Germany, 1912

[Povertycove]

Could anyone identify this car? My grandmother and aunts were visiting family in Germany in 1912.

[jdome]

I would venture to say that this is one of the ________-Talbot or Talbot-_________ that a number of European manufacturers assembled with Talbot components during that era and used Talbot in the name.

[jdome]

I should add that It could also be a Talbot. Early Talbots were 2-cylinder. This looks like it could be about 1906 or 07, 4-cylinder. These had 4 speed transmissions with 25 or 30 HP I believe. They were fast for such an early car.

[Povertycove]

Amazing -- I'll have to research Talbots. The little girl on the front seat -- my aunt -- became the internationally famous American fashion designer Vera Maxwell, who died in 1996 at age 95. Thanks for your help.

[nzcarnerd]

In 1912 this would have been quite an old car. Aspects of its styling suggest it dates from 1902 or 1903. Note it has a tubular chassis. The body is a rear entrance tonneau because it has a short chassis. The bonnet/hood is of the type with removeable panels top and side and can be removed as a whole. The steering arm is forward of the front axle. Note also that those big self generating lights are hanging out in front of the radiator. From the clothing styles I would have thought the date of the photo was much earlier than 1912.

[Vintman]

Hi,

I agree with Nzcarnerd that this is an earlier car than 1912 but not quite asearly as 1902. I also do not think it is a Talbot. Talbot were a British company. They were initially importing Clement Bayard cars from France to 1906. Clement Bayards either had a scuttle bonnet or had the humped radiator top. Talbots had humped rad tops thereafter. Not sure yet what this is and looking into?

Kind Regards

Vintman (UK)

Classic Cars, Veteran Cars and Vintage Cars - The Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society

[West Peterson]

I'm guessing 1904 Thomas.

[Vintman]

Hi Folks,

I circulated this enquiry to our wider circle of experts, and two came back with the same answer. Both think it is a Benz Persifal. This means that Nzecarnerd was correct in his dating as these were made only in 1902/3 (and poss up to 1905). Specific similarities pointed out to me are the spiralling louvers on the bonnet sides and the multi-lever arrangement under the steering wheel. Benz did have false bonnets for a while but not on this model. I also note the pointed skirt under the radiator which has shaped vertical slots across the face. The car was shaft drive. However, I have not been able to find a picture of a Parsifal with the radiator of the type on the enquiry picture. The front top face of the rad has a header section with a small badge. All photos I have show a plain rad with equidistant sides. Notwithstanding, it does have lots of Parsifal features.

Kind Regards

Vintman (UK)

Classic Cars, Veteran Cars and Vintage Cars - The Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society

[Vintman]

PS

Forgot to mention this is probably model 8/10 HP. I am guessing, but if this photo was taken in 1912 it is quite possible that the car may have had a more modern bonnet/radiator upgrade, which was quite common. In additional to a different rad, the enquiry photo had a radiator filler cap at the front, which Parsifal-s generally did not?

Vintman