphil (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

wws- what ntx is saying is that once the stock of model and trim-specific emblems was used up, GM would substitute another part in its place and supersede the original part number. The part will fit and function as the original, it just may not look exactly the same. Better a not exactly correct Tri-Shield than nothing at all.

We Olds guys see this frequently in 1970s cars, along with instructions, for example, to remove an unneeded mounting pin for use on XX carline.

And I will still never understand the rhyme and reason of GM's part numbering system. The group # system is pretty straightforward, but the individual numbering has never really made sense to me. Ford's system is vastly superior.

[wws944]

wws- what ntx is saying is that once the stock of model and trim-specific emblems was used up, GM would substitute another part in its place and supersede the original part number. The part will fit and function as the original, it just may not look exactly the same. Better a not exactly correct Tri-Shield than nothing at all.

We Olds guys see this frequently in 1970s cars, along with instructions, for example, to remove an unneeded mounting pin for use on XX carline.

Understood. Thank goodness for used part recycling! I hate seeing rare parts go to the crusher.

And I will still never understand the rhyme and reason of GM's part numbering system. The group # system is pretty straightforward, but the individual numbering has never really made sense to me. Ford's system is vastly superior.

I don't understand it either. Especially when they use different part numbers for the (seemingly) identical part.

But again, my main curiosity is how many Limiteds were produced, and what the package actually included? The Bugle article did not mention the Limited version at all. I know it had the unique emblem on the front bumper and seem to recall the "Limited" badging appeared in other places around the car as well. (Rear quarter panels? Also on the instrument panel.) I also think it had nicer seat covering than the regular Electra. (Cloth in our car, not vinyl.)

[wws944]

NOS GM BUICK GRILLE EMBLEM: eBay Motors (item 190403881806 end time Jun-16-10 16:51:11 PDT)

here was one for the regular full size cars(wildcat lasabre electra)

i would have anounced this auction earlier but i was trying to win it

I WON IT

Sweet! What is it going on?

now back to the main topic i did a search of old posts

here is some info on the emblem

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/70-electra-225-limited-front-bumper-169884.html

Thank you for pointing it out. Yes, the Limited front emblem had black artwork on a white background. I seem to remember that on the rear quarter panels the chrome lettering said "ELECTRA LIMITED", rather than "ELECTRA 225". And also there was a different emblem on the dashboard. I think the main real difference between the Limited and the normal 225 was the nice cloth seating material. And maybe some things that were options on the 225 were included in the Limited?

[NTX5467]

GM's part numbering system has several different things that are included. The basic one is to identify a particular part. If there is a later or improved version which comes out later, that generates a different part number. If the vendor for the part is changed, that will also generate a different part number for the particular part. Or, in the supposed case of the 1970 Electra 225 Limited emblem, when the original stock might have been depleted, the "normal" Electra 225 emblem was used, although the normal E225 part number might not change itself, the one for the E225L would be superceded to the normal E225 item.

To the consumer, part number changes for parts which look identical might seem a waste of time, but they also provide "tracking information" on warranty repair orders (if applicable) and also ensure that dealership and depot stock are what they currently should be (rather than being loaded-up with the prior part number stock). The fact that the parts (with different part numbers) look identical means that they were all built to the same GM specs and standards, regardless of who made them for GM.

In prior times, each GM vehicle division had their own "chunk" of part numbers, as I mentioned previously. That way, a knowledgeable GM parts person could tell at a glance whether the particular part number was originally used on Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, or whatever. Back then, too, many of the carline divisions had their own respective parts warehouses. Therefore, they could tell if they had any "foreign" parts on the shelves. Parts boxes/containers also usually carried the division's logos on them, so there was no mistaking a genuine Cadillac part for a Chevrolet part. Later, all of these individual warehouses were consolidated into GM Parts Service Operations, yet particular warehouses still carried particular parts for particular vehicles . . . basically the "GM Partner Brands" or vehicles from these partners marketed under particular GM brands.

I concur that Ford's part numbering system is good . . . BUT you have to know how to read the code. Part of the part number includes a designation similar to GM's and Chrysler's group number. The first section is what vehicle the part was originally used/designed for. The second section is the group number, with the last section of letters being which revision the part number represents. Hence, the part number changes would only be in the last part of the part number rather than the complete part number itself.

Toyota and Nissan part numbers also have some code in them for part application, group, and such. By observation, which part of the part number is which seems to be reversed from one brand to the other.

For any of these part number systems to yield all of the information they hold, the parts person HAS to know what they are looking at and have enough product knowledge to know what the particular decode might be . . . rather than have to punch the VIN into the parts database to see what is what . . . or ask lots of unnecessary questions of the customer.

Decoding a later model VIN is worse than following part number changes! About each decade, the format of the VIN changes for one reason or another . . . including the model designation section.

Enjoy!

NTX5467