1941 Buick super eight HELP!! :)

[Guest n2010]

Hello I need some help. Hopefully someone nice out there will be able to direct me down the right path on solving this problem.

I have a 1941 Super Buick eight. straight eight duel carb. Now I have been looking all over the place on the internet and I am more baffel more than ever. On one site it says to look at the model number to be able to identify the series. And the car I have it says 45-19 I can not find this model number. Any one that help me would be much appricate. I have include some pics of the car.

Any websites that help me figure out this or your knowledge would be a great help.

[Guest wildcat465]

I look at the car, and it says to me model 51 being a Super 4 door. I look at the picture of the tag, I then say, I can't read Canadian. Maybe Derek can figure this out, he has a 41 Special 4 door with the super trimmings.

[jscheib]

Yep,

I think Derek and Dave Corbin when they get on can help with this.

For n2010, I trust you are in Canada, and we do know these Buicks (the tag as evidence)have a different numbering system then US made cars.

John

[Thriller]

Welcome n2010! An Oshawa-built '41 Super! That's exciting. These guys put me on too high a pedestal. I don't have any Canadian specific model information. Dave Corbin may have the information to decode it as he has visited the McLaughlin-Buick archives at Queens University in Kingston, ON.

There is an option though, but it costs about $50. Contact GM of Canada Archives at 888-467-6853 within Canada, 905-644-4060 or 905-644-3387 outside Canada, or fax 905-644-5436. Hours are 7:30-5 eastern time. You would want the serial number and all the information from the data plate (including paint / trim / etc.). They can decode the information and will send you a package about the car. They may not have precise information regarding options as the car is a bit older, but they would then likely send you a package of information about the 1941 Buick. For my '56 Special they did that, so I have all Canadian pricing as of a particular date for the the cars and options.

For the record, my model 41SE is an American car originally sold out of Rochester, MN and spent its life in that area until the previous owner brought it up to Winnipeg.

Good luck with the car and enjoy.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear n2010:

I can add a little to what Derek (Thriller) outlined for you. Your car is a true Canadian car, built at Oshawa with a Walkerville made engine (The W prefix on engine number tells us that.) Yours is the 607th car built (body sequence number) for 1941.

From 1908 to about 1936, GM of Canada (aka McLaughlin) used a sequence code that I managed to break well enough to be able to confirm exact year on those cars. However, McLaughlin went to the numbering system seen on your car in 1936 and I haven't been able to break that one down any better that Derek has done for you.

Sadly, GM of Canada has told me that they don't have exact records as to how many of each model were built each year, so I can't help you on that. The best I can do is to tell you that there were 3098 Buicks of all models built by GM of Canada in the 1941 model year. By comparision, Buick built 377,428 cars of which 57,361 plus 1271(for export to other than Canada) were model 51's. I have reasons to think that the ratio of a particular model to the total is about the same for Buick and McLaughlin. Based on this, 58,632/377,428 is about 15.5% and applying that to the 3098 gives us 481 cars that would be model 51's. Not exactly the quality of information that you would probably like to have, but sadly probably the best estimate anyone can make today.

It's a rare car by any measure and you should be proud of the Canadian automotive heritage it represents.

Regards, Dave Corbin

Edited March 2, 2010 by DaveCorbin (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Not to change topics too much, but Dave, while the product mix may be similar, I suspect there would have been a lower proportion of convertibles for the Canadian market seeing as we don't have as much sunny warmth in a year as much of the USA has. Of course, if GM of Canada was getting the convertibles from Flint back in the day, that may just throw a wrench into the numbers as well.

[Guest n2010]

Hi Guys,

First of I want to say thank you soooooo much. You have taught me a lot with what you have given me as well as a good laugh.

John, yes I am a true 100% Canadian eh! I was born and raised in Quebec and to this day still in Quebec. I am 1 hour from our capital city Ottawa, Ontario.

Paul (Wildcat) I didn't understand when you said "I look at the picture of the tag, I then say, I can't read Canadian" I thought to myself what does me mean he can't read Canadian until Dave and Derek explain about decoding and the numbering system then I fully understood what you meant. You made me smile.

Thank you Derek. And don't be bashful now. You gave me some great advice which I will follow threw. I knew I could find information from GM. I should of thought of googling "GM Archives". I feel rather silly since I work for Library and "Archives" Canada (aka LAC) and everyone has a Archives. I will be getting in contact with GM Archives it will be good to get this information to have a history about the 1941 Buick.

And a big thank you Dave. You touch my heart when you said proud of the Canadian automotive heritage it represents (Since I am around rare artifacts all day)You explained the tag and I have learnt a few new things. Like the body serial meaning the body sequence number. The engine is a Walkerville ("W" in the engine serial number. and I learnt about how many 1941 model 51 were built in Canada.

Now there is one thing I can not wrap my head around ( I still feel dumb on asking this but I have to because it is not computing and I hate when I can not understand something and I don't want you to think I'm a dumb dumb)and is the model. I know that wild cat said it look like a model 51. You mention in your stats all about the model 51 [i]"Based on this, 58,632/377,428 is about 15.5% and applying that to the 3098 gives us 481 cars that would be model 51's" So what I want to asked is my 1941 is it not a model 51 but a model 45right or is it a model 51? :s

I wish I listened more to my Dad when he bought the car in 1989 and what was so special. He never bought to many classics cars but the ones he did buy there was "something" about them and now I have to figure it out as well as I need to figure out 3 more cars that my mom has and one of them is a 1963 Buick LaSable with a Wildcat 410 motor and why there is a triangel bottle in it. I have the tags and serial number I will be enquiring this as well with GM Archives.

Once again thank you for taking your time and giving me this usefully information.

Nicole

[Glassesguy]

Very simply put McLaughlin used the U.S. Fisher Body Style numbers as their Model numbers. In this case 4519 breaks down to "4" for Buick "5" for series 50 (Super) "19" for four door touring sedan. It's interesting to view McLaughlin ads of the period using Model numbers vs. the U. S. names. It's great to see a "real" McLaughlin built car.

[Guest n2010]

Thank you Glassesguy ,

Man I feel silly I should just let you guys do the typing and get all my info before asking any more questions. Please give me more lol. This is so cool.

[Larry Schramm]

The triangle bottle had GM brand Opticlean windshield solvent concentrate. The bottles were glass for some time. The washer solvent was gone for sure by 1968. I think in the 80's you could buy it in plastic bottles.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear N2010:

A slight scolding from a friend you haven't met yet. There's an informal rule here on the Buick part of the Forum, which is: THE ONLY DUMB QUESTION IS THE ONE YOU NEED TO KNOW AND DIDN'T ASK!

Don't let the fact that you're a "newbie" deter you. All of us were younger and "newbies" at some point in the past. I'm now 70, a BCA member for 40 years, and a retired MIT graduate who rose to be the worldwide Manufacturing Engineering Manager of International Harvester. In other words, the head "How do you make that?" guy world-wide. I'm also a member of the Society of Automotive Historians.

Guess what? I'm still learning! I'm forever amazed at what our Forum members know about specific years or models. "Mr Earl's" knowledge of 1954's and "Old Tank's" on 1955's is probably unequalled anywhere. One of our other members knows more about 1941 and 1942 dual-carb jobs than any one else I've ever met. There's guys (and gals like Roberta) who have private libraries of manuals they can (and do) refer to to answer questions. Mine is what we call today "VIN numbers", 1939 Roadmasters (86 literature items) and 1938's with Self-Shifters (55 literature items, 6 of the 15 special tools needed to service) and parts books from 1953 back to 1908.

All that being said, "Fire away!!!!!"

Regards, Dave Corbin

Edited March 3, 2010 by DaveCorbin (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Bonjour Nicole,

I'm a CS with Health Canada out here in Winnipeg. I've been through the LAC storage facility here a couple of times when we were looking at backup tape storage.

Dave's calculation is based on the fact that we know the total Canadian production, but not by model. American production is known broken down by model. So, the model 51 (Super 4 door sedan) represents 15.5% of total US Buick production. Taking that percentage and applying it to the Canadian production total for 1941 gives an estimate for how many Canadian-built Super 4 doors were built.

That leads to a question for Dave, probably for a different thread. Since Canada joined WWII in 1939, was there a drop in Canadian production for those years before production ceased completely for the war effort? Documentation on this seems to be scarce.

[Guest n2010]

OK Dave I will ask my questions then

I read today that they cease production on cars from 1943 to 1945. Is that right?

Now on the tag it reads Oshawa Walkerville Regina now from what I read there were are 2 plants one in Oshawa (and the other in Quebec (I guess in Montreal) ?)Walkerville is where the motor was made but what is with Regina?

For Derek I am a GT in the scanning division it is going to be 9 years now. We have several buildings across Canada. I did a project last year for the Human Rights Museum which is being built in Manitoba (the website was launch on Dec 10, 2008)

[Larry Schramm]

There was an assembly plant in Ste. Therese, Quebec, but it was closed years ago. If my memory is right, the last vehicle assembled there was the Firebird and Camaro. I am guessing that it was closed in the mid 80's

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear n2010:

Production of cars (all GM makes) was 3099 in 1942, 0 in 1943, 0 in 1944, and 1822 in 1945.

However, the Canadians weren't exactly doing nothing for the King and Commonwealth, because it was TRUCKS, baby! In 1939, 13101 of them, but then things got ROLLING as follows: 1940 - 33488, 1941 - 72091, 1942 - 79871, 1943 - 61747, 1944 - 53395, 1945 - 44222, and back to normal 1946 - 20806 . If you total 1940 thru 1945, I make it 344814 trucks. That's a pretty darn good war effort by anyone's standard!

Regina was an assembly plant like Oshawa but probably smaller. Among others, Marquettes were produced there in 1930.

Regards, Dave Corbin

Edited March 5, 2010 by DaveCorbin (see edit history)

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Derek:

In regards to total GM of Canada car production, totals are as follows: 1937 - 64148, 1941 - 35873, 1946 - 30966, 1947 - 60542. As you can see, cars did drop off during 1940-41 and picked back up in 1946-47.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Thriller]

I know the Regina plant assembled Pontiacs as well.

[Guest Biomed]

New here, just bought a 41 4 door buick, but have yet to get it home to find out exactly what I've got. In regards to regina, I've got a 41 chev at home builkt in regina and I found out a little from that end, Apparently regina was open late 20's early 30's for a few years, then shut down until the late 30's opened again, then shut down in july of 41 never to open again

Rodger

[Guest Biomed]

finally got the 41 home and checked the ID tag yesterday. It reads

model 44-09, sn 1440900397, engine 3943051, body 169, trim 347, paint 147. it looks as though it was probably dark blue, it has the 248 with the single carb. any other canadian info would be greatly appreciated.

\

Thanks

Rodger

[Guest n2010]

Hi Rodger

congrats on your car. I was curious about your engine number does it have a letter in front of it and maybe you might need a new tread for your post so maybe Dave and Derrick might see it. Also is your car a big body or small? My 41 is a small body, duel carb 218 motor in it. The water pump is finish on it and I will be looking for one so when I sell thae car it will have one.

[Thriller]

Model 4409 should be a Special 4 door sedan, known as the Model 41. Paint code 147 is different than American cars. If nobody has Canadian books, you may need to spend the $50 to have GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services decode the numbers for you.

So, in shape, it should look like mine - the four door Jetback or Tourback styling.

Good luck getting the low-down on the car.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Dear n2010:

I can add a little to what Derek (Thriller) outlined for you. Your car is a true Canadian car, built at Oshawa with a Walkerville made engine (The W prefix on engine number tells us that.) Yours is the 607th car built (body sequence number) for 1941.

From 1908 to about 1936, GM of Canada (aka McLaughlin) used a sequence code that I managed to break well enough to be able to confirm exact year on those cars. However, McLaughlin went to the numbering system seen on your car in 1936 and I haven't been able to break that one down any better that Derek has done for you.

Sadly, GM of Canada has told me that they don't have exact records as to how many of each model were built each year, so I can't help you on that. The best I can do is to tell you that there were 3098 Buicks of all models built by GM of Canada in the 1941 model year. By comparision, Buick built 377,428 cars of which 57,361 plus 1271(for export to other than Canada) were model 51's. I have reasons to think that the ratio of a particular model to the total is about the same for Buick and McLaughlin. Based on this, 58,632/377,428 is about 15.5% and applying that to the 3098 gives us 481 cars that would be model 51's. Not exactly the quality of information that you would probably like to have, but sadly probably the best estimate anyone can make today.

It's a rare car by any measure and you should be proud of the Canadian automotive heritage it represents.

Regards, Dave Corbin

here is gm build 1908 to 1973

[Buicknutty]

Anyone know what became of this car?

Keith